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Thread: Why do you guys leave an empty magazine in during UOC

  1. #1
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    Why do you guys leave an empty magazine in during UOC. I would think it would add to the draw time to drop the mag out. I guess someone could something in it.. like chewing gum or something to render the firearm useless. Is this why its general practice to leave a mag in?

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    It makes the bad guys think the handgun is loaded. Bad guys aren't going to rationalize "unloaded open carry".

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    There are a couple of reasons to carry a semi-auto witha mag in the well. Both have been touched on already...

    1) Maintain the illusion of a loaded weapon.

    2) Keeps the weapon clean.

    3) With a magazine in the well, it is a complete weapon- this makes it more difficult to argue that a concealed magazine is the concealed weapon under current case law.

    Reload drills make dropping a magazine a swift fluid movement taking no more time than slapping a full magazine into an already empty mag well. Please seevideofor an example.
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    If the time comes that you have to insert a loaded magazine, for defensive purposes, you have the empty magazine to show that you were legally carrying before the SHTF. I use a magazine that has never had a round in it, just in case it ever has to be tested.

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    I use a special magazine that is modified(broken), not to be able to hold ammo,and has reflective tape inside at the end for UOC purposes. So by partially pulling the slide back, you can see clearly no ammo is in it without having to remove the gun from the holster.

    This makes it impossible for a LEO to claim you had a round in that particular magazine. It also is painted /striped on the sides that would show in a video, identifying this special magazine if it is removed on camera for inspection.

    The rest of my magazines hold Federal Hydrashok .45 ammo, known as the "good stuff". The empty magazine keeps the kids from putting gum in it like they put under tables....LOL

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    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    I keep an empty mag in the mag well to keep debris from getting into the firearm while riding my motorcycle.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    Like oc4ever, my "in gun" magazine is gutted..no spring or follower.

    Simple matter of moments to drop it and load a "go to meetin' mag".

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    I used a function magazine, but it was a different color than the loaded ones. 3 SS and 1 matte black.

    This isn't to show I was legal before SHTF as much as it would be hard for an officer to lye during a detention that I had a loaded one in the gun if it was a different color than the loaded ones. I did this early on when we believed cops might try that argument. Fortunately they were far more honest than some of us gave them credit for.

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    Same as everyone above. I have been practicing the drills of unholstering, drop empty mag, insert loaded mag, rack slide. It sure is a bad drill. Sooner or later you'll get used to pushing the mag release when you pull your gun out of the holster. Then if one day we are allowed to carry loaded, you know what would happen if s*** hits the fan.

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    There is a somewhat infamous LEO incident regarding practicing ammo loading. I believe,but not sure, it was the Newhall CHP shootout where 4 officers were killed in the early 1970's.

    The CHP officers were range trained to put the expended shells in their shirt pocket in the academy so as to not make a mess at the range course. One or more of the dead officers in the shootout had emptied their gun and reloaded. The empty shells were in their pockets when they were found, causing precious seconds lost . The training was changed to drop the shells on the ground when reloading at the range from then on. The sad moral of the story is you will do what you have practiced in a stressful situation.

    Make each repetitive movement like it is the real thing without skipping any necessary steps. Unfortunately, this means using live ammo for a automatic(at a safe place to do it), to make sure the clip is completely inserted and the round chambers without jamming. You should be working towards the 2-3 second range from draw to ready/aimed. If you are not in the sub 5 second range consistently, you need to practice until the movements are automatic. Your life may depend on it. Like it has been pointed out before, unloaded guns don't do much good,when seconds matter, until they are ready for use.

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    Or as a safer practice maneuver, load all but the last 1 or 2 rounds with live ammo and fill the last 1 or 2 with snap caps. Make sure you paint them or make some kind of distinguishing mark so that you know they are safe for training but NOT safe for outside use. A bright neon red would be good. That way you can verify between each reload set that they are good to go: "without red, you're dead!".

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    Army wrote:
    Like oc4ever, my "in gun" magazine is gutted..no spring or follower.

    Simple matter of moments to drop it and load a "go to meetin' mag".
    I would glue a fishing weight into the bottom of the mag (inside) so that the mag falls out reliably.The faster it falls, the better off you are. Murphy's law states that it won’t stick until the SHTF.......

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    oc4ever wrote:
    There is a somewhat infamous LEO incident regarding practicing ammo loading. I believe,but not sure, it was the Newhall CHP shootout where 4 officers were killed in the early 1970's.

    The CHP officers were range trained to put the expended shells in their shirt pocket in the academy so as to not make a mess at the range course. One or more of the dead officers in the shootout had emptied their gun and reloaded. The empty shells were in their pockets when they were found, causing precious seconds lost . The training was changed to drop the shells on the ground when reloading at the range from then on. The sad moral of the story is you will do what you have practiced in a stressful situation.

    Make each repetitive movement like it is the real thing without skipping any necessary steps. Unfortunately, this means using live ammo for a automatic(at a safe place to do it), to make sure the clip is completely inserted and the round chambers without jamming. You should be working towards the 2-3 second range from draw to ready/aimed. If you are not in the sub 5 second range consistently, you need to practice until the movements are automatic. Your life may depend on it. Like it has been pointed out before, unloaded guns don't do much good,when seconds matter, until they are ready for use.
    That aspect of the Newhall shooting (pocketing spent brass) is HUGELY in dispute. However, the moral of the story is the same...train like you will fight.

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    OC in communist california is pointless without a loaded magazine

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    Mike In Reno wrote:
    OC in communist california is pointless without a loaded magazine
    So I guess what you are saying is, you'd rather go unarmed than carry a firearm and a couple of loaded mags with you. Your choice.


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    i dont have to worry about that problem, i escaped from CA

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    Mike In Reno wrote:
    OC in communist california is pointless without a loaded magazine
    I agree completely,without loaded magazines the pistol is just a paper weight.

    But I'm guess that isn't the point you are trying to make...I think your trying to say, 'Unloaded Open Carry is pointless'

    Although I quite probably agree with you on many of your views about "communist california" pleaseleave the disparaging comments about our state out of the discussion. I hate to be mr forum cop, but general 'group bashing' is against the forum rules. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html

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    Mike In Reno wrote:
    i dont have to worry about that problem, i escaped from CA
    Didn't they make that into a movie?

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    oc3068 wrote:
    Same as everyone above. I have been practicing the drills of unholstering, drop empty mag, insert loaded mag, rack slide. It sure is a bad drill. Sooner or later you'll get used to pushing the mag release when you pull your gun out of the holster. Then if one day we are allowed to carry loaded, you know what would happen if s*** hits the fan.
    When they allow loaded open carry, that is when you start to train differently.

    You start to run the pull, shoot, reload drills. You keep doing them until it becomes second nature. Youreprogram your muscle memory. It will probably take a few weeks, but it can be done.

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    The only time I have had to carry a gun like this was before I got my CPL in Michigan, and I was walking around state parks, where loaded OC outside from hunting was not something I could do.

    I carried my Sig racked back, with no magazine. This is the fastest way to load it from a draw. If Michigan was also stupid enough to disregard the constitution as far as California has, it would also facilitate a 12031 check with no drawing required.

    I am a firm believer in carrying this way when it has to be unloaded. Someones impressions of whether or not it's loaded don't mean much to me next to the ability to draw and have an aimed shot off in under a second.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Mike In Reno wrote:
    i dont have to worry about that problem, i* escaped from CA
    Yeah but Reno sucks. :P

  23. #23
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    Hey crash5150, Are you an undercover cop? Or a real open carrier? All open carriers follow the law. We don't like it but unloaded magazine for now.
    FREEDOM.

  24. #24
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    by the time it would take most to load, you would be dead....

  25. #25
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    Mike In Reno wrote:
    by the time it would take most to load, you would be dead....
    If you assume it's a fair fight, yes. But as my dad always said, "if you find yourself in a fair fight, your strategy sucks."

    The fact is that in many situations we will have some advance warning, and will load up from the safety of cover before engaging a target.

    Obviously our legislature is putting us at a strategic disadvantage here... so UOC is the best we have... for now.
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