Hello, a few questions

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Hello everyone, I am new here, kinda. I have been visiting this site off and on for several months and have enjoyed reading all the articles and stories. I decided it was time for me to join as I have a couple questions. First a little about me, I am 20 years old, a Business major at Guildford Tech(which I am finding out is not so safe a school), and I am a Eagle Scout.

I have been doing a lot of reading and researching on here about whether I can open carry(under 21), get a ppp and want to try and bring everything together here in one place since most of the information is spread out several topics so as to make the information easier to find for me and anyone els in the 18-20 age group. One thing I have found out is that for someone like me who is under 21, the information can get confusing real fast depending on who you talk to, what website you are on, and then there is just trying to read the actual laws themselves. From what I have read on here is that anyone 18 and over can legally open carry a handgun as well as get a ppp in the state of NC, only difference is that the 18-20 group can only purchase a handgun in a private purchase or be gifted a handgun and not able to purchase from a FFL dealer. I want to make sure that all that is correct? I have had a hard time finding the exact laws that show all that so if someone could post a link for me I would appreciate it.

Before I open carry for the first time I want to make sure I have all my facts strait so I don't do anything wrong and have cops giving me a hard time, and if they do I have the proper information to let them know that is legal for someone under 21 to open carry so I don't get my gun taken and get either a ticket or put in jail. I think thats it for now. Thanks,

Jag

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What's a "ppp"? :?

OC is lawful for 18 and up. You must be 21 to apply for a CWP.

NC laws are confusing because you don't have preemption like Virginia. Do you want to contribute to the furthering of liberty in North Carolina? Encourage your state to adopt a preemption statute like Virginia's.

Bad cops are going to give you a hard time no matter how closely you follow the rules. To wit: Norfolk.

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PPP="Pistol Purchase Permit"

If you are under 21, getting a PPP can be difficult depending on your local sherrif. If you're going to buy a pistol from a relative (father, uncle, grandfather) then I'd suggest having them go in with you when you apply for the permit--having an older person with you will help ensure the Sherrif that you're legit, and not some thug trying to get around the "21 to buy from dealers" law...

Even if you DO have a PPP, you can't buy frm a dealer in NC. The regulation of dealer sales is regulated by the federal statutes (under "interstate commerce") and you MUST be 21 to buy from a dealer.

If you have a friend or relative who is in law enforcement, bringing them along when you apply for your PPP can help too...

Good luck.

Once you have your permit, OC laws are the same as for anyone over 21. The only thing that is different is purchasing it in the first place.

However, depending on the county you live in, or the specific city, and as much as I hate to admit this, depending on your RACE (The US is still a VERY racist place), you MAY be in for some "interesting" encounters with LEOs.

The idea of a young man wearing a firearm in public is just something that many citizen and copss CAN'T STAND, and they will make MWAG calls, and make up laws and intimidate you with GAttTotP charges. And if you are of an ethnicity other than white, or you have long hair, or you dress differently, or you have an old beater of a car, all these things can play into your experiences...

Know the law. Memorise it. Make printouts if you have to and carry them around.

Be polite, and know what's right.

Good luck!

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Dreamer wrote:

PPP="Pistol Purchase Permit"

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Ah. I couldn't rectify beyond "purchase permit" which gave me substantial hits calling them "handgun purchase permits".

It appears that a handgun purchase permit is only available to over-21 in NC. At least from the majority of Sheriffs office pages my Google-fu led me to.

Reading in the State Code leads me to believe that the minimum age is ordinanced locally. How very strange... and yet another good reason to lobby for a preemption statute.

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Local cities and counties CANNOT have ordinances regulating the sale and possession of firearms (and this would include the iissuance of HPP's in NC), due to the state's preemption laws. If anyone tells you that they HAVE such a law regulating the issuance of a HPP to be only for people 21 and over, they are either wrong, or their locality is in violation of State law...

The NC statute DOES NOT restrict the issuance of permits to people 21 or over. The only age that is defined in NC statutes with regards to age and firearms possession is when they define "minor" for the purpose of prohibiting a minor from possessing a firearm, and under NC law, a minor is defines as someone under 18.

Any local "regulation" that is more restrictive than that like requiring ou to be 21 to get a HPP) is arguably in violation of the state's preemption laws.

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I've only heard of a handful of under 21's getting a PPP. Mostly for inheritance or gifting purposes. Most Dept's probably go with the assumption the it's 21 to purchase an handgun and will only relent if you know what you are talking about. Or they are just ignorant of the non FFl purchase for under 21. Good luck. Remember that NC is a shall issue state on permits. You have to have a non qualifying issue to be denied, not just because I said so by LEO. Though they still try the I told you so bit.

issuance of permit

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-403.html

denial of permit

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-404.html

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jag06,

I missed the bit in your OP about being an Eagle Scout. I got my Eagle award in April 1982. I'm finding that there are a LOT of Eagle Scouts in the 2A movement and we tend to be very vocal advocates of both OC and CC. And Eagles usually are pretty good shots (from my experience). And we tend to keep our firearms REALLY clean too...

I dug around on the Guildford Co. Sheriffs office website, and from the download they have regarding HPP's, it says you must be 21. This may be their policy, but it is not the state law, NOR is it a federal law. Federal law only requires you to be 21 to purchase a handgun from an FFL dealer. For personal sales, federal (and NC state) law only requires you to be 18.

And NC's preemption laws say that counties or municipalites can't make laws or policies that are more restrictive than State law, so technically, the GCSO policy is illegal. But then again, you'll probably not make any "brownie points" with the Sheriff if you go in and try to argue the law with him...

Who were you planing to buy your pistol from? Is it a relative? Is it a well-known member of the community? Maybe youshould have them go in with you and see if the Sheriff will listen to reason. And maybe you might consider printing out the State and Federal statutes regarding personal sale transfers and legal possession of handguns for people under 21...

Oh, yeah, one more thing. I would STRONGLY suggest that you get your CHP as SOON as you can after your 21st birthday. Having a concealed permit makes travel in other states a LOT easier (NC has reciprocity with 30 other states!) and it makes carrying in your vehicle here in NC (and other places) much easier too...

Welcome, and I hope you get this sorted out.

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Dreamer wrote:

jag06,

I missed the bit in your OP about being an Eagle Scout. I got my Eagle award in April 1982. I'm finding that there are a LOT of Eagle Scouts in the 2A movement and we tend to be very vocal advocates of both OC and CC. And Eagles usually are pretty good shots (from my experience). And we tend to keep our firearms REALLY clean too... 

I dug around on the Guildford Co. Sheriffs office website, and from the download they have regarding HPP's, it says you must be 21. This may be their policy, but it is not the state law, NOR is it a federal law. Federal law only requires you to be 21 to purchase a handgun from an FFL dealer. For personal sales, federal (and NC state) law only requires you to be 18.

And NC's preemption laws say that counties or municipalites can't make laws or policies that are more restrictive than State law, so technically, the GCSO policy is illegal. But then again, you'll probably not make any "brownie points" with the Sheriff if you go in and try to argue the law with him...

Who were you planing to buy your pistol from? Is it a relative? Is it a well-known member of the community? Maybe youshould have them go in with you and see if the Sheriff will listen to reason. And maybe you might consider printing out the State and Federal statutes regarding personal sale transfers and legal possession of handguns for people under 21...

Oh, yeah, one more thing. I would STRONGLY suggest that you get your CHP as SOON as you can after your 21st birthday. Having a concealed permit makes travel in other states a LOT easier (NC has reciprocity with 30 other states!) and it makes carrying in your vehicle here in NC (and other places) much easier too...

Welcome, and I hope you get this sorted out.

Trail the Eagle, Trail the eagle,
Climbing all the time
First the Star and then the Life
With all you bosom shine
Keep Climbing
Blaze the trail and we will follow
Hark the eagle's Call
On Brothers on
Until we're eagles all!
​

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Aways pleased to meet a fellow Eagle! The nature of how you earn the Eagle rank makes most Eagles more vocal in many things including the 2a issues, we stand up for our rights and are leaders in our communities. We are not afraid to take charge and do what is right whether its popular or not. It was in my blood to be a Eagle, both my dad and my uncle were Eagles, although it was my choice to get it there was no way I was not. And your right about being good shots, I have been around guns all my life and love to target shoot with all types of guns. I have staffed at a BSA summer camp for 3 years getting ready to do my 4th working in shooting sports. My main job is on the shotgun range(were I am a NRA Distinguished Expert in the NRA marksmanship qualification course, have to hit 22 out of 25 clay targets 10 times), but because I do such a good job I am always getting bounced around the between shotgun, rifle, and pistol classes. I have even passed the NRA RSO certification, but because I am not 21 I dont get certified, but my boss had me take it anyway and I did pass, I out scored my boss though haha.


I would be getting the gun from my dad, he would be gifting it to me. And to clear it up we are in Forsyth county, but with school and scouts I spend 90% of my time in Guildford. I need to do some digging around the Forsyth county sheriffs office and see what I can find and see what my chances are so to speak. And yes I plan on getting my CHP as soon as I turn 21, problem is I turned 20 2 weeks ago so I have a year before I can get it. I have thought about going out to front site next year and taking some courses from them, I know they also offer a 30 state CHP course, not sure if that will happen though.

Part of the reason I am looking to start carrying now is that over the last year at school there as been some violence to pick up there. Just a week ago a girl was raped in the parking lot, there have been a couple robberies in the bathrooms on the same floor in the same building I had classes. I know I can not carry on school, though that is one law I would love to see changed because the most unsafe time I feel is on school walking the half mile from car to class and back. But the way the economy is and how many people are out of work, crime is going up and there are more and more desperate people out there. I want to be able to protect myself while I am running errands for my parents.

Thanks for the replys everyone, I am feeling more comfortable with this, at least that by NC law its legal, going and facing a sheriff is another matter haha. But as long as I know my rights and show that I know them I should good. Thanks for the links Jackson, I will look those over. Dreamer, I have seen where a lot of the members on here have a oc lunch or something, maybe we should do a Eagle Scout oc lunch some time? Thanks again everyone!

Jag

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jag06,

Here's your link:

http://www.forsythsheriff.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=27&Itemid=91

Wow... Forsyth Sheriff charges $39 for a HPP. That's obscene. Apparently, the Sheriff of Forsyth County doesn't want the "wrong types of people" (read: poor people or young people who don't make a lot of money) to legally purchase and own firearms. That's got to be one of the highest fees in the state!

Here in Washington NC (Beaufort County) they only charge $5 for a purchase permit...

Personally, I'd just wait until I turned 21, and then apply for a CHP. If you have a CHP in NC, you don't need a purchase permit to buy a handgun.

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Jag, pepper spray is legal on a college campus. Get a pocket size that you can hide in your hand if you need too. Fox labs makes some good stuff. If you have night classes a good flashlight can buy you time if you have to blind someone long enough to get some distance. ON the cheap side, the coleman max led's are good at walmart, about $25. A little more will get you a fenix, in the $50-$60 range, and they are solid. I have one coleman and 2 fenix lights. Get one with 100 plus lumens if you can, it will hurt to shine it in your eyes and disorient you. The gun is not the only thing you can defend yourself with. It's a great tool, but it's not bad to have more than one tool either.

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jag06 wrote:

Dreamer, I have seen where a lot of the members on here have a oc lunch or something, maybe we should do a Eagle Scout oc lunch some time?

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Maybe I can make it to the next Raleigh-area OC dinner. I think I've got my red "official" BSA jacket in the closet. It's got great big OA and NESA patches on the back...

It looks like we're having another OC dinner on the 27th in Jacksonville. That's a bit of a drive for you though. I mean, for me, it's almost 2 hours, so for you it would be 3 hours or more, one way. Probably not worth it for you.

But they have events in the Raleigh area every month or two. Keep you eye on the forum...

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Dreamer wrote:

The NC statute DOES NOT restrict the issuance of permits to people 21 or over. The only age that is defined in NC statutes with regards to age and firearms possession is when they define "minor" for the purpose of prohibiting a minor from possessing a firearm, and under NC law, a minor is defines as someone under 18.

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That is where the confusion comes in. I noticed it was not codified in the statutes, yet most of the Sheriffs office (most, not all) web pages claim they will only accept 21 and up.

So... do you have to have a permit to purchase a handgun/pistol from a private seller, too?

I'm not sure how I read your response, but that's almost what it sounds like. If so, that's rather fascist.

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wylde007 wrote:

Dreamer wrote:

The NC statute DOES NOT restrict the issuance of permits to people 21 or over. The only age that is defined in NC statutes with regards to age and firearms possession is when they define "minor" for the purpose of prohibiting a minor from possessing a firearm, and under NC law, a minor is defines as someone under 18.

Click to expand...

That is where the confusion comes in.  I noticed it was not codified in the statutes, yet most of the Sheriffs office (most, not all) web pages claim they will only accept 21 and up.

So... do you have to have a permit to purchase a handgun/pistol from a private seller, too?

I'm not sure how I read your response, but that's almost what it sounds like.  If so, that's rather fascist.

Click to expand...

A purchase permit or CCP is required to purchase legally from an FFL or private seller. The upside is that there is no other wait during the purchase from the FFL and it's a good way to know you are not selling to a prohibited person if it's a private sale. But some of the sheriff's don't understand the phrase "shall issue" and get really stupid with giving them out. Also you have to go to the sheriff's dept in my county. It's a 20 minute drive one way, so I bought 3 PPP then got my CCP. I guess it's better than some and worst than others.

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Thanks, CJ.

I read that a HPP is good for a period of five years, why would you need three of them? Or do you turn the permit over to whomever you purchase from and they resubmit it to the state?

I'm fuzzy on the process. VA eliminated the need for purchase permits some years ago and I only had to use one the one time, back in '98, I think.

NC, in my opinion, is a "fair" state on the carry and purchase ratings. Virginia is "good or better". If NC had a preemption similar to Virginia's I think it would vastly improve our collective ability to transit each others' states, especially since I have so much family in Carolina.

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One must be: 1. 18 years old, or older, fora Pistol Purchase Permit, BUT 2. In accordance with Federal Law, one has to be 21 to purchase a Pistol from a Federal Firearms Dealer.

However, under North Carolina Law: 1. You MUST havea Pistol Purchase Permit to transfer, recieve, etc., a Pistol, this even means that if it is given to you by your Parents or Family, 2. However, you may Open Carry that Pistol, provided a Pistol Permit is issued, in order for you to have it Legally, 3. REMEMBER a Pistol Permit is diffierent from a Concealed Carry Permit, but a Concealed Carry Permit sastisfies the conditions of having/owning a Pistol under North Carolina State Law.

North Carolina Statutes so citied:

Paragraph 1 Point 1- North Carolina General Statute GS Chapter 14 Article 52A 14-402 through 14-406, as is applied under the guise of North Carolina Preemption Statute 14-409.40, as is codified under the same: Chapter 14 Article 53B, and

Paragraph 1 Point 2- As is codified under Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 922(b)(1) through 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(3)..., and more specifically, the Paragraph of Purchase as is authorized under Federal Law that provides '... if the Firearm or [Ammunition wherefor] is other than a Shotgun/Rifle, that... the Purchaser... is [atleast] 21 years of age or older.' All of which pertains to Interstate Commerce... which is very important, and

Paragraph 2 Point 1- As is provided above under Paragraph 1 Point 1, and

Paragraph 2 Point 2- As is codified under Chapter 14 Article 35 of North Carolina State Law, under Code 14-269 one may not [C]arry a Concealed Handgun, unless: 1. The Person is on their own Premesis, or He has a Valid Concealed Handgun Permit in accordance with GS 14-415.24, or He is a Military Permittee/Government Offical. Violation of GS 14-269(a-1)is a: 1. Class 2 Misdemeanor, for the first offense, BUT 2. a Class I Felony for the second or subsequent time(s)..., thereafter, in accordance with North Carolina Law GS 14-269(c). Under North Carolina LawGS 14-269.7 it isUnlawful for a Minor to carry a Handgun. A Minor is defined as a Person: 1. Under 18 years of age GS 14-269.7(c)(2). There are close rangeexceptions, however. Therefore, no Law is broken aslong as: 1. You are 18, AND 2.You are not a Prohibted Person, AND 3. You are not in a Prohibited Place (Schools,Parades, State Property, Assemblies and Establishments, etc.-GS 14-269.2 through GS 14-277.2)

Paragraph 2 Point3- As above under Pargraph 2 Point 2, and more specifacally Pistol Permit LawChapter 14 Article 52A versus Chapter 14 Article 54B. These are'... two [different] animals', so to speak, and have different Laws governing them.

***There is, however, a close range exception to Open Carry versus Concealed Carry. One major factoris that each allows Local exceptions to State-wide Preemption.North Carolina State Law GS 14-409.40(f)/(Open Carry Law Preemption) versus North Carolina State LawGS 14-415.23/(Concealed Carry Preemption) have different/and similiar rules governing them. Here is an akward example: 1. Open Carry of a Hangun/Firearm, provided Paragraph 2 Point 2 is all true, in a Bank is LEGALin a Bank/Financial Institution, HOWEVER 2. Concealed Carry of Handgun in a Bank/Financial Institution is ILLEGAL per North Carolina Law GS 14-415.11(c). Likewise, and in similiar fashion: 1. Local Governments may place Open Carry bans on their Local (non-State) Buildings and (Local non-State) Parks under GS 14-409.40(f), OR 2. The same Government mayONLY opt to place Concealed Carry Bans on their Local (non-State) Buildings or Local (non-State) Parks per GS 14-415.23, as isauthorized under 14-415.11(c).Obstensibly, they may well place both bans in place, but this is not practice. Usually, the Local Ordinances, if any, are all optional, and when used, only apply to Open Carry or Concealed Carry, one or the other, rarely both..., unless of course you live in Chapel Hill***

P.S.: 1. GATTTOP (Going Armed to the Terror of The Public)is notmerely Open Carry, but rather Brandishing, AND 2. Personally, I hope The North Carolina Legislature repeals 14-269.3 and 14-277.2.

P.S.2: I heard a rumor that The North Carolina General Assembly is currently considering Legislation toREPEAL Pistol Purchaseing Permits, GS 14-402, BUT as of yet I am not able to confirm this as true. The session does not start until May.

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If they are charging $39, that had better include a background check. We have to pay $25 here for a background check. The NC statutes define the cost of a permit and it is $5.

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Here's the funny thing about this...

NICS checks through the FBI's computer system cost end-users (governenment, Lae Enforcement, and FFL dealers) NOTHING.

Let me repeat that for the hard-of-thinking. NICS checks don't cost ANYTHING. There is no fee assessed by the FBI or the Feds for running a NICs check. Any fee your sheriff charges is going STRAIGHT into the Sheriff's "kitty'. There is no subscription fee, no per-check fee, no fee of any kind. NICS checks are completely funded by the FBI's budget.

So the fee assessed by your Sheriff is payng for their time. It's only fair that they get paid for the time it takes to run a NICS check. But the process takes about 5 minutes. So if your sheriff charges $30 for a HPP, he's essentially charging you $6/minute for his time, or in hourly terms, $360/hr. :shock:

I don;t begrudge my loca Sheriff $5 to process a NICS check. I don't even begrudge him the fees for a CHP. But for a Sheriff to charge a fee that amounts to $360/hr to run a NICS check is practically criminal, usurious, and prohibitive to the point of verging on an "incorporation violation". I'd be rallying the citizens to vote in a new sheriff over there in Forscyth Co if I lived there.

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Our charge is for a county background check in addition to the criminal background check. We pay it to the courthouse. Nice thing about me is that since I lived in another county within the last five years, I also get to drive to Pitt county and pay them $25

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Thanks aadvark! Thats what I have been looking for.

I will look into the pepper spray jackson, but from time to time I hit myself with pam while making pancakes and thats when I have time to check if its pointing away from me, not sure how I would do in a hurry with pepper spray haha. I do carry a pocket knife with me at all times, not sure how much good it will do, but its better than nothing.

Thanks for the link dreamer, I see they not you must be 21, so I need to start printing some papers off if I want to go and talk with them.

Another question comes to mind, if I dont get a ppp and wait until I am 21 and just get a CHP like you suggest, is there any law preventing me from carrying one of my dads guns with his permission between now and then? I will more than likely try and get a ppp from the sheriff, being a Eagle Scout I like to take the path less traveled, would not be a eagle if I did not.

Raleigh is only 1.5 hours away, I will actually be heading that way for a paintball game this weekend, assuming the weather holds out. Might try and make one.

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There is no law preventing you from carrying your fathers gun. There is no law against possession of the firearm as long as you are legally allowed to do so. You do not have to OWN the weapon.