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Why do you guys leave an empty magazine in during UOC

crash5150

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Jan 28, 2010
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Sacramento, CA
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Why do you guys leave an empty magazine in during UOC. I would think it would add to the draw time to drop the mag out. I guess someone could something in it.. like chewing gum or something to render the firearm useless. Is this why its general practice to leave a mag in?
 

ConditionThree

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May 22, 2006
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Shasta County, California, USA
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There are a couple of reasons to carry a semi-auto witha mag in the well. Both have been touched on already...

1) Maintain the illusion of a loaded weapon.

2) Keeps the weapon clean.

3) With a magazine in the well, it is a complete weapon- this makes it more difficult to argue that a concealed magazine is the concealed weapon under current case law.

Reload drills make dropping a magazine a swift fluid movement taking no more time than slapping a full magazine into an already empty mag well. Please seevideofor an example.
 

yelohamr

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Sep 30, 2009
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Vista, California, USA
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If the time comes that you have to insert a loaded magazine, for defensive purposes, you have the empty magazine to show that you were legally carrying before the SHTF. I use a magazine that has never had a round in it, just in case it ever has to be tested.
 

oc4ever

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I use a special magazine that is modified(broken), not to be able to hold ammo,and has reflective tape inside at the end for UOC purposes. So by partially pulling the slide back, you can see clearly no ammo is in it without having to remove the gun from the holster.

This makes it impossible for a LEO to claim you had a round in that particular magazine. It also is painted /striped on the sides that would show in a video, identifying this special magazine if it is removed on camera for inspection.

The rest of my magazines hold Federal Hydrashok .45 ammo, known as the "good stuff". The empty magazine keeps the kids from putting gum in it like they put under tables....LOL
 

Theseus

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Jul 6, 2008
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Lamma Island, HK
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I used a function magazine, but it was a different color than the loaded ones. 3 SS and 1 matte black.

This isn't to show I was legal before SHTF as much as it would be hard for an officer to lye during a detention that I had a loaded one in the gun if it was a different color than the loaded ones. I did this early on when we believed cops might try that argument. Fortunately they were far more honest than some of us gave them credit for.
 

oc3068

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Jan 26, 2010
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Los Angeles, California, USA
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Same as everyone above. I have been practicing the drills of unholstering, drop empty mag, insert loaded mag, rack slide. It sure is a bad drill. Sooner or later you'll get used to pushing the mag release when you pull your gun out of the holster. Then if one day we are allowed to carry loaded, you know what would happen if s*** hits the fan.
 

oc4ever

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There is a somewhat infamous LEO incident regarding practicing ammo loading. I believe,but not sure, it was the Newhall CHP shootout where 4 officers were killed in the early 1970's.

The CHP officers were range trained to put the expended shells in their shirt pocket in the academy so as to not make a mess at the range course. One or more of the dead officers in the shootout had emptied their gun and reloaded. The empty shells were in their pockets when they were found, causing precious seconds lost . The training was changed to drop the shells on the ground when reloading at the range from then on. The sad moral of the story is you will do what you have practiced in a stressful situation.

Make each repetitive movement like it is the real thing without skipping any necessary steps. Unfortunately, this means using live ammo for a automatic(at a safe place to do it), to make sure the clip is completely inserted and the round chambers without jamming. You should be working towards the 2-3 second range from draw to ready/aimed. If you are not in the sub 5 second range consistently, you need to practice until the movements are automatic. Your life may depend on it. Like it has been pointed out before, unloaded guns don't do much good,when seconds matter, until they are ready for use.
 

Hayashi Killian

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Jun 25, 2009
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San Diego, California, USA
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Or as a safer practice maneuver, load all but the last 1 or 2 rounds with live ammo and fill the last 1 or 2 with snap caps. Make sure you paint them or make some kind of distinguishing mark so that you know they are safe for training but NOT safe for outside use. A bright neon red would be good. That way you can verify between each reload set that they are good to go: "without red, you're dead!".
 

greg36f

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Army wrote:
Like oc4ever, my "in gun" magazine is gutted..no spring or follower.

Simple matter of moments to drop it and load a "go to meetin' mag".

I would glue a fishing weight into the bottom of the mag (inside) so that the mag falls out reliably.The faster it falls, the better off you are. Murphy's law states that it won’t stick until the SHTF.......
 

mjones

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Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
976
Location
Prescott, AZ
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oc4ever wrote:
There is a somewhat infamous LEO incident regarding practicing ammo loading. I believe,but not sure, it was the Newhall CHP shootout where 4 officers were killed in the early 1970's.

The CHP officers were range trained to put the expended shells in their shirt pocket in the academy so as to not make a mess at the range course. One or more of the dead officers in the shootout had emptied their gun and reloaded. The empty shells were in their pockets when they were found, causing precious seconds lost . The training was changed to drop the shells on the ground when reloading at the range from then on. The sad moral of the story is you will do what you have practiced in a stressful situation.

Make each repetitive movement like it is the real thing without skipping any necessary steps. Unfortunately, this means using live ammo for a automatic(at a safe place to do it), to make sure the clip is completely inserted and the round chambers without jamming. You should be working towards the 2-3 second range from draw to ready/aimed. If you are not in the sub 5 second range consistently, you need to practice until the movements are automatic. Your life may depend on it. Like it has been pointed out before, unloaded guns don't do much good,when seconds matter, until they are ready for use.
That aspect of the Newhall shooting (pocketing spent brass) is HUGELY in dispute. However, the moral of the story is the same...train like you will fight.
 

MudCamper

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Sep 17, 2007
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Sebastopol, California, USA
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Mike In Reno wrote:
OC in communist california is pointless without a loaded magazine
So I guess what you are saying is, you'd rather go unarmed than carry a firearm and a couple of loaded mags with you. Your choice.
 

mjones

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Jul 15, 2008
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Prescott, AZ
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Mike In Reno wrote:
OC in communist california is pointless without a loaded magazine

I agree completely,without loaded magazines the pistol is just a paper weight.

But I'm guess that isn't the point you are trying to make...I think your trying to say, 'Unloaded Open Carry is pointless'

Although I quite probably agree with you on many of your views about "communist california" pleaseleave the disparaging comments about our state out of the discussion. I hate to be mr forum cop, but general 'group bashing' is against the forum rules. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html
 

Decoligny

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Nov 29, 2007
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Rosamond, California, USA
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oc3068 wrote:
Same as everyone above. I have been practicing the drills of unholstering, drop empty mag, insert loaded mag, rack slide. It sure is a bad drill. Sooner or later you'll get used to pushing the mag release when you pull your gun out of the holster. Then if one day we are allowed to carry loaded, you know what would happen if s*** hits the fan.

When they allow loaded open carry, that is when you start to train differently.

You start to run the pull, shoot, reload drills. You keep doing them until it becomes second nature. Youreprogram your muscle memory. It will probably take a few weeks, but it can be done.
 
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