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Thread: A message from SE Coordinator, MOC, Inc

  1. #1
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    I recently joined MOC, Inc. and quickly became a coordinator. As embarrassing as it is to know those we've referred to the site will see the current turmoil, I will not stop. All the arguing, name calling and people leaving only goes to prove we are no different and no better than those who oppose what we believe in. I think now is a time to look at ourselves individually. If we treat our own as we have how do we expect the public to treat us with respect. Differences of opinions have turned into all out bashing of individual persons and strayed from what should be healthy debates. I truly believe the only way to overcome all this negativity is with well planned and coordinated events to restrengthen our resolve and our image to both our members and the public. To leave now in my opinion accomplishes nothing, however to those leaving, I understand, and you leave with my greatest respect and appreciation in getting us this far. I gladly accept the challenge of carrying on and promoting why MOC, Inc was started.

    The objectives of Michigan Open Carry are:
    *To educate and desensitize the public and members of the law enforcement community about the legality of the open carry of a HANDGUN in public.

    *To exercise a natural right to self defense using the most efficient and common tool, a HANDGUN.

    *To demonstrate to the public at large that gun owners are one of the most lawful segments of society and they have nothing to fear from the lawful carry of a firearm.

    *To protect our right to self-defense.

    Methods to accomplish objectives are:

    *To distribute information via email, mail, telephone and in person to local law enforcement agencies.

    *To have periodic and informal gatherings in public places throughout the state while open carrying our handguns.

    *To contact the media, conduct interviews, relate pertinent information on the internet, write articles and letters to the editors all on the legality of open carry.

    *To participate in larger public events, festivals, car shows, etc., and staff an information booth about open carry.

    *To stay informed of and act against infringing legislation.

    *To always be ambassadors of good will in regards to the safe and lawful carry of a firearm.

    This last line I believe is the most important. To be ambassadors of good will. I believe it should apply to more than to just "in regards to firearms". I believe it needs to start in our respect to others.

    To those wanting to reach the ultimate goal of socially acceptable acknowledgement of our right to open carry, remember great leaders are very seldom recognized during times of harmony but rather are acknowledged for their actions in times of disorder.

    To those who are disheartened and contemplating their involvement with MOC, Inc. I ask that you stay, as I need your help and support. This is a task to great for one to fight alone. Your feelings of resentment and despair only show your level of personal commitment to the movement. The flurry of emotions recently expressed through many threads shows everyone's frustration with the current state of our group. More importantly I see it as proof that people care.

    To our leaders I ask you to stay steadfast in your efforts. Remember during any struggle some are lost, but their efforts never forgotten. Continue to lead those still here.

    I look forward to the next gathering in hopes we will all remember the feeling of dedication we had when we first joined in supporting open carry.

    Proud for all to see my involvement
    Scott Webb
    aka sprinklerguy28

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    Well said.

  3. #3
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Well said indeed!
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    woot woot

    Well said



    Devery

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    Great post and great words posted by a great person!

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    i dont know all the details on the reasons people are leaving nor do i know who they
    are but i do know that im here to stay , the above post is exactly why im here and im thankful to have found such a helpful and great group of people who feel the same that i do about our second amendment - CARRY ON !!

  7. #7
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    If I remain honest I will inevitably upset many. But my credibility is worth far more than superficial kudos and false friendships. Those who have know me for more than 20 or 30 years knows I am a man with ample compassion, yet a quick and deadly tongue when needed. I don’t hold back when criticism is needed.

    So here we go, hold on you’re your hats and buckle up.

    I see many well intentioned people here, some with passions that overwhelm their common sense at times. When I watch the encounters between Police and OC people I see a few things we need to change in my rarely humble opinion. Now this comes from confrontations with the Police and myself, my history of public debates and knowing many in Law Enforcement. I will comment on the OC to OC issues later in this post.

    Like it or not the Police are the garbage men and women of society, they most often arrive or are called long after a crime and basically clean up the mess. Politicians use the Law Enforcement community as their personal tools of manipulation. So for a Minute let’s quit being OC and let’s take a walk in another mans shoes.
    Police are attacked by the criminals, the victims for not doing enough or coming too late and often because the victims wait till it’s too late. The Police get crapped on basically by everyone in society today. So when a Man with a Gun call comes out all they know is this is a potential shootout or terror incident or worse. By the time they get their the adrenalin is flowing hot and heavy. We as OC need to understand this and learn to not meet the uniformed Police who all they know is there is a possible shootout awaiting them, and act as if we are NOT a threat and save the confrontational attitudes for later. Once the situation is assessed by the officers and we are acting as normal members of society, the Police will eventually come off the adrenalin rush and be able to speak to us one on one. Now a quick disclaimer: In no way will I ever tolerate or condone Police abuse of misconduct. But I realize these are human beings and they are under a lot of pressure that 99% of the OC People will never understand or see in their entire lifetime.

    Once the initial threat assessment proves they only have a misunderstanding then we as OC can arise to the higher moral ground and educate the Police, instead of confront them. I am well into my 50’s and have been a open and concealed advocate since age 18 when I had my first confrontation with the MSP back in the days when Open carry didn’t happen. The first event ended with a State Police officer shaking my 18 year old hand and actually apologize for making a misjudgment on myself and my intentions. Did I want to get in his face? Yes but it would have done myself no good and escalated things. He and I had an interesting conversation and he after knowing I was not a threat became quite friendly and very cordial. Things went well for me back then because I saved the attitude. My advice is for all OC advocates to rise to a higher moral plane when dealing with the Police and use the same attitude we use to educate the public at large. Please don’t send me endless replies of we do that, because I have watched countless videos and I see the attitudes flying. In every situation someone has to take the high moral ground and why not it be us? This is done with tact. Not blustering and not all attitude.
    Now before some decide to get attitude with me for telling them off, I am not. I am making a criticism based on the actions I see in the videos. Some of the OC people do quite well. Some don’t because they tend to have that attitude.

    I see the same attitude in the forums as well. Dare someone critique someone and all hell breaks loose. I don’t mean someone attacking someone and the other should sit on his or her hand either. Just measure your response. I am as evidenced by my posts not one to sit on my hands. But I try not to resort to the idiotic things like “you need to STFU” remarks I read today. These are crass at best, and dumb down the discussions. The silly sniping I see in here like making age related comments towards others, are unneeded as well. Youth has nothing to do with a valid point, nor does ones increased age make a point valid. I have seen many in here get quite silly about the dumbest things. If you have a point make it clear and succinct. There is a war on our Constitution and we are the last defense of the second amendment and we better act as such, or we alone can and will destroy our own cause.

    Last thought.
    We are fighting an uphill battle and the last thing we need to do is load things in our cart that are not needed at this point. Meaning I am all about 100% free carry, but to bring a AR 15 to an eatery is begging for negative attention at this point. Baby steps. Let’s get the public behind us as responsible gun rights advocates first. Lets worry about bringing your toys to lunch later. The last thing we need with a Hostile Feral Beast (Federal Government) is negative attention, they can use against us. We need to measure every action we take and every word we utter. Or we loose this fight.


    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Bailenforcer wrote:
    -snip-

    There is a war on our Constitution and we are the last defense of the second amendment and we better act as such, or we alone can and will destroy our own cause.

    Last thought.
    We are fighting an uphill battle and the last thing we need to do is load things in our cart that are not needed at this point. Meaning I am all about 100% free carry, but to bring a AR 15 to an eatery is begging for negative attention at this point. Baby steps. Let’s get the public behind us as responsible gun rights advocates first. Lets worry about bringing your toys to lunch later. The last thing we need with a Hostile Feral Beast (Federal Government) is negative attention, they can use against us. We need to measure every action we take and every word we utter. Or we loose this fight.

    Many here have said much the same things using different words and the response hasn't been......... shall we say... favorable?

    While I also support open carry for all arms I did notice the focus for MOC, according to it's own list of objectives, seems to be............ handguns.

    Now I am unclear as to exactly what constitutes an MOC "event". Are events scheduled by folks talking on the forum actual MOC "events" or just people deciding to get together?

    Frankly I am of the opinion that any event posted on the forum, whether officially sanctioned by MOC or not, will be looked upon by members, the public, the media, and LE, as an MOC "event". After all, the "movement" has become well known enough so that even an individual open carrying can be asked if they are part of "that open carry group". I know... I've been asked when out and about.

    I know for myself and Yooperlady... while we will continue to open carry in the respectful manner we always have and frequent the forum... until such time as things are ironed out we really are no longer interested in any "events".
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  9. #9
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    OC is legal no matter the tool.IMO we need to practice what we preach no matter the turmoil the PC folks go through.They're fears are unfounded and every time we OC we show there is nothing to fear from law abiding citizens who OC .OC is visual,CC is not.The citizens will never notice the law abiding exercise of 2A by those who CC,and therefore continue in they're unfounded fears.While OCer's show visualy that good citizens are safe and honorable.Just as citizens may feel safer when OCing LEO's are around,they will eventualy feel safer when the good citizens ,that OCer's are,walk among them.I believe this with all my heart!OCer's and LEO's are no different.Both are good citizens,concerned forthe welfare of the citizens lives they are there to protect! God Bless!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  10. #10
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    hamaneggs wrote:
    OC is legal no matter the tool.IMO we need to practice what we preach no matter the turmoil the PC folks go through.They're fears are unfounded and every time we OC we show there is nothing to fear from law abiding citizens who OC .OC is visual,CC is not.The citizens will never notice the law abiding exercise of 2A by those who CC,and therefore continue in they're unfounded fears.While OCer's show visualy that good citizens are safe and honorable.Just as citizens may feel safer when OCing LEO's are around,they will eventualy feel safer when the good citizens ,that OCer's are,walk among them.I believe this with all my heart!OCer's and LEO's are no different.Both are good citizens,concerned forthe welfare of the citizens lives they are there to protect! God Bless!
    NO matter what the manager should have been informed of long guns. It is pretty much common knowledge people carry hand Guns and long guns are the exception of the public knowledge base. Thus it would have been proper and responsible to advise the manager of someone showing up with a long gun so the manager could say yes or no to that part. It was deception by Omission pure and simple, and despicable as well as inexcusable to not inform said manager. Now we are all hurt by the negative press, and potential negative public perception.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  11. #11
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    Bailenforcer wrote:
    hamaneggs wrote:
    OC is legal no matter the tool.IMO we need to practice what we preach no matter the turmoil the PC folks go through.They're fears are unfounded and every time we OC we show there is nothing to fear from law abiding citizens who OC .OC is visual,CC is not.The citizens will never notice the law abiding exercise of 2A by those who CC,and therefore continue in they're unfounded fears.While OCer's show visualy that good citizens are safe and honorable.Just as citizens may feel safer when OCing LEO's are around,they will eventualy feel safer when the good citizens ,that OCer's are,walk among them.I believe this with all my heart!OCer's and LEO's are no different.Both are good citizens,concerned forthe welfare of the citizens lives they are there to protect! God Bless!
    NO matter what the manager should have been informed of long guns. It is pretty much common knowledge people carry hand Guns and long guns are the exception of the public knowledge base. Thus it would have been proper and responsible to advise the manager of someone showing up with a long gun so the manager could say yes or no to that part. It was deception by Omission pure and simple, and despicable as well as inexcusable to not inform said manager. Now we are all hurt by the negative press, and potential negative public perception.
    Not really deception. lil_freak_66 just didn't think about it when he got "clearence" from the manager. Don't be too hard on the lad. He's not allowed to possess firearms, by law, so he isn't all that familiar with what might occur at an event like this. Give him some time, and the planning & coordination of a few more of these type of events, and he'll get the hang of it.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    sprinklerguy28 wrote:
    *To exercise a natural right to self defense using the most efficient and common tool, a HANDGUN.
    As inefficient and obnoxious as long arm carry is, I have maintained since the very beginning that we should often endorse, and seldom practice long arm OC. My opinion is that that should say "firearm", not "handgun".

    18-20 year olds who can't find a seller of a pistol they want, or perhaps can't even get ammo, have no other choice but long arm OC. That alone merits endorsing the practice. As does the fact that they can be owned and carried without having them registered. It also can't be argued that long arm carry an incredible deterrent. Aside from that, it's a controversial topic.


    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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