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Is it illegal to UOC in alcohol serving establishments?

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peewee612

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Jan 31, 2010
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Santa Clarita, California, USA
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It seems that establishments serving alcohol are avoided in general by the UOC community. Is this to avoid unneeded harassment or is there a law prohibiting UOC in such an establishment?
 
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CA_Libertarian

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Stanislaus County, California, USA
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peewee612 wrote:
It seems that establishments serving alcohol are avoided in general by the UOC community. Is this to avoid unneeded harassment or is there a law prohibiting UOC in such an establishment?
Click to expand...

Are we talking about ANY place serving alcohol? I know of many stories of outings at restaurants that happen to serve alcohol. I've personally organized 4 outings in such restaurants (tho to my knowledge nobody touched a drop).

Now, I have personally bellied up to a bar and had a beer (usually along with some food) on a couple occasions... and without so much as an eye batted over it. However, I generally avoid drinking at bars... just too expensive!
 
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peewee612

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Thanks. I don't have any intention of drinking, although I personally don't find anything inappropriate with it, I just don't want to be harassed anymore than what is "normally" expected.
 
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CA_Libertarian

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SouthBayr wrote:
Theseus wrote:
pullnshoot25 wrote:
It isn't a crime, but it is another instance where IDs can be pulled without PC.
Click to expand...
And how is that?
Click to expand...
If you are "carded" in an establishment while drinking, or in an establishment that is 21 or over you either half to provide proof of age "ID" or leave.
Click to expand...

You're right that the establishment has the right/obligation to refuse service if you don't prove you're of legal age to imbibe. However, Pullnshoot25 indicated it gave the police authority to ID you.

I too am curious if this is true. Any citation to PC or case law would be appreciated.
 
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dirtykoala

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Jan 27, 2009
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644
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CA_Libertarian wrote:
SouthBayr wrote:
Theseus wrote:
pullnshoot25 wrote:
It isn't a crime, but it is another instance where IDs can be pulled without PC.
Click to expand...
And how is that?
Click to expand...
If you are "carded" in an establishment while drinking, or in an establishment that is 21 or over you either half to provide proof of age "ID" or leave.
Click to expand...

You're right that the establishment has the right/obligation to refuse service if you don't prove you're of legal age to imbibe. However, Pullnshoot25 indicated it gave the police authority to ID you.

I too am curious if this is true. Any citation to PC or case law would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
i would assume that the burden of proof is on the leo, otherwise they could just go up to everyone and say "you smell like alcohol, give me ID"
 
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Cameron

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Jan 26, 2010
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San Ramon, California, , USA
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CA_Libertarian wrote:
SouthBayr wrote:
Theseus wrote:
pullnshoot25 wrote:
It isn't a crime, but it is another instance where IDs can be pulled without PC.
Click to expand...
And how is that?
Click to expand...
If you are "carded" in an establishment while drinking, or in an establishment that is 21 or over you either half to provide proof of age "ID" or leave.
Click to expand...

You're right that the establishment has the right/obligation to refuse service if you don't prove you're of legal age to imbibe. However, Pullnshoot25 indicated it gave the police authority to ID you.

I too am curious if this is true. Any citation to PC or case law would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

without quoting the laws (I'm at work, so I can't really look them up to readily). I believe that PC could be the LEO believing that you could be under the age of 21. Purchasing alcohol under 21 is illegal, so I suppose if you're one of us that could even potentially look under the age of 21 it would be rather easy for them to get ID. Likely under the same category of the assumption of using a fake id, though that would be jumping to conclusions. Other than that, I don't see how they could ask for ID.

I can only guess, but I believe that this is what pullnshoot25 was talking about.
 
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yelohamr

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Vista, California, USA
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I'm not sure about UOC but when I had a CCW, one of the "no go" places was any establishment whose primary revenue is the sale of alcohol. Liquor stores was okay IIRC.
 
C

CA_Libertarian

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Stanislaus County, California, USA
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yelohamr wrote:
I'm not sure about UOC but when I had a CCW, one of the "no go" places was any establishment whose primary revenue is the sale of alcohol. Liquor stores was okay IIRC.
Click to expand...

That's a common CCW misnomer. There is no law (to my knowlege)forbidding a CCWer from going to or even drinking at such an establishment.

I've heard that some counties put a bunch of "rules" about CCW on their applications. However, none of those are legally binding, unless they are also printed on the actual permit (per PC 12050). However, since you're at the mercy of the issuing authority, they could revoke your permit for not observing their "rules" (whether those rules are stated in advance or not - just ask ConditionThree).
 
Decoligny

Decoligny

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Nov 29, 2007
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Location
Rosamond, California, USA
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CA_Libertarian wrote:
yelohamr wrote:
I'm not sure about UOC but when I had a CCW, one of the "no go" places was any establishment whose primary revenue is the sale of alcohol. Liquor stores was okay IIRC.
Click to expand...

That's a common CCW misnomer. There is no law (to my knowlege)forbidding a CCWer from going to or even drinking at such an establishment.

I've heard that some counties put a bunch of "rules" about CCW on their applications. However, none of those are legally binding, unless they are also printed on the actual permit (per PC 12050). However, since you're at the mercy of the issuing authority, they could revoke your permit for not observing their "rules" (whether those rules are stated in advance or not - just ask ConditionThree).
Click to expand...
I beleive it is actually in the CCW application instructions that you agree not to carry in an establishemt that serves alcholol, While not a law, if caught, the issuing authority can use this as a reason to revoke,
 
S

SomeGuyInCali

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Jun 21, 2009
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111
Location
Modesto, CA, California, USA
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I am professionally involved in the nightlight and club and bar scene. Both as a security/bouncer and as musical entertainment. It is my experience that most non food serving establishments (alchohol only) do not allow firearms or knives into the building. This makes sense because of liability. Alcohol impairs ones judgment. My experience with people who are drunk are not terrible dangerous. I have taken countless patrons down without ever being hit in return. (We're talking years of working in this environment.) Someone who is even slightly intoxicated may not evaluate the use of deadly force properly. So club owners and bar managers tend to put policies in place ti simply avoid the entire situation.

I used to carry MK3 Pepper Gel but never once had to use it in the many years of service to the club.
 
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caskydiver

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Feb 5, 2010
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, ,
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South Bayr - love your logo!!! See my post about Starbucks in Walnut Creek rules!!
 
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CA_Libertarian

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SomeGuyInCali wrote:
I used to carry MK3 Pepper Gel but never once had to use it in the many years of service to the club.
Click to expand...
Bad idea to use gels/foams. I once took a course in the use of OC (that's Oleoresin Capsicum) sprays. The instructor told us that prisons stopped using them because the inmates started covering their face with their hands and then flinging the gel/foam back at the officers.

From my personal experience (roughly 5 ounces dispensed over the years), liquid spray works the best. Good range, soaks into clothing, and turns into a mist on contact (so blocking with your hands just creates a misty cloud). But, don't assume it will work, even with a direct hit. Rough estimates: 85% will stop; 10% will keep coming, 5% will need a first aid and a ride to the hospital (vomitting, allergic response, etc). So, be ready to drop your spray and wrestle with someone soaked in OC, or be ready to save their life.

(Disclaimer: IANAL. I am also not a scientist, your results may vary.)
 
Decoligny

Decoligny

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Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
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Location
Rosamond, California, USA
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CA_Libertarian wrote:
SomeGuyInCali wrote:
I used to carry MK3 Pepper Gel but never once had to use it in the many years of service to the club.
Click to expand...
Bad idea to use gels/foams. I once took a course in the use of OC (that's Oleoresin Capsicum) sprays. The instructor told us that prisons stopped using them because the inmates started covering their face with their hands and then flinging the gel/foam back at the officers.

From my personal experience (roughly 5 ounces dispensed over the years), liquid spray works the best. Good range, soaks into clothing, and turns into a mist on contact (so blocking with your hands just creates a misty cloud). But, don't assume it will work, even with a direct hit. Rough estimates: 85% will stop; 10% will keep coming, 5% will need a first aid and a ride to the hospital (vomitting, allergic response, etc). So, be ready to drop your spray and wrestle with someone soaked in OC, or be ready to save their life.

(Disclaimer: IANAL. I am also not a scientist, your results may vary.)
Click to expand...

I am among the 5%. I cannot use Pepper Spray for fear of getting some backspray.

I caught a miniscule amount on the breeze from someone being sprayed about half a block away, and my eyes swelled shut and I felt like my face was pressed into a pile of hot coals. Took about an hour before I was halfway normal again.
 
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