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Openly Carrying a Long Arm

office888

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CV67PAT wrote:
OC of a rifle is NOT an in compliance with the objectives of opencarry.org.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/37570.html
OpenCarry.org
"A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"

This seems like a more important objective than any moderator can talk about. Personally, he wasn't there, he didn't help plan it, he doesn't know what actually went on.

He's just trying to cover his ass in hopes that we won't have another "random guy in camo with a dayglo-orange tipped draco pistol" issue.

-Richard-
 
G

Guest

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office888 wrote:
CV67PAT wrote:
OC of a rifle is NOT an in compliance with the objectives of opencarry.org.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/37570.html
OpenCarry.org
"A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"

This seems like a more important objective than any moderator can talk about. Personally, he wasn't there, he didn't help plan it, he doesn't know what actually went on.

He's just trying to cover his ass in hopes that we won't have another "random guy in camo with a dayglo-orange tipped draco pistol" issue.

-Richard-
He's not just "any moderator". He is the co-founder of OpenCarry.org. This is his site.
 

office888

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Hartford, MI, ,
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CV67PAT wrote:
office888 wrote:
CV67PAT wrote:
OC of a rifle is NOT an in compliance with the objectives of opencarry.org.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/37570.html
OpenCarry.org
"A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"

This seems like a more important objective than any moderator can talk about. Personally, he wasn't there, he didn't help plan it, he doesn't know what actually went on.

He's just trying to cover his ass in hopes that we won't have another "random guy in camo with a dayglo-orange tipped draco pistol" issue.

-Richard-
He's not just "any moderator". He is the co-founder of OpenCarry.org. This is his site.
The part that matters, is it seems like he's not even trying to read between the lines of what actually went on. He's just trying to contain the negative media exposure.

Rifle OC was NOT a problem on this site, until the Kwiknru incident, and now this.

I've seen MANY successful rifle OC events in the past that brought open-carry into the light across the nation.

The young man in Arizona with his AR15 for example. He conducted himself VERY professionally, with no negative backlash, except what the lies the media tried to fabricate.

Honestly, I can't even see why this is a problem. This isn't the first time we've been harassed by the police, so why are we making a big deal out of it?

-Richard-
 

stainless1911

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Bailenforcer wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote: Do you really think I can't out draw you? My Browning Custom in an askins avenger would be drawn long before you even realized the threat. Before you could swing that long gun


Um, did it eve occor to you that he would probably be carrying at least one pistol as well?
 

Bailenforcer

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stainless1911 wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote: Do you really think I can't out draw you? My Browning Custom in an askins avenger would be drawn long before you even realized the threat. Before you could swing that long gun


Um, did it eve occor to you that he would probably be carrying at least one pistol as well?
I was trying to illustrate a point on Long gun carry only not other variables. He also could have 10 Ninjas covering his back. yes I am being slightly sarcastic.

If I was referring to his other weapons I would have stated such. Just like another who assumes incorretly that the mall shooter was just a wild eyed psychopath. Read the Police report and you will see the "Mall" shooter was there the day prior and the police had a hand grenade scare with a suspected hand grenade that the media forgot to tell us was in fact linked to the stupid punk. He was found to have as Most shooters do cased the place on several occasions prior to his eventual attack, and death.

My point stands and is backed by Police investigations that despite the medias claim some guy just popped and pulled a AK or other weapon out of a bodily orifice and went on a killing spree instead of finishing his gift shopping is a lase assumption.

Did you know most every mass murderer shooter was on what are classified as behavioral drugs like Prozac, Halcyon and Ritalin to name just a few in that class? These tid bits are also unreported by our media.

The idiots who do these crimes are not just people who suddenly flip out, they are mostly delusional people with a blood lust for some kind of self satisfying vengeance trip. So strapping a long Gun at a Dough Nut shop is useless against such a Psychopath, as we saw with the Washington State massacre of four Police Officers. Frankly having 5 guns still won't protect you against this kind of well thought out attack. Even in Detroit in the last few years a few CPL holders were killed and weren't even able to fight let alone pull their guns in robberies, where the gun men came in shooting. I could go on for pages of these examples our fine media fails to report. Just last week myself and two of Detroit's finest were going over this very issue of CPL holders shot down. I carry open and I carry concealed even when I open carry for obvious reasons I assume you would understand. So yes I would hope he had a hidden weapon because a "Mall" shooter isn't worried about their own death, just a body count statement.
 

office888

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Hartford, MI, ,
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Bailenforcer wrote:
stainless1911 wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote: Do you really think I can't out draw you? My Browning Custom in an askins avenger would be drawn long before you even realized the threat. Before you could swing that long gun


Um, did it eve occor to you that he would probably be carrying at least one pistol as well?
I was trying to illustrate a point on Long gun carry only not other variables. He also could have 10 Ninjas covering his back. yes I am being slightly sarcastic.

If I was referring to his other weapons I would have stated such. Just like another who assumes incorretly that the mall shooter was just a wild eyed psychopath. Read the Police report and you will see the "Mall" shooter was there the day prior and the police had a hand grenade scare with a suspected hand grenade that the media forgot to tell us was in fact linked to the stupid punk. He was found to have as Most shooters do cased the place on several occasions prior to his eventual attack, and death.

My point stands and is backed by Police investigations that despite the medias claim some guy just popped and pulled a AK or other weapon out of a bodily orifice and went on a killing spree instead of finishing his gift shopping is a lase assumption.

Did you know most every mass murderer shooter was on what are classified as behavioral drugs like Prozac, Halcyon and Ritalin to name just a few in that class? These tid bits are also unreported by our media.

The idiots who do these crimes are not just people who suddenly flip out, they are mostly delusional people with a blood lust for some kind of self satisfying vengeance trip. So strapping a long Gun at a Dough Nut shop is useless against such a Psychopath, as we saw with the Washington State massacre of four Police Officers. Frankly having 5 guns still won't protect you against this kind of well thought out attack. Even in Detroit in the last few years a few CPL holders were killed and weren't even able to fight let alone pull their guns in robberies, where the gun men came in shooting. I could go on for pages of these examples our fine media fails to report. Just last week myself and two of Detroit's finest were going over this very issue of CPL holders shot down. I carry open and I carry concealed even when I open carry for obvious reasons I assume you would understand. So yes I would hope he had a hidden weapon because a "Mall" shooter isn't worried about their own death, just a body count statement.
No matter what it comes down to, I would feel a lot more comfortable defending myself with a rifle than I would a pistol.

The 5.56mm NATO round is almost guaranteed to be a 1-shot stop at short ranges, delivering 1500 lbs of energy on target, and turning into a vicious debris of fragments inside the target.

In the Omaha Mall shooters case, he didn't even case the place. He walked in, stood by the entrance for a minute, walked out, came back with his rifle, snuck to the elevator, took the elevator to the top floor, and opened-fire the second the doors opened.

Event lasted 6 minutes before the shooter committed suicide.

You're damn right, in that situation, I would have wanted my AR15 on my back.

-Richard-
 

Bailenforcer

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office888 wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote:
We should all wear crash helmets because space junk might fall on us.
We all shouldn't carry guns because we'll never be in a situation where we would need them.

Bailenforcer wrote:
Do you really think the gun man potential didn't size up the situation first? OH PLEASE!
Yes actually. Most mall shooters are psychopaths that do NOT size up the situation first.

Bailenforcer wrote:
And him seeing some silly jerk with an AK strapped to his back there at lunch each day would have tipped him off whom to shoot first.
This is a very familiar debate.

It goes with "You shouldn't open-carry a handgun, because it just means the criminal will kill you first."

Bottom line, your argument to me was full of a lot of personal attacks, and I'm just not going to grace you with my opinion anymore.

-Richard-
Please don't try the Karl Marx argument from intimidation tactic on me. I never said what you try to imply, if we are going to have a "Honest" debate here, then be honest and not imply I said something I clearly didn't.

Most mass murderers are planned and not some idiot who suddenly pops his cork while shopping for Mommy. The infamous Mall shooter was proven by the Police investigation to be there on several planning occasions, but in fact was there the day prior where a grenade call went out for a found grenade just feet from the Bus stop. This was later confirmed to be his attempt to test police response time. This is according to the official investigation findings. Many of the mass shooting like Lubeys Cafe were well planned events, as well as the McDonalds massacre in San Ysidro CA. And lets not forget Columbine and Patrick Purdy to name a few. The Dept of Justice has studied many of these shootings and they differ with your contention they are "just Psychopaths" who suddenly freak out. I have spent years studying N.I.J. Studies and find a different view from the medias.

Oh and just so you know, I wasn't seeking your grace. I merely pointed out the wrong headed nature of thinking that carry of some long gun at Wendy's will promise your safety. It's wrong headed and maybe a few days walking the inner city streets of Detroit might show you this. I can name some neighborhoods I lived in if that helps. Might be an interesting experiment for you. Try Grey and Mack, or better yet Clark Park's area. I am sorry you think criticism is a personal attack, again you are in error like your theory that long guns at the Dairy Queen does us any good.

I beg to differ...

Oh and the dishonest claim that my argument is like the open carry will get you killed silliness, again never said such. I was open carry long before you left High School and I stand firm on the rights issue. My point is practicality and self defense. You have this tendency to distort what people say to justify hurt feelings. My issue and statements clearly are on a tactical argument, but you knew this.
 

PilotPTK

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I'm playing fill in Sargent at Arms for a moment..

The management of this website (opencarry.org) has requested that we not discuss long-gun OC here. Being that this website belongs to them (their private property, essentially) - I respectfully request that the long-gun topics be dropped.

Weather you agree, disagree or have no opinion on long gun carry, it is irrelevant here. We are in the home of another (while on this website) and we must respect their wishes.

Any discussion of long gun carry, plans for long gun carry events, etc should be taken off of this site from here on out.
 

Bailenforcer

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office888 wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote:
stainless1911 wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote: Do you really think I can't out draw you? My Browning Custom in an askins avenger would be drawn long before you even realized the threat. Before you could swing that long gun


Um, did it eve occor to you that he would probably be carrying at least one pistol as well?
I was trying to illustrate a point on Long gun carry only not other variables. He also could have 10 Ninjas covering his back. yes I am being slightly sarcastic.

If I was referring to his other weapons I would have stated such. Just like another who assumes incorretly that the mall shooter was just a wild eyed psychopath. Read the Police report and you will see the "Mall" shooter was there the day prior and the police had a hand grenade scare with a suspected hand grenade that the media forgot to tell us was in fact linked to the stupid punk. He was found to have as Most shooters do cased the place on several occasions prior to his eventual attack, and death.

My point stands and is backed by Police investigations that despite the medias claim some guy just popped and pulled a AK or other weapon out of a bodily orifice and went on a killing spree instead of finishing his gift shopping is a lase assumption.

Did you know most every mass murderer shooter was on what are classified as behavioral drugs like Prozac, Halcyon and Ritalin to name just a few in that class? These tid bits are also unreported by our media.

The idiots who do these crimes are not just people who suddenly flip out, they are mostly delusional people with a blood lust for some kind of self satisfying vengeance trip. So strapping a long Gun at a Dough Nut shop is useless against such a Psychopath, as we saw with the Washington State massacre of four Police Officers. Frankly having 5 guns still won't protect you against this kind of well thought out attack. Even in Detroit in the last few years a few CPL holders were killed and weren't even able to fight let alone pull their guns in robberies, where the gun men came in shooting. I could go on for pages of these examples our fine media fails to report. Just last week myself and two of Detroit's finest were going over this very issue of CPL holders shot down. I carry open and I carry concealed even when I open carry for obvious reasons I assume you would understand. So yes I would hope he had a hidden weapon because a "Mall" shooter isn't worried about their own death, just a body count statement.
No matter what it comes down to, I would feel a lot more comfortable defending myself with a rifle than I would a pistol.

The 5.56mm NATO round is almost guaranteed to be a 1-shot stop at short ranges, delivering 1500 lbs of energy on target, and turning into a vicious debris of fragments inside the target.

In the Omaha Mall shooters case, he didn't even case the place. He walked in, stood by the entrance for a minute, walked out, came back with his rifle, snuck to the elevator, took the elevator to the top floor, and opened-fire the second the doors opened.

Event lasted 6 minutes before the shooter committed suicide.

You're damn right, in that situation, I would have wanted my AR15 on my back.

-Richard-
wrong again you didn't read the official findings and this is why you kep claiming what the media claims. There was in FACT a grenade call the day before and the inert Grenade was later tied to the kid.

I agree that in a gun fight I would rather have my HK 51 than a 9mm, that's nit the issue I talked of. You keep deflecting the conversation.

The shooter (kid) didn't count ona cop being there did he now? Even the bst laid plans of mice and men.....
 

PilotPTK

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Oct 2, 2008
Messages
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MOC Charter Member - Shelby Township, Michigan, US
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I'm playing fill in Sargent at Arms for a moment..

The management of this website (opencarry.org) has requested that we not discuss long-gun OC here. Being that this website belongs to them (their private property, essentially) - I respectfully request that the long-gun topics be dropped.

Weather you agree, disagree or have no opinion on long gun carry, it is irrelevant here. We are in the home of another (while on this website) and we must respect their wishes.

Any discussion of long gun carry, plans for long gun carry events, etc should be taken off of this site from here on out.
 

stainless1911

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great, another "blood in the streets"argument. Guess we should all leave our handguns at home too.

AR/OC is a bit extreme, now. Just as handgun OC was a bit extreme 5 years ago. from both a civil rights, and a defensive standpoint, carrying an AR with a handgun is the way to go. A rifle cant settle all situations, neither can a handgun. There are different tools for different applications. Of course the people arent ready for AR carry, but you gotta start somewhere. This is something that needs to be done bit by bit. Personally, I would like to see handgun OC a lot more commonplace first, but Im not against AR OC. I keep hearing the same arguments about the AR, as I do from the CC crowd about OC, and the Anti crowd against guns as a whole.
 

PilotPTK

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Messages
199
Location
MOC Charter Member - Shelby Township, Michigan, US
imported post

I'm playing fill in Sargent at Arms for a moment..

The management of this website (opencarry.org) has requested that we not discuss long-gun OC here. Being that this website belongs to them (their private property, essentially) - I respectfully request that the long-gun topics be dropped.

Weather you agree, disagree or have no opinion on long gun carry, it is irrelevant here. We are in the home of another (while on this website) and we must respect their wishes.

Any discussion of long gun carry, plans for long gun carry events, etc should be taken off of this site from here on out.
 

stainless1911

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Davisburg, Michigan, United States
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great, another "blood in the streets"argument. Guess we should all leave our handguns at home too.

AR/OC is a bit extreme, now. Just as handgun OC was a bit extreme 5 years ago. from both a civil rights, and a defensive standpoint, carrying an AR with a handgun is the way to go. A rifle cant settle all situations, neither can a handgun. There are different tools for different applications. Of course the people arent ready for AR carry, but you gotta start somewhere. This is something that needs to be done bit by bit. Personally, I would like to see handgun OC a lot more commonplace first, but Im not against AR OC. I keep hearing the same arguments about the AR, as I do from the CC crowd about OC, and the Anti crowd against guns as a whole.
 

stainless1911

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If this isnt what they want, it needs to be talked out, so it can be avoided in the future, if thats what they wish. Or they might see a benifit.

Dont worry, I really dont see long gun OC as something that will take over, and/or dominate OCDO.

Let it be, it will run its course. Besides, How do you expect to protect the second, without honoring the first?
 

office888

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stainless1911 wrote:
OK, but iirc, Kimber has that registered as a pistol. I could be confused with another, so my bad if Im wrong.
His AK is pistol registered. His AR15 is a rifle.

-Richard-
 

PilotPTK

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I think that we can assume they are talking about "Michigan Pistols" just as much as they are true Rifles and Shotguns.

I'm truly not trying to be a pain in the ass, as I personally have nothing against long gun carry or the discussion of it.

The simple fact, however, is that we do not get a vote here on how Mike and John should run the site. It's their site, and they are free to enforce any rules that they would like to. Like any private property, the only right that we have is the right to leave.

I don't want to leave, and I highly doubt that anyone else does either. Assuming that, we need to respect the owners of this property and do as they request.
 
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