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Thread: Man ruins open carry dinner meeting by bringing long gun into a Michigan Ponderosa

  1. #1
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    Looks like some guy decided to carry a long gun to a restaurant and disrupt a planned open carry dinner meeting - if were my restaurant I would have kicked the bunch out too - just where and how are you going to secure a rifle while eating dinner?

    Come on folks, we've said it before - open carry is about normalizing gun ownership through properly holstered open carry of handguns. Not scary carry of rifles which have inherent muzzle control problems and no trigger guard.

    --

    http://www.wilx.com/news/headlines/83486052.html

    SNIP

    LANSING -- Quite the scene developed outside Ponderosa Steakhouse in South Lansing this past Saturday afternoon.

    About seven men walked into the restaurant, packing guns -- open for all to see in holsters on their hips. A short while later, Lansing Police showed up to show the men out.

    if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']) document.write('');if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']){ document.write(plpm['Mid-Story Ad']);} else { if(self['plurp'] && plurp['97']){} else {document.write(''); } }if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']) document.write('');



    A verbal argument between the gun carriers and officers ensued, caught on camera by a bystander (the video can be viewed at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzPTi8heUTQ).

    "The open carriers were of course not happy, because they were minding their own business, doing a lawful activity," said Tyler Hilliker, a gun rights supporter who was at Ponderosa on Saturday.

    Under Michigan law, people with legally registered handguns can openly carry them in public. The men who walked into Ponderosa, in fact, were members of the Michigan Open Carry. They were holding a meeting to discuss precisely that right.

    Only thing is, private property owners can refuse them.

    "My analogy would be: If you come to my home, that's private property. I can decide who I want and my home and who not," said Teresa Szymanski, captain of the Lansing Police Department's South Precinct.

    Officials from Michigan Open Carry say the owner of Ponderosa greed to let them hold a meeting at the restaurant. But he says he didn't expect the meeting to be held on a busy Saturday -- and certainly didn't expect the men to bring more than handguns.

    "At first, we looked the other way on the handguns," said owner Dennis Holleran. "And then some gentleman shows up with an assault rifle, and that was just too far over the top."

  2. #2
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    Thank you for your common sense input into our Michigan Open Carry dilemma

  3. #3
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    Please lets not open this can of worms again, We are having enough problems here in MI as it is right now. We can`t get along with each other, And we sure as hell dont need a out of stater coming in our forum making even more of a problem. So please go away? I am trying to be nice, But I am trying to get MI back on track. So we don`t need to have salt poured into the wound.

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    Mike wrote:
    Looks like some guy decided to carry a long gun to a restaurant and disrupt a planned open carry dinner meeting - if were my restaurant I would have kicked the bunch out too - just where and how are you going to secure a rifle while eating dinner?

    Come on folks, we've said it before - open carry is about normalizing gun ownership through properly holstered open carry of handguns. Not scary carry of rifles which have inherent muzzle control problems and no trigger guard.

    --

    http://www.wilx.com/news/headlines/83486052.html

    SNIP

    LANSING -- Quite the scene developed outside Ponderosa Steakhouse in South Lansing this past Saturday afternoon.

    About seven men walked into the restaurant, packing guns -- open for all to see in holsters on their hips. A short while later, Lansing Police showed up to show the men out.

    if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']) document.write('');if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']){ document.write(plpm['Mid-Story Ad']);} else { if(self['plurp'] && plurp['97']){} else {document.write(''); } }if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']) document.write('');



    A verbal argument between the gun carriers and officers ensued, caught on camera by a bystander (the video can be viewed at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzPTi8heUTQ).

    "The open carriers were of course not happy, because they were minding their own business, doing a lawful activity," said Tyler Hilliker, a gun rights supporter who was at Ponderosa on Saturday.

    Under Michigan law, people with legally registered handguns can openly carry them in public. The men who walked into Ponderosa, in fact, were members of the Michigan Open Carry. They were holding a meeting to discuss precisely that right.

    Only thing is, private property owners can refuse them.

    "My analogy would be: If you come to my home, that's private property. I can decide who I want and my home and who not," said Teresa Szymanski, captain of the Lansing Police Department's South Precinct.

    Officials from Michigan Open Carry say the owner of Ponderosa greed to let them hold a meeting at the restaurant. But he says he didn't expect the meeting to be held on a busy Saturday -- and certainly didn't expect the men to bring more than handguns.

    "At first, we looked the other way on the handguns," said owner Dennis Holleran. "And then some gentleman shows up with an assault rifle, and that was just too far over the top."
    fixed link

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzPTi8heUTQ
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  5. #5
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    mastiff69 wrote:
    Thank you for your common sense input into our Michigan Open Carry dilemma
    +1

    Thank you Mike for stating the obvious for some of our 'members'.

    Please lets not open this can of worms again, We are having enough problems here in MI as it is right now. We can`t get along with each other, And we sure as hell dont need a out of stater coming in our forum making even more of a problem. So please go away? I am trying to be nice, But I am trying to get MI back on track. So we don`t need to have salt poured into the wound.
    Wally,

    Mike is not opening any can of worms. Mike is the co-founder of Open Carry.org. It is blatantly obvious that the owners of this site and forum, who are also the fathers of the open carry movement, disapprove of this method of open carry.

    This should serve as a warning that OCDO does not condone or endorse this form of carry, and I think it is safe to say that Michigan Open Carry also feels the same way.

  6. #6
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    Mike wrote:
    Looks like some guy decided to carry a long gun to a restaurant and disrupt a planned open carry dinner meeting - if were my restaurant I would have kicked the bunch out too - just where and how are you going to secure a rifle while eating dinner?

    Come on folks, we've said it before - open carry is about normalizing gun ownership through properly holstered open carry of handguns. Not scary carry of rifles which have inherent muzzle control problems and no trigger guard.

    --

    http://www.wilx.com/news/headlines/83486052.html

    SNIP

    LANSING -- Quite the scene developed outside Ponderosa Steakhouse in South Lansing this past Saturday afternoon.

    About seven men walked into the restaurant, packing guns -- open for all to see in holsters on their hips. A short while later, Lansing Police showed up to show the men out.

    if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']) document.write('');if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']){ document.write(plpm['Mid-Story Ad']);} else { if(self['plurp'] && plurp['97']){} else {document.write(''); } }if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']) document.write('');



    A verbal argument between the gun carriers and officers ensued, caught on camera by a bystander (the video can be viewed at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzPTi8heUTQ).

    "The open carriers were of course not happy, because they were minding their own business, doing a lawful activity," said Tyler Hilliker, a gun rights supporter who was at Ponderosa on Saturday.

    Under Michigan law, people with legally registered handguns can openly carry them in public. The men who walked into Ponderosa, in fact, were members of the Michigan Open Carry. They were holding a meeting to discuss precisely that right.

    Only thing is, private property owners can refuse them.

    "My analogy would be: If you come to my home, that's private property. I can decide who I want and my home and who not," said Teresa Szymanski, captain of the Lansing Police Department's South Precinct.

    Officials from Michigan Open Carry say the owner of Ponderosa greed to let them hold a meeting at the restaurant. But he says he didn't expect the meeting to be held on a busy Saturday -- and certainly didn't expect the men to bring more than handguns.

    "At first, we looked the other way on the handguns," said owner Dennis Holleran. "And then some gentleman shows up with an assault rifle, and that was just too far over the top."
    I have a long history of support of carry both open and concealed and I would have told the man with the long gun to leave as well. There is a time and place for everything, and rubbing the managers face in sh*t, per se' after they were given the green light was over the top. Some people have their own agenda at heart and don't vcare what damage they do to others.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    .
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 10:09 PM.

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    ,
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 10:09 PM.

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    You surely must see the irony. You are making the exact same argument about long arm open carry that the anti-gun folks make about pistol open carry.

    It is to scary.
    It just "isn't right".
    It is paranoid.
    Who needs a long arm? That is just over doing it.
    It might scare the children.

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    Whats the problem? No difference that the stooge who painted his AK orange tip and went to the state park Rambo style.

    Ain't it his "right" to bring his rifle?


    "open carry is about normalizing gun ownership..."
    I thought we decided to hell with that so long as it isn't illegal?

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    .
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 10:10 PM.

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    Apparently, you also missed KG's post where he said that he went with every intention of meeting the private property owner's wishes; he said that had the manager aproached him and asked him to leave his rifle in his vehicle, he would have done so. Instead, the coward called the police.

    Also, so what if he is one of the founders? Apparently only the open carry of pistols is ok by him. So your right to carry a rifle is non-existent in his mind. Before you go posting, saying that I am some type of extremist, check my posts (although few), which I believe to be quite moderate.

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    I knew that MOC, Inc. was a "hangun only" organization, as it is clearly posted in their mission statement on its website. I was not aware that OCDO had a similar restriction. I had looked throughout here to ascertain it there was any position. I have seen numerous posts throughout the states areas referring to OC of rifles without admonishment for doing so. I see now that, based on Mike's starting of this thread that OC of a rifle is not condoned by OCDO either.

    Thank you Mike for informing us of this.

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    jfrenchudm wrote:
    Apparently, you also missed KG's post where he said that he went with every intention of meeting the private property owner's wishes; he said that had the manager aproached him and asked him to leave his rifle in his vehicle, he would have done so. Instead, the coward called the police.

    Also, so what if he is one of the founders? Apparently only the open carry of pistols is ok by him. So your right to carry a rifle is non-existent in his mind. Before you go posting, saying that I am some type of extremist, check my posts (although few), which I believe to be quite moderate.
    Coward?
    No is they wanted to bring long guns it would be proper and pure common sense to do so and not blind side someone who just showed you support. It was a stupid move and not well thought out and hurt all of us. If I ask for a OC lunch gathering and the manager understand it's holstered handguns then I do just that, and not push the issue with more than I asked for. We have a social responsibility to be up front and not be deceptive.

    As much as I agre with carry this one was not well thought out and not the mangers fault. What is agreed on is agreed on and they should have been warned of long guns.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    jfrenchudm wrote:
    Apparently, you also missed KG's post where he said that he went with every intention of meeting the private property owner's wishes; he said that had the manager aproached him and asked him to leave his rifle in his vehicle, he would have done so. Instead, the coward called the police.

    Also, so what if he is one of the founders? Apparently only the open carry of pistols is ok by him. So your right to carry a rifle is non-existent in his mind. Before you go posting, saying that I am some type of extremist, check my posts (although few), which I believe to be quite moderate.
    Extreme is to agree on "A" then try and push "XYZ" that was never discussed.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    tagged...
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Who was guarding Lansing while every donut-muncher on duty was hanging our spectating at the restaurant smoking and joking?














    .

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  19. #19
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    Do people here really miss the point, or are they refusing to see the logic here?

    When I knowingly agree to an event which covers open carry of hand guns, I don't BLINDSIDE they manager who's is risking their job and business to support us or me.
    This is idiotic and poor thinking at the least.

    Now if I asked the Manager for member of the Michigan AR-15 carry club to some there and said manager fully understands we will show up with AR-15's strapped to us them yes the manger would be an idiot.

    To omit this information about long guns knowing the manager expected to only see holstered handguns is being dishonest. A lie by omission is still a lie. It made the manager look like a fool, and everyone who was part of the event. Why do people try and defend such dishonesty?

    Why is this so hard for some to grasp?
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Rugerp345 wrote:
    Who was guarding Lansing while every donut-muncher on duty was hanging our spectating at the restaurant smoking and joking?
    LEO bashing? Really?

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    I recall no discussion during the planning for the event at the Lansing Ponderosa regarding the types of weapons that had been cleared by the property owner. I therefore see no reason why you consider KG's actions as intentionally blindsiding the manager. As far as I understand it, he had nothing to do with the talks with the manager. Also, as noted before, he stated that he would willingly lock his long gun in the vehicle if the manager had asked him to. Furthermore, yes, I believe the manager to be a coward, because he lacked the intestinal fortitude to confront a person individually, and instead called the police, just like the sheep would.

  22. #22
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    the weapons to be expected was not discussed,it was not previously thought to be an issue.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  23. #23
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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    the weapons to be expected was not discussed,it was not previously thought to be an issue.
    I was young many centuries ago. I was also naive and I still hate to admit this. But one must be very forward when dealing with people and next time you should try and be as upfront as you can. Mistakes happen, this is how we learn. Only a man will admit this. You seem like a good kid and yes compared to my age you are a kid. Try and remember everything you do is being watched, by many. I first thought it was an adult who did this. It's far more forgivable and understandable noting your age. But we learn as we go in life, and being honest and preemptive will help you in this venture. I hope you find a suitable hand gun so you can OC.

    You implies not just you but all of us.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  24. #24
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    I think that everyone here needs to read the OpenCarry.org Forum Rules again, maybe three times.

    I say this because OpenCarry.org may decide that we here in Michigan can't control ourselves enough to follow their simple guidelines. OpenCarry.org could remove posts, delete users, or whatever.

    This is their site not MOC's or anyone elses here in Michigan.

    We are their Guests and must abide by their rules whether or not we like them.

    I'll go back to lurking again. Posting here has become distasteful.

    Mel




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    Sorry mel

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