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Thread: Israelis Have it right on gun rights

  1. #1
    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    This article was sent to me by Squeak.It's pretty self explanitory...








    Israelis Baffled by News of Defenseless US Soldiers




    Many Israelis want to know: why didn't the soldiers attacked by a U.S. Army major-turned-terrorist return fire?

    If a Muslim goes to Israel he is typically shot to death by someone--say, a reserve soldier--within seconds of screaming "Allah Akbar."

    In contrast with the Israeli experience, it took 10 minutes before a civilian police officer at Fort Hood was able to shoot and stop Muslim fanatic Nidal Malik Hasan.

    How could that happen? How could so many people trained in the strategies and tactics of modern warfare be so defenseless?

    The answer--and this may astonish many Americans--is that the victims were unarmed. U.S. Soldiers are not allowed to carry guns for personal protection, even on a 340-acre base quartering more than 50,000 troops.

    So it goes in brain-dead, liberal America .

    Fort Hoodis a "gun free" zone, thanks to regulations adopted in one of the very first acts signed into law by anti-gun President Bill Clinton in March, 1993.Click here<http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r190_14.pdf>for the file.

    Contrary to President Obama's crocodile tears, his administration is bent on further disarming the U.S. .. Military, and all Americans. Obama and his people will not rest until every American is a sitting duck..




    PostScript: Israeli teachers, from kindergarten on up, are also armed; so, a Virginia Tech-type slaughter is highly unlikely at an Israeli university.

    Israelis, who have had to combat terrorism all their lives, are not afraid of guns. They are an armed people, ready, willing, and able to defend themselves and their country.

    Unlike indoctrinated Americans, paralyzed by fear and political correctness, Israelis understand that people, not guns, kill people.



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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Israeli female soldiers shopping in PX

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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    What can one say about this...
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "A government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." -- Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App.181)

    A 1911 that works properly is as rare as a Glock that doesn't.

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    DEROS72 wrote:
    Israelis, who have had to combat terrorism all their lives
    <snip>
    Unlike indoctrinated Americans, paralyzed by fear and political correctness, Israelis understand that people, not guns, kill people.
    OMG political correctness! Teh scary! :what:

    Nothing further... :?

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    DEROS72 wrote:
    Israeli female soldiers shopping in PX
    Israeli girls are so cute

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    We here in the US won't see it quite like the Israeli's until over 6 million of us are exterminated by a whacko dictator and forced to live in a country where every neighbor within rocket/artillery range is dedicated to your elimination. Every day in Israel is a day of vigilance and preparedness. We here in the US suffer from historical amnesia. We forget the times we were attacked, who attacked us, and who hates us to the point of wanting US eliminated. We go about our daily lives in a state of bliss (or with our heads up our collective butts) and won't do anything until we are attacked again.

    If we are, we'll send a few cruise missiles, a couple of aircraft carriers, maybe a division or two to fight a war in a manner that prevents us from winning and the cycle will repeat.

    DEROS 72---- Does that last sentence sound familiar? Kind of reminds me ofa war I was sent off to fight back in the 60's, without the cruise missiles.




    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    The only problem with this topic is that in Israel, only Israelis can own guns and it's much more strict over there than here.

    http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/israel-firearms.htm

    "The Israel Dept. of the Interior makes notification to the general public the requirements necessary for the obtaining of a permit to possess a firearm:1. Applicant must be a permanent resident of Israel for 3 consecutive years prior to making application for a firearms permit.
    2. Applicant must be 21 years of age.
    3. The permit request must be for personal use, not to engage in the business of firearms sales.
    4. Applicant must fall into one of the following categories:
    a. Part-time reservist (volunteer) for 3 years- may own 1 handgun
    b. Such a reservist (volunteer) is a member of a gun club- may own 1rifle
    c. Professional, licensed public transportation driver, transporting a minimum of 5 passengers- may own 1 handgun
    d. Licensed animal control officer- may own 2 hunting rifles, *not*full automatic weapons, or semi-automatic weapons with a limited capacity magazine.
    e. Full-time dealer of jewelry or large sums of cash or valuables-may own 1 handgun
    West Bank and Gaza Strip Settlers:
    1. A resident in a militarily strategic buffer zone, essential to the security of the State of Israel- may own 1 handgun
    2. A business owner in these geographic areas- may own 1 handgun
    Veterans:
    1. Veterans of the Regular Army honorably discharged with the rank of non-commissioned officer, and veterans of the Reserve Army with the rank of regimental commander- may own 1 handgun
    2. Retired law enforcement officers with the rank of sergeant- may own 1handgun
    3. Retired prison guards with the rank of squadron commander- may own 1handgun
    Individuals:
    Upon presenting documentation that one is about to receive a souvenir, a prize, an inheritance, or an award of appreciation from the Israel military."
    Palestinians are not considered citizens of Israel nor are they permitted businesses. All of the requirements except #2 of the Gaza Strip clause are positions held exclusively by Israelis. All those pictures of girls toting M16s are of the girls in the IDF or police.


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    DEROS72 wrote:









    Israeli female soldiers shopping in PX
    MMMM Monday Tuesday Wedsnday Thursday Friday Saturday...........:celebrate

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    sirpuma wrote:
    All those pictures of girls toting M16s are of the girls in the IDF or police.
    Blah blah blah. I'm diggin the one in sandals. At least she's in a position where she's watching everyone's back. :?

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    amlevin wrote:
    We here in the US won't see it quite like the Israeli's until over 6 million of us are exterminated by a whacko dictator and forced to live in a country where every neighbor within rocket/artillery range is dedicated to your elimination. Every day in Israel is a day of vigilance and preparedness. We here in the US suffer from historical amnesia. We forget the times we were attacked, who attacked us, and who hates us to the point of wanting US eliminated. We go about our daily lives in a state of bliss (or with our heads up our collective butts) and won't do anything until we are attacked again.

    If we are, we'll send a few cruise missiles, a couple of aircraft carriers, maybe a division or two to fight a war in a manner that prevents us from winning and the cycle will repeat.

    DEROS 72---- Does that last sentence sound familiar? Kind of reminds me ofa war I was sent off to fight back in the 60's, without the cruise missiles.
    Please at your earliest convenience check up on history of the Holocaust. Your number of Jews who were "exterminated" is a bit off. You may also want to check on what percentages died from what causes. Did you know that there were Jews in the German army and in the SS? Also check up on the greater number of Christians slaughtered by the Jews during the Russian revolution. Or the greater number of whites slaughtered in various African countries during various wars. You may also want to check up on your Middle Eastern relationships and history of the Middle East.

    Why is it that only the Jews have suffered a "Holocaust" even though the numbers of them that were imprisoned and died was lower than many other ethnic or religious groups in other conflicts. Hell, most of the Jews that died in the camps died of disease, not because Germans killed them. Prison camps are nasty horrid places. Read up on Andersonville or Elmira of the Civil War. And Jews weren't the only people in prison camps during WWII. Japanese Americans were put in prison camps in the US (though much nicer ones). Whites all across the far east were put into very nasty prison camps by the Japanese and other Asian nations. Germans, Dutch, Danes, French and other European whites were locked up too. Mostly for being Communists.

    Every racial group, every religious group and every nationality has suffered atrocities at the hands of some other at some point in history. Yet only the Jews get to have massive media and world attention for decades after their events. Hell, when the Israelites moved into Canaan (now Israel) the first thing they did was start slaughtering the Canaanites (now the Palestinians). This **** has been going on for millennia.

    The point is that one must always provide for personal protection. There will always be some whack job out there who wants to rule over others just as there are people out there who prefer to have tough rulers over them. Freedom is something that must be fought for and something that must be fought to retain. There will always be some thug out there bent on taking away your property, or doing bodily harm to you. Most people are decent, upstanding humans, but there are enough people that are just plain screwed up that we must always seed to protect ourselves, because the police and military are not obligated to do so.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    sirpuma wrote:
    The only problem with this topic is that in Israel, only Israelis can own guns and it's much more strict over there than here.


    c. Professional, licensed public transportation driver, transporting a minimum of 5 passengers- may own 1 handgun
    I'll give credit where credit is due. At least they permit & encourage bus drivers to be armed!

    :celebrate:celebrate
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  14. #14
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    sirpuma wrote:
    amlevin wrote:
    We here in the US won't see it quite like the Israeli's until over 6 million of us are exterminated by a whacko dictator and forced to live in a country where every neighbor within rocket/artillery range is dedicated to your elimination. Every day in Israel is a day of vigilance and preparedness. We here in the US suffer from historical amnesia. We forget the times we were attacked, who attacked us, and who hates us to the point of wanting US eliminated. We go about our daily lives in a state of bliss (or with our heads up our collective butts) and won't do anything until we are attacked again.

    If we are, we'll send a few cruise missiles, a couple of aircraft carriers, maybe a division or two to fight a war in a manner that prevents us from winning and the cycle will repeat.

    DEROS 72---- Does that last sentence sound familiar? Kind of reminds me ofa war I was sent off to fight back in the 60's, without the cruise missiles.
    Please at your earliest convenience check up on history of the Holocaust. Your number of Jews who were "exterminated" is a bit off. You may also want to check on what percentages died from what causes. Did you know that there were Jews in the German army and in the SS? Also check up on the greater number of Christians slaughtered by the Jews during the Russian revolution. Or the greater number of whites slaughtered in various African countries during various wars. You may also want to check up on your Middle Eastern relationships and history of the Middle East.

    Why is it that only the Jews have suffered a "Holocaust" even though the numbers of them that were imprisoned and died was lower than many other ethnic or religious groups in other conflicts. Hell, most of the Jews that died in the camps died of disease, not because Germans killed them. Prison camps are nasty horrid places. Read up on Andersonville or Elmira of the Civil War. And Jews weren't the only people in prison camps during WWII. Japanese Americans were put in prison camps in the US (though much nicer ones). Whites all across the far east were put into very nasty prison camps by the Japanese and other Asian nations. Germans, Dutch, Danes, French and other European whites were locked up too. Mostly for being Communists.

    Every racial group, every religious group and every nationality has suffered atrocities at the hands of some other at some point in history. Yet only the Jews get to have massive media and world attention for decades after their events. Hell, when the Israelites moved into Canaan (now Israel) the first thing they did was start slaughtering the Canaanites (now the Palestinians). This @#$% has been going on for millennia.

    The point is that one must always provide for personal protection. There will always be some whack job out there who wants to rule over others just as there are people out there who prefer to have tough rulers over them. Freedom is something that must be fought for and something that must be fought to retain. There will always be some thug out there bent on taking away your property, or doing bodily harm to you. Most people are decent, upstanding humans, but there are enough people that are just plain screwed up that we must always seed to protect ourselves, because the police and military are not obligated to do so.

    You are right. The 6million number is probably wrong. It is most likely LOW. I only mentioned this amount as it is a fairly widely accepted amount and doesn't include the number of Russian civilians that were systematically eliminated.

    I was focusing on ONE point which wasn't meant to include all those around the world that were victims of atrocities as well. I was pointing out the state of mind that exists in Israel and how this country will not accept that the people themselves need to be vigilant until they suffer a similar occurance. We are essentially FAT, DUMB, and HAPPY here as a society. We collectively think that the Military will keep us safe from foreign attacks and the Police will protect us from our own criminals.

    Yes, I agree that individuals need to be prepared to defend themselves, as I am and I'm sure that most here are. Fact remains though that we have leaders that don't. They see that as the job of the Government and want to see all of the armament in their hands, not ours. This will only change when two conditions are met.

    First we need to recognize that we are not loved as a country in the world. Those that have less than us want to bring us down to their level. Those in power in other countries want to see us "put in our place".

    Second, we need to look at who we send off to represent and in turn, govern us. How many "good haircuts and charming manners" have we sent to Washington, D. C. only to find out that they are either dumber than a box of rocks or have their own agendas that do not include our best interests at all.

    I seriously believe that there will be no meaningful change until we see a paradigm shift in how we select our representatives or we suffer our own misfortune in the form of another 9-11. We guard airports and airplanes but not Malls or Theaters. We step up security for the Super Bowl with the best methods available yet every weekend, during the regular season, security is handled by minimum wage personnel that probably couldn't tell the difference between a nail bomb and a stale fruitcake.

    The Israelis are watching daily and they still have attacks. We as a nation have "cranial rectal inversion" when it comes to security and then, to add the "cherry" to it all we have leaders that want to disarm their constituents.

    Like Obama said, we need change. Not necessarily the kind he has in mind.


    BTW, what kind of statement is this?

    Hell, most of the Jews that died in the camps died of disease, not because Germans killed them.
    Who imprisioned them then failed to feed them, etc.?


    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    If you died in an internment camp because of it being a horrid place you were still killed by those who put you there.

    But you are right history is skewed in many many ways. Ask native americans.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    amlevin wrote:
    We are essentially FAT, DUMB, and HAPPY here as a society. We collectively think that the Military will keep us safe from foreign attacks and the Police will protect us from our own criminals.
    QED.

    Starting from a young age we are thrown into a social situation that is modelled after our prisons, we don't learn anything in that 12 year term then we're put on the street and told to "take care." Senseless garbage remains in our heads that the police and military is here to protect us.

    We have armed guardians in our society and unarmed guards off fighting a valiant uphill battle against terrorists that usually don't get the chance to invade. WTF is the real problem here? I don't know. It's been 6 years out of school and I still have trouble thinking.

    We haven't been invaded by an army for 4 years so I'd say we're doing somewhat okay now. Either way, I probably should arm myself just in case. :?

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    If you died in an internment camp because of it being a horrid place you were still killed by those who put you there.

    But you are right history is skewed in many many ways. Ask native americans.
    Even earlier, the Romans, the Gauls, followed by the British and probabably the most brutal of all in modern colonial Africa, the Belgians. What made the Nazi (to distinguish from Germans in general) extermination program so heinous is that it happened in modern times, was promulgated by a supposedly civilized society, and for the most part, the world turned a deaf ear to those that tried to bring the "extermination" program to light.

    History is often re-written as a matter of convenience. What the heck, nobody is around today to dispute the modern accounts of history.

    Take for example of Palestine from 1923 to 1947. The area known prior to that as the Palestinian portion of the Ottoman Empire was divided. Jews were to be restricted to the area west of the Jordan river. The remainder was known as Trans Jordan. The Jewish portion was 1/3 the size of the remaining portion which was to be an Arab Palestinian homeland. The remainder was to be a Jewish Palestinian homeland. Yup, there were Jews living there before WWII and those born there were called Sabra's.

    Seems that the Arab Palestinians didn't like the idea of sharing and the wanted the Jews gone after the UN recognized the State of Israel. My question is, why didn't the Arab Palestinians form their own state in the remaining 3/4 of the original territory. For that answer you would probably have to ask the King of Jordan who seems to treat the Palestinian population of his country as unwanted souls. Yes, many of them are refugees from the 1948 war. They were told by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem to either leave or die with the Jews. Been in "Jordan" ever since.

    Read the following:

    http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

    There are historical facts that seem to get pushed into the background by many.

    Understanding what has happened in the middle east, and the forces behind the current conflict, will help understand that the US is viewed by many in the Arab world as the root of all their problems. The militants, spurred on by the likes of Osama Bin Laden and others, will keep up their war of terror and unfortunately there is no real end in sight. They will wait as long as necessary and then, when we are the most complacent, strike again. Sadly, that's what we have ahead of us for as many years as it takes to wear them down.

    Maybe when the Mid-East Oil runs out there will be a change. Less money from the fat arab businessmen and leaders to clandestinely finance the terror war. Let's face it, many Arabs just contribute their bodies to the cause. The money is coming from the "Oil".


    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    If you died in an internment camp because of it being a horrid place you were still killed by those who put you there.
    Exactly right. Or should we not blame the Japanese for deaths of all our service members who were mistreated while prisoners and died from disease and malnutrition?



    As to sirpuma's posts...

    I absolutely agree and acknowledge that pretty much every class, culture, or religion (including mine) has committed atrocities at one time or another. The fact that another one did it however doesn't lessen the fact that it was done or that it should be condoned or somehow justified or excused when others do it. People, societies, religions, cultures, and nations should learn from the mistakes of others as well as their own.

    Maybe the Jewish folks are just better at getting support, or maybe it is because their holocaust is the most significant one in recent history, or because it was central to a conflict that the majority of the world was involved in as opposed to a simple squabble between a couple of countries or the two dominant religions in a region.

    Who knows why they get the best coverage, does it really matter? I've yet to come across anyone who tries to minimize the Holocaust who isn't also harboring some anti-Semite feelings as well.

    I think it is a disservice to any group who suffered such atrocities to somehow try and lessen what happened by saying it happen to others as well or that some other group suffered "more".

    Kinda like that ********* who jumped in on Taylor Swift when she was accepting her award..

    "Ya, ya, the Jews are victims an Ima gonna let them finish, but my peeps suffered more than anyone in the world, I'm jus sayin'...."



    Have a little class.

  19. #19
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    911Boss wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    If you died in an internment camp because of it being a horrid place you were still killed by those who put you there.
    Exactly right. Or should we not blame the Japanese for deaths of all our service members who were mistreated while prisoners and died from disease and malnutrition?

    "snip"



    Have a little class.
    Who was that aimed at? If I gave the impression that I was trying to minimize the atrocities of the descendants of Israel I apologize. That was never my intent.


    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    amlevin wrote:
    snip history lesson
    Yes you are correct. Even though this is OT. I'll add to your history. Jerusalem was a Hebrew city from it's founding well before Abraham. It's original name Salem or Shalom. Maybe even founded by Shem himself, who could also have been high priest Milchalzadek (spelling) whom Abraham paid Tithes too.

    It was conquered by Jebusites, which than changed its name to Jebu-salem or(Jerusalem), sometime after Abraham but before Iraelites returned to Canaan. No other inhabitants but Israeli can claim continual occupancy of the region. Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, empires practiced displacing residents of one area to another it helped keep rebellion down and made them more likely to convert to being their subjects.

    Although the Jews were displaced temporarily by Babylon the Persian empire let them return. Since then other conquering nations never accomplished a total displacement or removal of the inhabitants of Judea. Even under Arabic conquerors or christian.

    This is mostly from memory and I might be fuzzy on a few details. But when I was younger I used to love to use timelines and compare it to the Hebrew bible, it always amazed me how accurately Hebrews kept the timelines of their history.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    911Boss wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    If you died in an internment camp because of it being a horrid place you were still killed by those who put you there.
    Exactly right. Or should we not blame the Japanese for deaths of all our service members who were mistreated while prisoners and died from disease and malnutrition?

    "snip"



    Have a little class.
    Who was that aimed at? If I gave the impression that I was trying to minimize the atrocities of the descendants of Israel I apologize. That was never my intent.

    Not at you. I agreed with your point of whether gassed, shot, or death by disease, the folks who put them in the camp in the first place were responsible.

    You "snipped" too much.

    Instead of quoting sirpuma's drivel, I started that section with "As to sirpuma's posts..."

  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I thought so but I missed that. Just wanted to make sure I didn't inadvertently say something wrong.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
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    911Boss wrote:
    Not at you. I agreed with your point of whether gassed, shot, or death by disease, the folks who put them in the camp in the first place were responsible.

    You "snipped" too much.

    Instead of quoting sirpuma's drivel, I started that section with "As to sirpuma's posts..."
    Drivel, is it? And what was drivel?

    I simply said the number of 6 Million is an over statement. And that there are atrocities everywhere and that it's up to each person to defend themselves. Since you are so closed minded and refuse to look up the history for yourself, here's some useful links.

    http://warofillusions.wordpress.com/...-to-1-million/

    http://www.cephas-library.com/israel...r%20Vastly.htm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXKHw0EZrqM (Part 1 of 7 from a Jewish Revisionist)

    That should get you started, or get you fuming. Either way the truth hurts. I don't blame you for not knowing the truth, you were taught wrong.


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    911Boss wrote:
    As to sirpuma's posts...

    ...

    1.
    Maybe the Jewish folks are just better at getting support,

    2.
    I've yet to come across anyone who tries to minimize the Holocaust who isn't also harboring some anti-Semite feelings as well.

    3.
    I think it is a disservice to any group who suffered such atrocities to somehow try and lessen what happened by saying it happen to others as well or that some other group suffered "more".

    4.
    Have a little class.
    1. Bingo, you hit the nail on the head.

    2. If you're going to make an accusation, make it. Frankly I don't care about name callers, I care about TRUTH and accuracy. If speaking the truth about the misrepresentation of the numbers of the prisoners of the various concentration camps makes me an "anti-semite" then so be it. I care about factual data, not bloated guesses.

    3. Per your own words you are doing a disservice to all the other groups by only focusing on the Jews plight. I seek to keep things balanced. It is truly a greater disservice to propagate a lie. Besides, I never said anything about my people suffering.

    4. Take your own advice.

  25. #25
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Sirpuma-

    Do you consider one of your linked sources to be accurate and unbiased? Stormfront.org has all the earmarks of being a "White Arayan" forum.

    As for Auschwitz/Birkenau, that was only ONE extermination "factory". Dachau, Chelmo, Blezec, Majdanek, Sobibor, Treblinka were others. Not named are the huge pits that victims were herded into and shot. We only seem to remember Auschwitz and Dachau as they are the most prominant camps that were preserved. Jews, Non-Jewish Poles, Russians, Gypsies, and anyone else that the "Aryan's" deemed "defective" were also herded into Forests, Cemetary's, and plain old Slaughter Houses to be killed.

    Go ahead and accept the revised figure for Auschwitz. Just be sure to include all the rest of the extermination camps and those exterminated by not just the Nazi's but their henchmen as well.

    There were so many killed that the world will never know the exact number. The fact remains that a so called civilized country systematically executed vast numbers of their unarmed citizens. THAT is why the "Holocast" is so named.

    BTW, a family member of mine was involved in documenting deaths in one camp. The team he was part of could only estimate as there were few bodies other than those that had recently died and had been abandoned by the fleeing Guards.

    All of my Father's family members, that remained in Europe before the war stated were victims of this systematic extermination. As far as I am concerned it matters not the actual number. After all, when you pass a million deaths, what's a few more?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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