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Thread: Open carry in Ashland Ky. Central Park. Legal? City doesn't think so.

  1. #1
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    The City has signs posted at Central Park no firearms allowed. Well I emailed the City Attorney,Police Chief,Park Manager, and City Manager and informed them that the sign was illegal due to the fact the City cannot pass a law that supersedes the Ky. Constitution. So i sent them this email.
    Just waiting on there response. It should be interesting.


    Is open carry legal in Ashland Central Park? There are signs posted that states Firearms Prohibited at the park entrance. As per
    KRS 65.870
    Office of the Attorney General 96 - 39
    "A county may not ban or regulate the open or concealed carry of firearms in
    public parks it controls, except a fiscal court may by ordinance prohibit or limit
    the carrying of concealed firearms in the buildings, or portions of buildings, the
    county controls located in such parks."

    These illegal signs should be corrected.

    Thank You


    KRS 65.870

    Local
    The state of Kentucky has a preemption law which prohibits counties or
    municipalities from creating more restrictive gun laws than those created by the
    state.
    KRS 65.870 Local firearms control ordinances prohibited.
    No city, county or urban-county government may occupy any part of the field of
    regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession, carrying or transportation of
    firearms, ammunition, or components of firearms or combination thereof.
    Effective: July 13, 1984
    History: Created 1984 Kentucky Acts ch. 42, sec. 1, effective July 13, 1984
    The only exception to Kentucky's preemption law is KRS 237.115, which does allow
    local governments to restrict the carry of concealed deadly weapons in the
    buildings owned or leased by the local government (other than residences, highway
    rest areas, and shooting ranges). The statute further states that while the carry
    of deadly weapons can be prohibited in these few government owned or leased areas,
    unless a federal or Kentucky state law is violated, there can be no additional
    criminal penalties enforced.
    Created October 1, 1996. Amended March 31, 2005.
    Court Opinions In Kentucky

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    Way to go! Definitely keep us posted on your correspondence.

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    Here is the response email I received from the Ashland Police Chief Ratliff chiefratliff@ashlandkypd.com


    The following is the information you requested: 96.25 BEARING FIREARMS PROHIBITED
    No person shall bear a firearm or other deadly weapon in any city park except a law enforcement officer or a party so authorized by the Board of Commissioners.
    (Ord. 118-2000, passed 9-7-00; Am. Ord. 79-2004, passed 6-24-04) Penalty, see §96.99

    Your concerns will be forwarded to the City’s legal department for review.

    Thanks,



    Mission Statement
    The Ashland Police Department, in partnership with our community, provides impartial, ethical, and professional law enforcment service and protection.






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    In times like these I wonder if they're just pacifying us or if they're actually moving on it. I would definitely contact you city's attorney or "legal department". Here in Scott County, we contacted the county judge about a ban on guns in a county park. You could also probably contact your mayor or county judge. Just keep working your way up the ladder.

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    Here are some Email Address if anyone wants to send them a line or two.

    Mayor
    Tom Kelley
    P.O. Box 1839
    Ashland, KY 41105-1839
    Work # 606-327-2001
    Fax # 606-327-2055

    City Manager
    Stephen Corbitt
    P.O. Box 1839
    Ashland, KY 41101-1839
    Work # 606-327-2002
    Fax # 606-327-2055
    scorbitt@ashlandky.org

    Police Chief
    Robert W. Ratliff
    P.O. Box 1864
    Ashland, KY 41105-1864
    Work # 606-327-2077
    Fax # 606-324-5500
    chiefratliff@ashlandkypd.com

    City Attorney
    Richard W. Martin
    P.O. Box 1839
    Ashland, KY 41105-1839
    Work # 606-327-2004
    Fax # 606-327-2055


    Thanks, Your help is much appreciated.

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    Still no response from:
    Mayor
    Tom Kelley
    P.O. Box 1839
    Ashland, KY 41105-1839
    Work # 606-327-2001
    Fax # 606-327-2055

    City Manager
    Stephen Corbitt
    P.O. Box 1839
    Ashland, KY 41101-1839
    Work # 606-327-2002
    Fax # 606-327-2055
    scorbitt@ashlandky.org

    City Attorney
    Richard W. Martin
    P.O. Box 1839
    Ashland, KY 41105-1839
    Work # 606-327-2004
    Fax # 606-327-2055

    Guess they're going to try and just let this Illegal law stand?

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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    It's getting to the point that we should probably have a regular thread entitled "Another One Bites The Dust" to chronicle the demise of each and every local anti-gun law that was reversed by KRS 65.870. Just a short paragraph for each time a local ordinance was overturned, maybe with a link to the OpenCarry.org thread that describes the situation in more detail. It'd serve as a resource that could help local governments realize there is no need to even fight it because they don't have a chance.

    Hopefully, they'll bring this up in the next city council meeting and it'll be resolved sooner rather than later. I don't know about the others, but Lexington took down their no guns in the park rule off teir website in about an hour, and they delayed a couple of weeks on the library until the next library board meeting, then removed the rule from the library's online Code of Conduct and the signs were to have been changed soon thereafter. That was a month ago. I'll check the central library tomorrow evening, when I OPEN CARRY in there because they legally (but unwisely) prohibit concealed carry.

    We have such a strong case that I'd be willing to make a road trip to Ashland and have an open carry picnic in Central Park when the weather is a bit warmer.

    I'm amazed that local governments just keep passing these illegal ordinances. It's like Whack-A-Mole. Defeat one in Lexington and there's one popping up in Ashland. There should be a penalty for violating the Kentucky statutes. If the mayor and city council (or county judge executive and magistrates) had to cough up $100 for each day they were in willful noncompliance, as we would, then those illegal ordinances would fall a lot sooner.

    Buy rice. Buy beans. Buy guns. Buy ammo.
    This is your final SHTF warning.

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    An open carry picnic in Ashland Central Park when the weather is a bit warmer is a Great Idea. The library is on the same property might as well pay a visit there also. Sense this is there stance. Heres the link to there PDf file "LIBRARY POLICY MANUAL"


    http://www.thebookplace.org/images/pdf/boyd_county_library_policy_manual.pdf

    6. Controlled Substances and Materials
    6.1. Alcohol use
    6.1.1. Use of alcohol is prohibited on library property
    6.2. Illegal drugs
    6.2.1. Use of illegal drugs is prohibited on library property
    6.3. Tobacco use
    6.3.1. The library system is a smoke and tobacco free environment.
    6.3.2. Smoking/tobacco is permitted in designated areas only.
    6.4. Weapons
    6.4.1. Patrons are prohibited from carrying any concealed or dangerous weapon of any sort.
    6.5. Any violation of this policy may result in the loss of library privileges


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    Count me in!! Let's go ahead and pick a date so we can all plan.

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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    Civil disobedience is fun and all, and it does seem that even on a national level, the natives are getting restless, but I've had good luck with local bureaucrats by slapping KRS 65.870 on them. They don't like it, but they don't need to like it. All they need to do is read it and obey it. There's no wiggle room there. It's airtight and the attorney general rulings are unambiguous as hell.

    Be sure to document your dealings with them, including the date and time you called and who said what. I like to record the conversations. It keeps them honest later. It's my understanding that only one party needs to know that the recording is being made to be legal in Kentucky. I know that I'm recording, so I don't tell the bureaucrat that I'm recording and they are very much on the record. A recording could be very handy. Catch them intentionally depriving constituents of their rights, and at the very least, the next election is extremely difficult for them. There is also a US Code that provides harsh penalties for anyone who deprives a US citizen of their civil liberties under the color of law.

    Did I mention that I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice?



    Buy rice. Buy beans. Buy guns. Buy ammo.
    This is your final SHTF warning.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    PS - If they don't believe you, feel free to have the Ashland Public Library call Martha White, the director of the Lexington Public Library (859-231-5500) and ask her about them changing their policy to allow firearms last month, and have the city call Jerry Hancock, the director of the Division of Parks & Recreation (859-288-2960) to inquire about them removing the rule prohibiting firearms in the Lexington city parks late last summer.

    Buy rice. Buy beans. Buy guns. Buy ammo.
    This is your final SHTF warning.

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    Thanks for the update. I agree

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    OK, good work - be nice but firm - ask them for their timetable to repeal the rdiance b/c folks will want to come to the city council eeting and open carry while speaking to the council - that should get their attention

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    Crump1968 wrote:
    Still no response from:
    Mayor
    Tom Kelley
    P.O. Box 1839
    Ashland, KY 41105-1839
    Work # 606-327-2001
    Fax # 606-327-2055

    City Manager
    Stephen Corbitt
    P.O. Box 1839
    Ashland, KY 41101-1839
    Work # 606-327-2002
    Fax # 606-327-2055
    scorbitt@ashlandky.org

    City Attorney
    Richard W. Martin
    P.O. Box 1839
    Ashland, KY 41105-1839
    Work # 606-327-2004
    Fax # 606-327-2055

    Guess they're going to try and just let this Illegal law stand?
    Perhaps they are utilizing the "ignore the problem till it goes away" problem solving approach.

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    Thats good news, at least Richard Martin is aware of this now. We will see in 30 or so days.

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    If you dig around this board or the KY Attorney General's website, you'll find that the Daviess County Judge Executive, Buzz Norris, tried a similar stunt in the '90's. The AG issued an opinion that stated that Buzz's order indeed violated KY law.

    The county park ban went bye bye.

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    Liberty4Ever wrote:
    We have such a strong case that I'd be willing to make a road trip to Ashland and have an open carry picnic in Central Park when the weather is a bit warmer.

    Yes! An OC picnic in Ashland sounds VERY NICE! As if happens L4E, I'm pretty close to Ashalnd, my neck of the woods, so to speak. *LOL* If this comes to fruition, please post it as it's own topic and drop me a line, just in case I happen to overlook it somehow.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    I was in Ashland this past weekend for the gun show, where I was promoting the Kentucky Firearms Frredom Act (http://www.KYFirearmsFreedom.com) and the Rand Paul For US Senate campaign (http://www.RandPaul2010.com). After the gun show on Sunday, I went to Central Park to check out the sign. Yep, rule #2 says no firearms! I got a friend to take a picture.



    As expected, nobody freaked out in the park. A couple of guys stopped to talk. One guy had seen me at the gun show. The other guy was interested in the law because he wanted to carry concealed in the park and was very happy to hear that the local law was illegal. He was particularly happy to hear that Lexington had recently removed their "no firearms" signs in the parks and libraries to comply with state law, KRS 65.870, and this scenario had played out in cities and counties across Kentucky.

    On the way back to my truck, a slightly panicky woman parked next to me stopped me. Her car's keyless entry had stopped working and the key wasn't working in her car's door lock either, and she needed to borrow my cell phone to call her husband to come and help her. She didn't seem too concerned by the large rifle, and she was grateful to this gun owner for a little bit of assistance in her time of need.

    These illegal No Firearms rules protect nobody, and in fact increase the risks to law abiding citizens, whether they want to carry firearms on public property or not. These illegal rules need to go.

    So, any news from the Ashland city attorney or Boyd County attorney, or whoever is looking into this? The state law is very well defined and there is no gray area. What's holding up the show? Are they hoping you'll forget about it and it'll just go away, and they can keep their illegal ordinance?

    At the Ashland gun show this past weekend, I talked to Bud Stevens, the Boyd County judge executive. He's VERY pro-gun. You might want to call him and get him to light a fire under whoever is responsible for the illegal Central Park firearms prohibition.

    Buy rice. Buy beans. Buy guns. Buy ammo.
    This is your final SHTF warning.

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    Great to see you making the stay there, love them gun as well. *S* Had I known that you were going to be in Ashland, I would've made the trip down. I had been down earlier in the week to look at some SIG's and such with a female friend.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

  20. #20
    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    I was planning on letting Crump1968, the original poster, handle this on the local level. I think the response is better when the issue is brought to their attention by a local tax payer, err, uhh... voter.

    We're still about a week away from gutshot's 30 days to let them stew over it before checking back to see what they have done to correct their illegal laws.

    That's the big issue here. They passed illegal laws and have been illegally enforcing them. They're the ones breaking the law here. All we're doing is compelling them to obey the relevant state law. How can society function when legislators and elected officials violate the law? When our police enforce illegal laws? We're a nation of laws, and those laws apply to all of us, or at least they should.

    It's very sad that local legislators repeatedly pass illegal laws and enforce them until we compel them to follow the law, and there is never any accountability for depriving people of their rights under color of law. Until we have that accountability, we will continue to have local legislators acting like feudal lords presiding over their little fiefdoms, and their word is the law. At the very least, we need a state review board to examine each new local law to verify that it's legal before it can be implemented. I hate to recommend a new government function of any sort, but I'm greatly disturbed by the persistent pattern of unlawful laws being passed and enforced without any way to prevent that from happening. We shouldn't need to research the laws our legislators are passing to make certain they're legal. They should do their job. We're required to know the laws relating to everything we do and obey them. The local, state and federal laws are approachng a million pages, yet ignorance of the law is no excuse for us. Meanwhile, our local legislators violate the law in ways that substantially harm thousands of people, and there is no accountability for that. OK, I'll step down off my soap box now.

    Hey Crump1968! If you need any help with phone calls, emails, research, etc.... all the way up to civil disobedience by having an open carry picnic in the park, just let me know and I'll do whatever I can. I think there are plenty of reasonable tactics that should be exhausted before going to more extreme measures. In matters such as these, I prefer the glacier approach. Slow, steady, relentless, irresistable pressure. There is a disadvantage. It's slow and it can require some patience.

    I would hardly say that I know the Boyd County judge executive, but I did talk with him for a few minutes at the Ashland gun show last weekend. He'd probably remember me. I could call him if Crump1968 wants me to call.



    PS - Unless anyone else can produce photographic evidence to the contrary, I call dibs on being the first person to open carry a .50 BMG in Central Park!



    Buy rice. Buy beans. Buy guns. Buy ammo.
    This is your final SHTF warning.

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    That would be Bud Stevens. He actually taught my concealed class in 1997. He use to sell firearms here in Boyd Co. before he was elected Boyd County judge executive.As you said We're still about a week away from gutshot's 30 days before checking back to see what they have done. I think calls to the city commissioner and officials couldn't hurt at all. Thanks for all the help everyone.

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    Liberty4Ever wrote:
    snip"



    Edit: Cleaning up because you just never know how some people may construe something. Move along, nothing to see here...

    Awesome picture!

    Just to let you know though, that building directly <North of sign> with the blue/white panes in the windows, is an Elementary School.

    Not sure how far that is but if we do carry there, wouldn't we would need to be careful about the 1000 ft. rule?

    There is mention of the Library in this thread also, and it sits right next door to the school.

    <Edit: for clarity>

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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    rscottie wrote:
    Just to let you know though, that building directly behind you with the blue/white panes in the windows, is an Elementary School. Not sure how far that is but if we do carry there, wouldn't we would need to be careful about the 1000 ft. rule?
    I guess I could have used my laser range finder to determine the distance to the school, but that probably wouldn't look too good while holding a .50 BMG. :shock:

    Good call. That 1000 foot rule with the school is a pain. It's too easy to accidentally violate that rule. I'm sure people do it all the time. Who knows where all the schools are? I disagree with the concept behind the laws prohibiting guns in schools, but if they want a school-gun law, then prohibiting guns on school property is much more honest, equitable, understandable, and enforceable. It's too easy to cross an imaginary circle with a radius of 1000 feet around a school, particularly if you don't know a school is in the vicinity. I didn't know that was a school in the distance. How could I know?

    I know. I know. It's my responsibility to know where the schools are. This is yet another infringement under the guise of "reasonable restrictions".

    Edited to add: Anybody in Ashland want to measure to see if that sign is 999 feet from the school, or 1001 feet?

    Buy rice. Buy beans. Buy guns. Buy ammo.
    This is your final SHTF warning.

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    I am unaware of a "1000 ft" rule in KY. Can someone cite the KRS? Thanks!

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    langzaiguy wrote:
    I am unaware of a "1000 ft" rule in KY. Can someone cite the KRS? Thanks!
    The "1000 ft rule" was part of the Gun Free School Zones Act of 1996.

    It is a part of 18 USC § 922, and

    18 USC § 921 Definitions
    (a) As used in this chapter—
    (25) The term “school zone” means—
    (A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or
    private school; or
    (B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of
    a public, parochial or private school.
    (26) The term “school” means a school which provides
    elementary or secondary education, as determined
    under State law.

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