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Thread: OC Distance from K-12 school grounds?

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    Hello, newbie question here. I recall reading somewhere that one cannot OC within 1000 foot radius of any school grounds. I do not recall if that was part of the statute in Virginia, or for a different state. I read the relevant VA statutes and I can't find any requirements that mention a distance? Just looking for some confirmation from you more seasoned OC folks who are well versed in these things.

    The reason I ask is that there's a school about 1 1/2 blocks away from my home (I can just barely see it, looking out one of my living room windows). It's definitely less than 1000 feet away from my front door. Just want to make sure I'm not committing a crime simply by walking out my front door while OC'ing.

    Thanks all.

    PS. I tried a forum search but today for some reason it's giving me an "Invalid SQL Query: SELECT" error and not returning any results.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    That's a federal law.

    [Your own] private property is exempt.

    CHP is a VIP status and also exempts within 1000'
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    milton.sheaf wrote:
    Just want to make sure I'm not committing a crime simply by walking out my front door while OC'ing.
    As I found out this week, you are, and so am I, and at least 1 other person I know of on this forum. Do what you will. :?
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    wylde007 wrote:
    That's a federal law.

    [Your own] private property is exempt.

    CHP is a VIP status and also exempts within 1000'
    Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I live in a condo building in urban North Arlington. I'm less than a mile from DC line, and less than a mile from the Pentagon. The minute I step out the door, I'm on a public sidewalk. Looks like I won't be OC'ing out the front door. Does this 1000 foot federal law apply to being inside a vehicle as well? I.e. does this federal law prohibit me from simply driving past this school while OC'ing inside my car? I don't have a CHP (yet) and I have to drive past this school to get to and from my building.

    Secondly, do you know how [your own] private property is defined in relation to a condominium building? Obviously I can OC inside of my unit which I own, but can I OC while walking around inside the rest of my condo building? For example, to walk downstairs and check the mailbox? Or to take the trash to the trash room? It's all inside the building. The common areas of the building (hallways, mail room, etc) are private property. But I don't own them. Also, the building itself is less than 1000 feet from the school, and obviously I don't own the entire building.


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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    (2)
    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    (iii) that is—
    (I) not loaded; and
    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18...2----000-.html

    I've been violating that law for about the last 6 months or so without knowing it...
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    This horrible law is a perpetual problem. It's almost like a law that makes breathing air illegal, as it is virtually impossible to not violate it and be a normal human being who happens to exercise their 2nd Amendment right to carry a gun. In any reasonably dense suburban area, it is literally impossible to navigate around town without driving within 1000' of school property.

    It's typically used as one of those "added on charges" for actual crimes that happen to be committed within 1000' of a school property.

    I am not a lawyer, but I have not heard or read of anyone ever being charged with just the single crime of carrying within 1000' of a school, and there is much conjecture that the law would not withstand judicial scrutiny. It's an excellent strategy for the LEO folks, as long as they don't ever actually try to use it (and get shot down), they have this huge hammer that they hold over everybody's head. Nobody wants to be that test case.

    TFred

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    Regular Member KaosDad's Avatar
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    OK, another dumb question. Please define "Loaded." Is that a loaded magazine in the firearm, or is that one round chambered?



    Thanks!
    "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." B. Franklin

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    IANAL: My interpretation would be no round chambered, magazine empty, or no mag in the gun. Mag loaded or unloaded if out of gun.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    KaosDad wrote:
    OK, another dumb question. Please define "Loaded." Is that a loaded magazine in the firearm, or is that one round chambered?



    Thanks!
    There are no dumb questions! Well..maybe some, but not this one.

    It is unclear and it depends on the law being cited, weapon and venue.

    The code defines a muzzle loader as being unloaded when the cap is removed. Some localities like Richmond, consider loaded anytime a cartridge is touching the gun (Like in a stock band)

    I am not aware of any hard core definition other than the federal version where all ammunition is removed and locked in a separate container. Maybe someone else has found a catchall.

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    Some States, like Georgia, have 1000' provisions prohibitions from Firearms form being within a1000' feet of any School, yes..., that includes post-Secondary Schools too, but some States do not have such Laws. However, 1000' Law is Federal Law, but some States do not incorporate it, or enforce it, into their own Laws.

    Virginia just prohibits Firearms from being on School-property, not with a 1000' of School, however.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    aadvark wrote:
    Virginia just prohibits Firearms from being on School-property, not with a 1000' of School, however.
    CHP may carry on property as long as they don't exist their vehicles.

    Too many "special" instances that do nothing except make it confusing and complicated for law-abiding citizens to navigate the law and the thoroughfares of the Commonwealth.

    None of them doing anything to improve the safety or security of anyone.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    wylde007 wrote:
    aadvark wrote:
    Virginia just prohibits Firearms from being on School-property, not with a 1000' of School, however.
    CHP may carry on property as long as they don't exist their vehicles.

    Too many "special" instances that do nothing except make it confusing and complicated for law-abiding citizens to navigate the law and the thoroughfares of the Commonwealth.

    None of them doing anything to improve the safety or security of anyone.
    You know I think almost all gun control laws give the gun an inherent persona of evil. Of course anyone who has any cognitive ability at all, and is honest enough to use it correctly, knows this is not the case.

    As a requirement for passing any gun legislation, we should make them substitute the words "rock" and/or "hammer" in place of "gun" and see if it still makes sense. If not, then toss it out.

    TFred


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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    wylde007 wrote:
    aadvark wrote:
    Virginia just prohibits Firearms from being on School-property, not with a 1000' of School, however.
    CHP may carry on property as long as they don't exist their vehicles.

    Too many "special" instances that do nothing except make it confusing and complicated for law-abiding citizens to navigate the law and the thoroughfares of the Commonwealth.

    None of them doing anything to improve the safety or security of anyone.
    You know I think almost all gun control laws give the gun an inherent persona of evil. Of course anyone who has any cognitive ability at all, and is honest enough to use it correctly, knows this is not the case.

    As a requirement for passing any gun legislation, we should make them substitute the words "rock" and/or "hammer" in place of "gun" and see if it still makes sense. If not, then toss it out.

    TFred
    I think George Carlin did something like that once.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Or automobile. Or cuisinart. Or quill pen.

    SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  15. #15
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    wylde007 wrote:
    aadvark wrote:
    Virginia just prohibits Firearms from being on School-property, not with a 1000' of School, however.
    CHP may carry on property as long as they don't exist their vehicles.

    Too many "special" instances that do nothing except make it confusing and complicated for law-abiding citizens to navigate the law and the thoroughfares of the Commonwealth.

    None of them doing anything to improve the safety or security of anyone.
    You know I think almost all gun control laws give the gun an inherent persona of evil. Of course anyone who has any cognitive ability at all, and is honest enough to use it correctly, knows this is not the case.

    As a requirement for passing any gun legislation, we should make them substitute the words "rock" and/or "hammer" in place of "gun" and see if it still makes sense. If not, then toss it out.

    TFred
    I think George Carlin did something like that once.
    Wonder if it's on YouTube!? I didn't really think of him as a Pro-2A kind of a guy...

    TFred

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    The GFSZA was declared unconstitutional once, the second version re-passed has yet to be challenged. If it ever is, I have no doubt it would also be found unconstitutional.

    simple terms:

    1000ft from whatever the heck is a "school zone" if you don't have a CHP, or simply stay off of school property if on foot if you have a CHP. Open, concealed, doesn't matter. If you're in a vehicle on school property you must have a CHP and it must stay concealed.

    As for the 1000ft rule, I don't think it's ever been enforced on anyone other than people who were already going down for other charges. Still, it's in the books and there's always the risk, no matter how small.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    nova wrote:
    As for the 1000ft rule, I don't think it's ever been enforced on anyone other than people who were already going down for other charges. Still, it's in the books and there's always the risk, no matter how small.
    Accessory charge.

    I doubt that, say, a Virginia Beach cop would give you any trouble over this, but a Fairfax patrolman might.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    wylde007 wrote:
    nova wrote:
    As for the 1000ft rule, I don't think it's ever been enforced on anyone other than people who were already going down for other charges. Still, it's in the books and there's always the risk, no matter how small.
    Accessory charge.

    I doubt that, say, a Virginia Beach cop would give you any trouble over this, but a Fairfax patrolman might.
    Naw.. they are good and well educated up here too.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    ed wrote:
    wylde007 wrote:
    nova wrote:
    As for the 1000ft rule, I don't think it's ever been enforced on anyone other than people who were already going down for other charges. Still, it's in the books and there's always the risk, no matter how small.
    Accessory charge.

    I doubt that, say, a Virginia Beach cop would give you any trouble over this, but a Fairfax patrolman might.
    Naw.. they are good and well educated up here too.
    I was about to say I was more worried about VB than Fairfax, but remembered it was Norfolk, not VB

  20. #20
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    nova wrote:
    but remembered it was Norfolk, not VB
    ^^^ That.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    wylde007 wrote:
    nova wrote:
    As for the 1000ft rule, I don't think it's ever been enforced on anyone other than people who were already going down for other charges. Still, it's in the books and there's always the risk, no matter how small.
    Accessory charge.

    I doubt that, say, a Virginia Beach cop would give you any trouble over this, but a Fairfax patrolman might.
    Fairfax? I've heard of it. Dunno if I've been there though. Must be one of those towns *outside* the beltway. I normally don't venture out that far.

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    milton.sheaf wrote:
    wylde007 wrote:
    nova wrote:
    As for the 1000ft rule, I don't think it's ever been enforced on anyone other than people who were already going down for other charges. Still, it's in the books and there's always the risk, no matter how small.
    Accessory charge.

    I doubt that, say, a Virginia Beach cop would give you any trouble over this, but a Fairfax patrolman might.
    Fairfax? I've heard of it. Dunno if I've been there though. Must be one of those towns *outside* the beltway. I normally don't venture out that far.
    haha about the only time I go inside the beltway is for the VCDL meetings in Annandale.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    The federal law clearly states that you are exempt from the so-called 1000' zone radius if you have been issued a "license" to carry a firearm.

    "(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;"


    Notice, it does NOT say you have to be carrying the "license".. only that you have been licensed to carry the weapon. There is nothing in Virginia code that adds anything to this that I could find for those off of school property. So you may carry your arm, open or concealed, as you take a walk around your neighborhood within the 1000' perimeter.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    nova wrote:
    milton.sheaf wrote:
    wylde007 wrote:
    nova wrote:
    As for the 1000ft rule, I don't think it's ever been enforced on anyone other than people who were already going down for other charges. Still, it's in the books and there's always the risk, no matter how small.
    Accessory charge.

    I doubt that, say, a Virginia Beach cop would give you any trouble over this, but a Fairfax patrolman might.
    Fairfax? I've heard of it. Dunno if I've been there though. Must be one of those towns *outside* the beltway. I normally don't venture out that far.
    haha about the only time I go inside the beltway is for the VCDL meetings in Annandale.
    Mornin' Nova. Question for you.

    Can you carry into the Patriot Center for non-school events when classes are not in session (concerts, graduations, etc.)? I was there last night and noticed that no one ran any wands over myself of my wife. So is this allowed there?

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    The federal law clearly states that you are exempt from the so-called 1000' zone radius if you have been issued a "license" to carry a firearm.

    "(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;"


    Notice, it does NOT say you have to be carrying the "license".. only that you have been licensed to carry the weapon. There is nothing in Virginia code that adds anything to this that I could find for those off of school property. So you may carry your arm, open or concealed, as you take a walk around your neighborhood within the 1000' perimeter.
    Is a concealed handgun permit a license to carry a firearm?

    Is there a gun license in the commonwealth of Virginia?

    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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