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OT: IRS is buying shotguns

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erps

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And I can't think of a reason they should need guns defensively or offensively as a tax 'agency
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I can't think of a reason why carpet layers might need a hammer to install carpets, but I'm not a carpet installer, so what would I know. Should we outfit law enforcement agencies using criteria of the fellows doing the job, or just pick some guy at random off the street to decide what equipment they need to do their job?
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

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erps wrote:
And I can't think of a reason they should need guns defensively or offensively as a tax 'agency
Click to expand...
I can't think of a reason why carpet layers might need a hammer to install carpets, but I'm not a carpet installer, so what would I know. Should we outfit law enforcement agencies using criteria of the fellows doing the job, or just pick some guy at random off the street to decide what equipment they need to do their job?
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Because they work for us, we should decide what they get to use for their job.

Can you think of a reason why a carpet layer would need a shotgun to lay carpet?

Edit to ad a funny story:
I did see an old man whose house we were working on try to use a shotgun to make a whole in top plates in a hard to reach spot for a plumber to feed a pipe through.
 
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erps

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But government agencies are not afforded these same natural rights,
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Certain Government agencies are authorized by law to carry weapons to conduct their duties. Law enforcement agencies are typically authorized to carry weapons because it's recognized that their very job puts them in a position to enforce a law that the law breaker does not agree with.
I am just glad to know that every single military person I know have spoken that if it every came to defending the government or the people and their unalienable rights they will side with the peoples.
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Do you have reason to believe that the other government workers feel differently? What was the number of shotguns the IRS purchased, 68 wasn't it? A standing army? I would bet money that there are individuals that own a bigger arsenal than that.
 
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erps

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Because they work for us, we should decide what they get to use for their job.
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You're absolutely right. I submit that the people have already decided that they can use shotguns to do their job.
 
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erps

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Can you think of a reason why a carpet layer would need a shotgun to lay carpet?
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Nope, but I can think of a reason why a carpet layer might need a shotgun for self defense. I bet if you try really hard, you can come up with a reason why the enforcement section of the IRS might need a shotgun too.
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

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erps wrote:
Because they work for us, we should decide what they get to use for their job.
Click to expand...
You're absolutely right. I submit that the people have already decided that they can use shotguns to do their job.
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We have? We decided the IRS can use guns? I missed that vote. (in jest) Seriously though this is the first I heard of it and I bet the majority of the people don't know this either. It just ads one more reason to "fear" the IRS. It's a shame.

I feel it cuts out one of those checks and balances out when they have their own Law Enforcement Agency and don't use the already existing Judiciary branch, which make some sort resemblance to what they are doing as legal.
 
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erps

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It just ads one more reason to "fear" the IRS. It's a shame.
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that's an individual fear. I don't fear firearms in the possession of honest people whether they work for a tire store or the parks department or the IRS.
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

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erps wrote:
It just ads one more reason to "fear" the IRS. It's a shame.
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that's an individual fear. I don't fear firearms in the possession of honest people whether they work for a tire store or the parks department or the IRS.
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I don't fear them in possession of "honest people" either.

But people fear the IRS, a government agency whether they as an "agency" are armed or not.
 
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erps

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have their own Law Enforcement Agency and don't use the already existing Judiciary branch, which make some sort resemblance to what they are doing as legal.
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I would speculate that the use of shotguns would come into play after the judiciary branch has been consulted and a search warrant issued to conduct a search on a bad guy. I would bet money that big time drug dealers also have IRS issues and it wouldn't surprise me if the IRS special agents conducted raids along with FBI and DEA agents.
 
compmanio365

compmanio365

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erps wrote:
have their own Law Enforcement Agency and don't use the already existing Judiciary branch, which make some sort resemblance to what they are doing as legal.
Click to expand...
I would speculate that the use of shotguns would come into play after the judiciary branch has been consulted and a search warrant issued to conduct a search on a bad guy. I would bet money that big time drug dealers also have IRS issues and it wouldn't surprise me if the IRS special agents conducted raids along with FBI and DEA agents.
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Is the IRS a law enforcement agency? Was it ever supposed to be? If there are laws being broken and someone needs to be arrested, there are many law enforcement agencies that can be contacted and warrants can be served by those sworn officers who take an oath to uphold the law. The "tax man" shouldn't have powers of arrest, and is not a sworn law enforcement official.....why do they need shotguns?

Erps, you seriously seem to have an issue with understanding the basic difference between PEOPLE, who have rights, and AGENCIES, that have none. The IRS was never tasked, by the people, to do what it is doing now. I'm doubly sure the people never said the IRS should have shotguns either......
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

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erps wrote:
have their own Law Enforcement Agency and don't use the already existing Judiciary branch, which make some sort resemblance to what they are doing as legal.
Click to expand...
I would speculate that the use of shotguns would come into play after the judiciary branch has been consulted and a search warrant issued to conduct a search on a bad guy. I would bet money that big time drug dealers also have IRS issues and it wouldn't surprise me if the IRS special agents conducted raids along with FBI and DEA agents.
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But they already have the FBI and DEA why do they need their own agency? I guess every agency should start an armed contingent imagine that .....L&I, unemployment, DHSH, City auditor, Building and Codes.

That brings it back to my response that every time they arm more gov. agency there is more likely to be tyranny going on and it can be close to a "standing army" that the founding fathers warned us about.
 
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erps

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But people fear the IRS, a government agency whether they as an "agency" are armed or not.
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especially drug dealers and tax cheats. Again, fear of government agencies is a personal fear, just like fear of armed citizens. I prefer to deal with articulable threats rather than emotional fears.
 
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brianstone1985

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ERPS= TROLL.

In nearly every reply of his on this site he antagonizes...

Don't feed him, just let him post his point of view and move on. Although it would be better if he came out altogether...He can hide in the closet as long as he needs to.

-Brian
 
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erps

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Erps, you seriously seem to have an issue with understanding the basic difference between PEOPLE, who have rights, and AGENCIES, that have none.
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Nope I understand that. I also understand that we issue law enforcement personel a weapon on the tax payer dime so that they can protect themselves. What I don't understand, is why you would deny someone that ability



The IRS was never tasked, by the people, to do what it is doing now. I'm doubly sure the people never said the IRS should have shotguns either......
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Well, let's do our homework then. I think I can probably fine a statute that authorizes IRS agents to make arrests and carry weapons to back up my statement. I won't bother to do the work if you're not willing to provide the same sort of evidence. Are you up to it?
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

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brianstone1985 wrote:
ERPS= TROLL.

In nearly every reply of his on this site he antagonizes...

Don't feed him, just let him post his point of view and move on. Although it would be better if he came out altogether...He can hide in the closet as long as he needs to.

-Brian
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I don't know brian I can see where you can come from here but he has also been reasonable. But you are right the circular argument, is not getting anywhere he will get it or he won't. Plus he is a public employee so his view is a little slanted on this.
 
compmanio365

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erps wrote:
But people fear the IRS, a government agency whether they as an "agency" are armed or not.
Click to expand...
especially drug dealers and tax cheats. Again, fear of government agencies is a personal fear, just like fear of armed citizens. I prefer to deal with articulable threats rather than emotional fears.
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Actually, fear of government agencies, especially ones that are self serving and do not answer directly to the people, is quite reasonable and is exactly the kind of thing the founding fathers warned us about. Arming that same self serving, unanswerable agency only furthers the reasonableness of the fear people have about it. By doing so, it adds to the "standing army" issue we were warned about so long ago......the DOL should not have an armory any more than the IRS should. Neither are tasked with enforcing the law or defending the populace. We have our own personal defense, and in the position of needing government involvement, the police and military for such things.
 
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erps

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But you are right the circular argument, is not getting anywhere he will get it or he won't. Plus he is a public employee so his view is a little slanted on this.
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I acknowlege a different perspective. SVG, this is the second time you accused me of making circular arguments. I had to go look it up the first time and didn't see that it applied and I don't see that it applies this time either. By my own bias I may be missing it tough. What is my circular argument?
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

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erps wrote:
Nope I understand that. I also understand that we issue law enforcement personel a weapon on the tax payer dime so that they can protect themselves. What I don't understand, is why you would deny someone that ability
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You may be on to something since the SCOTUS ruled you no longer have the duty to "serve and protect".
But that is just it too you are Law Enforcement, IRS is not.
 
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