Should Mike's Web Domain Be More Precise?

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Mike wrote:

hp-hobo wrote:

We have to look at the big picture.

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Looking at the big picture, requires a Venn diagram approach - if you take an all or nothing approach togun carry rights, e.g., that no legal or social or logical restrictions should ever be applied or implied to gun carry, no matter whether the gun is in a holster, a hand, slung over a shoulder, or whether it is along gun or machine gun,being handled at the dinner table, etc., you are basically left with very little, or no,shaded gray area of agreement - and even if some identifiable segment of pulic opinion might warm up to this view, the law will not, and the approach you suggest would truly hurt the development of the law right now, which is headed in our direction. For now.

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I don't recall suggesting any approach, but that's besides the point. You're so busy being a lawyer trying towin an argument, Venn diagrams aside, you've missed the big picture. Again.

I never once said that we should not continue to work on expanding gun rights in the same way they were taken away... Incrementally, one at a time. But we must also protect the rights that we currently still enjoy. And in some places open carry of a long gun is entirely legal. Something about a right exercised is a right lost. I heard that somewhere and kinda liked it. But I digress.

I've had my say as a guest on your forum but I'll step out of this discussion now. Why? Because a small portion of your argument above sounds like it was written by someone from the Brady Bunch or VPC. Who can argue against "logical restrictions" or machine guns being handled at a dinner table. I certainly can't.

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"Should Mike's Web Domain Be More Precise?"

Actually, John is the registered owner of the domain, and I am the registered owner of the trademark, but we each claim joint title to both assets, and are ready to sue each other should one of us attempt to cheat the other!

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And the 2nd Amendment does not guarantee the right of carrying what we want, when we want. There are other considerations ...after all, I can't keep nor bear arms in your house, restaurant, hardware store, gas station, or grocery store if you the owner say I cannot because the owner of private property has the right to decide what can/cannot be done, when it can/cannot be done, and even how it can/cannot be done.... regardless of if we agree with it or not.

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As much as I agree with this statement I find many that totally disagree with it especially when you include restaurant, grocery store etc. in that list.

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Mike, just a thought, why not simply start a "Long guns only" thread?

Wouldnt that satisfy all partys. I think the discussion is healthy for the site. As it was, nobody even knew that long guns were an issue until someone brought it up. As it was, I still dont fully understant the legal technicalitys of carrying a long gun in my state. I respect your positio, but please try to see the value in allowing us to discuss these issues.
And issues related, like can I carry openly or concealed, with a permit and without, a handgun, in hunting areas, and so on. These discussions are vital to our memers safety and security.

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Mike wrote:

DanM wrote:

your organization/website needs to be "handgunopencarry.org", not "opencarry.org".

"opencarry.org" implies a broader view and support beyond handguns, because in many states it is lawful, and isexercised,to open carry firearms other than handguns.

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well, I don't agree - the concealed/open carry distinction traditionally, functionally, and legally, regards concealable firearms, e.g., generally, handguns.

Long gun carry is, well, just carry.

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The "concealed/open carry distinction" is not the only distinction of "open carry" from other forms ofcarry. There is the encased/open carry distinction as well. That is adistinction that applies (perhaps there are also other distinctions), when speaking of long arms.

You may carry your long arm encased (perhaps there are other forms of non-open long arm carry as well), or you may carry it openly. The latter is "open carry of a long arm". Therefore, again, "open carry" does indeed apply to long arms as well as handguns. As you note by one distinction you mention, an alternative to open carrying handguns is concealed carry. However, by another distinction you missed (and perhaps there are others as well), analternative to open carrying a long arm is encased carry (among other non-open possibilities).

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What about renaming the site handgunopencarryinaholster.com ?

I don't see anything wrong with carrying a handgun on a sling or even in your hand if you want.



Maybe handgunopencarrywearingasuitandcarryinginanicebeltholster.com ?

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kwikrnu wrote:

What about renaming the site handgunopencarryinaholster.com ?

I don't see anything wrong with carrying a handgun on a sling or even in your hand if you want.



Maybe handgunopencarrywearingasuitandcarryinginanicebeltholster.com ?

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:lol: you can do better than that, make the title even longer:lol:

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Grapeshot wrote:

I always get a chuckle when other people purport to tell a party what they should do with their property, how and why.  Suggestions - OK, I can deal with that once and a great while, unless it has been visited before with finality.

Are some here laboring under the impression that this forum is operated by popular vote or subject to argumentative influence?  OCDO belongs to Mike and John - it is their baby - an extension of their personal beliefs and philosophies AND their rules.

That they have occasionally permitted different, unusual or controversial subjects to be explored is example enough of their tolerance.......or willingness to give enough rope.

We are here as their guests - by their invitation and consent, but not without limit or restrictions.

Much of this is not about us, but about public relations and the public's perspective.  It may not suit all people at all times nor is it intended to do so.  Its also not our call.

Bottom line - OCDO is arguably the single best forum of its type on the internet.  There are two reasons for that.  Can you deduce what (who) they are?

All of these thoughts are mine alone, but I will stand firmly behind them.  I do NOT speak for Mike or John, collectively or individually.

          Yata hey

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I agree with this post. ™

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CarryOpen wrote:

Here is my take - it doesn't really matter if everyone or no one agrees with it:

Slinging a rifle or rifle-like pistol around your neck and carrying it to get a reaction is not helping normalize guns in the eyes of the public.  You are just about guaranteed that these events have politicians foaming at the mouth to legislate our rights away.  While I 100% support the right to carry those firearms, I believe that they are hurting us in this climate.

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I'm inclined to agree. People are used to seeing handguns on cops, so the issue of normalization is with regard to those handguns being carried once again by people without "all that training".

Rifles, on the other hand, aren't going to "normalize" anything until the OC of handguns by citizens is ubiquitous. With the rifle, it's not just the issue of WHO is carrying the gun, but also WHAT kind of gun it is. This is because people, in general, are not only not used to seeing people without "all that training" carrying rifles, they're also unused to seeing ANYBODY at all carrying rifles. The handgun only implies one of the "issues", and so it's a better device for the initial stage of "re-normalization".

The rifle going to attract attention, and not of the positive kind. I personally won't react to your OC rifle, but then I'm not the person with whom the normalization of guns must occur. Get it?

Baby steps, folks. We're too atrophied to get to the finish line in a singe bound. We'll merely stumble and hurt our progress if we try that.

My parents have both come 'round to being pro-OC (they don't do it, but they support it politically). I can only imagine how they'd have come to feel about civilian OC if I'd started carrying an EBR around everywhere. :uhoh:

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I don't understand this discussion?

I personally would not disrespect someone for naming their ranch "free land" only to discover they didn't mean I could have some of their land for free... and then insist they change the name so little ole me won't misunderstand!

:what:

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Bikenut wrote:

I don't understand this discussion?

I personally would not disrespect someone for naming their ranch "free land" only to discover they didn't mean I could have some of their land for free... and then insist they change the name so little ole me won't misunderstand!

:what:

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I don't understand it either. There is nothing stopping the long gun open carriers from starting their own discussion board. Like Nike says, Just do it!

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Folks - as many have asked, John and I have formally updated our main page to clarify the focus of OpenCarry.org: "A pro-gun Internet community focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life."

Long gun carry is a great topic for some folks to look into but distracts from our organizational focus here - generally in the law of carry rght now we have major restrictions on the right to open or conceal carry handguns in many states - and generally the law of long gun carry is much less restrictive - and for long guns the issue is mainly just "carry" generally, as concealed carry of long guns is not practical or in some cases possible anyway.

Please note - NEW RULE - #11:

11) This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. Do not start OFF TOPIC threads or discussions such aspromoting the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the folks on this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry.