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Open carry in Ashland Ky. Central Park. Legal? City doesn't think so.

CRUMP68

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That would be Bud Stevens. He actually taught my concealed class in 1997. He use to sell firearms here in Boyd Co. before he was elected Boyd County judge executive.As you said We're still about a week away from gutshot's 30 days before checking back to see what they have done. I think calls to the city commissioner and officials couldn't hurt at all. Thanks for all the help everyone.
 

rscottie

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Liberty4Ever wrote:
snip"



Edit: Cleaning up because you just never know how some people may construe something. Move along, nothing to see here...

Awesome picture!

Just to let you know though, that building directly <North of sign> with the blue/white panes in the windows, is an Elementary School.

Not sure how far that is but if we do carry there, wouldn't we would need to be careful about the 1000 ft. rule?

There is mention of the Library in this thread also, and it sits right next door to the school.

<Edit: for clarity>
 

Liberty4Ever

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rscottie wrote:
Just to let you know though, that building directly behind you with the blue/white panes in the windows, is an Elementary School. Not sure how far that is but if we do carry there, wouldn't we would need to be careful about the 1000 ft. rule?
I guess I could have used my laser range finder to determine the distance to the school, but that probably wouldn't look too good while holding a .50 BMG. :shock:

Good call. That 1000 foot rule with the school is a pain. It's too easy to accidentally violate that rule. I'm sure people do it all the time. Who knows where all the schools are? I disagree with the concept behind the laws prohibiting guns in schools, but if they want a school-gun law, then prohibiting guns on school property is much more honest, equitable, understandable, and enforceable. It's too easy to cross an imaginary circle with a radius of 1000 feet around a school, particularly if you don't know a school is in the vicinity. I didn't know that was a school in the distance. How could I know?

I know. I know. It's my responsibility to know where the schools are. This is yet another infringement under the guise of "reasonable restrictions".

Edited to add: Anybody in Ashland want to measure to see if that sign is 999 feet from the school, or 1001 feet?
:uhoh:
 

rscottie

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langzaiguy wrote:
I am unaware of a "1000 ft" rule in KY. Can someone cite the KRS? Thanks!

The "1000 ft rule" was part of the Gun Free School Zones Act of 1996.

It is a part of 18 USC § 922, and

18 USC § 921 Definitions
(a) As used in this chapter—
(25) The term “school zone” means—
(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or
private school; or
(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of
a public, parochial or private school.
(26) The term “school” means a school which provides
elementary or secondary education, as determined
under State law.
 

rscottie

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I wasn't trying to bust anyones chops over the picture. I loved it.

The problem I have with the sign is that it tells the uninformed that it is against the law to be in the park with a firearm and leads to people making the MWAG call. The ones making the call equate rules to laws which leads them to believe that they are proper in calling.

These signs need to go.
 

MgoBlue

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Further clarification of the "school zone" matter . . .
(Note the exemption for those with a permit to carry)
Source: http://www.gunlaws.com/gloaup.htm#schools
=====================================

Public Law 104-208 Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations Act For Fiscal Year 1997
Sec. 101(b) Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 1997
Section 657, Gun-Free School Zone. THE GIST: Congress was rebuffed in its attempt to exercise police powers at the state level by the U.S. Supreme Court, when the court declared the 1991 Gun-Free School Zone law unconstitutional, in 1995. That law was reenacted, to the surprise of many observers, as an unnoticed add-on to a 2,000-page federal spending bill, in a form essentially identical to the one the Supreme Court overturned.
The law makes it a federal crime to knowingly have a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school. An exemption is granted to anyone willing to register with the government for a specified license to carry the firearm (most concealed-carry permits would qualify, most hunting licenses would not).
The prohibition does not apply to: 1-Firearms while on private property that is not part of the school grounds; 2-Any firearm that is unloaded and in a locked container; 3-Any firearm unloaded and locked in a firearms rack on a motor vehicle; 4-Possession of a firearm for use in an approved school program; 5-Possession under a contract with the school; 6-Possession by law enforcement officers in an official capacity; and 7-An unloaded firearm, while crossing school premises to public or private land open to hunting, if crossing the grounds is authorized by the school.
It is also illegal to fire a gun (or attempt to fire a gun), knowingly or with reckless disregard for safety, in a place you know is a school zone, with the following exceptions: 1-On private property that is not part of the school grounds; 2-As part of a program approved by the school; 3-Under contract with the school; 4-By law enforcement acting in an official capacity. Self defense is not mentioned, and presumably, a self-defense shooting in a school zone, unless on private property, would violate this law. States are not prohibited from passing their own laws.
America had 121,855 public and private schools as of 1994. In effect, this law criminalizes the actions of nearly anyone who travels in a populated area with a legally possessed firearm. As with its overturned predecessor, its affect on the very real problem of youth violence is unclear, and of course, any firearm used illegally in America, whether it is near a school or not, is already a serious crime with heavy penalties.
[font="Arial,Helvetica"]Full text of this statute is available in Gun Laws Of America[/font]
 

neuroblades

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There has been a number of "revisions" to the "gun/school zone" law over the years. In the first version, if you were legally carrying your sidearm in your glove compartment as KRS dictates and you drive by a school and was within the prescribed 1,000 feet, you could've been busted! This apparently happened somewhere and the law got taken to task and was "revised". Then a year or so later that "revision" had to be revised and so on and so on till we have the version that we have today.

I know the crowd and some will ask me for proof on this and all I can tell you is that it was an article ineither "American Handgunner" or "Combat Handguns", I had read about this within the past 8 months or so. If I can find the article again I'll post the issue or better yet, try to locate an electronic version of the article to post here.
 

langzaiguy

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Can local authorities enforce Federal law? I was under the impression that they couldn't. Either way, the radius doesn't apply to me seeing as I have a CCDW.
 

MgoBlue

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langzaiguy wrote:
Can local authorities enforce Federal law? I was under the impression that they couldn't. Either way, the radius doesn't apply to me seeing as I have a CCDW.
Yes, state and local officials can enforce Federal law. But, they always don't. This is what is going on in the southwest U.S. where some local police are refusing to enforce Federal immigration laws or, in California, where some local police are enforcing Federal drug laws (that run contrary to State law legalizing marijuana for medicinal purposes).

More importantly, whether or not your primary mode of firearms carrying is open or concealed, it behooves each and everyone of us to get a CDWL, if possible. The benefits are substantial.
 

aadvark

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Kentucky has great Firearm Laws.

The Park sign is Illegal, no matter which way you chop it up.

States can enforce Federal Lawon some things, but in practice, usually do not.
 

Bill Starks

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I've come to the conclusion that there are probably ordinances and/or signs like this all over KY. I don't know if they are passed knowing that they violate the law or out of ignorance. We should all start traveling around to all the counties near where we live and check out the city/county buildings, parks and any other public facility that may have signs restricting carry and see that they are done in accordance with the law. Then we could contact the officials in those counties to get them to comply with the law. In the Washington State forum the members have a list of the cities and counties that are not in compliance within their state law.


Guys we have been fighting this battle in Washington State as well (see this thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/20452.html) We have each town & county listed and weather or not they have repealed the "no guns in parks" signage. Maybe you can use it a a template for Kentucky.

I'll be home (Madisonville) in late June / early July and hopefully there will be an OC meet that I can attend.
 

Liberty4Ever

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I started a Kentucky local gun law database thread.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=40478

It's just a first rough pass to get it started. I'll do some research and add detail as I can.

This would be much better if a moderator could manage it, because this type of thread will be a magnet for thread crapping and misinformation. If ANYONE wants to do a cut and paste and manage this information, I wouldn't be the least bit offended. In fact, I'd be relieved. I have a lot on my plate (Kentucky Firearms Freedom Act!) and I'm trying not to volunteer for more stuff like this, but it seems like something we need and I assume everyone else is busy too.
 

Undertaker

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I've been 'out of the slot' for a while on vacation but am interested in this matter. I'll talk to Sonny Martin myself and a few others. I have a good working relationship with these guys. I walk around the park frequently OCing and OC just about everywhere else in town and haven't had any concern.Problem is, Ashland just seems to find more and more ways for us suburbanites to stay out of the city limits.
 

Liberty4Ever

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Thanks for suffering the frustrations of dealing with a non-responsive and non-representative government. Believe me, got a belly full of that when I was trying to lobby our state legislators for the Kentucky Firearms Freedom Act the last month. It's infuriating.

I had no such trouble removing the no-guns rule in the Lexington parks. One call and it was off the website. I think they knew better than to post signs in the parks. Apparently one of you good guys set them straight on that years ago. The Lexington library signs prohibiting deadly weapons took several phone calls and a couple of emails, but it wasn't much grief. They wasted some of my tax dollars paying an attorney to tell them that I was confused on the laws and then tell them exactly what I had already told them.

It'd be handy if the original poster could push this issue locally. Elected officials tend to care more if they're talking to a constituent, and it's four hours of driving for someone around Lexington.

If the Ashland officials continue to stonewall you, make a list of the dates and times you tried to contact them, and maybe you could contact the Kentucky Attorney General's office. Maybe they'll set them straight.

It can be useful to have a copy of the Rules For Counties. It's easy to find county fiscal courts in violation of these rules because they tend to run open loop. Almost nobody reads the rules and therefore, almost nobody calls them on violating the rules, so there is little incentive not to break the rules.

An OC picnic in Ashland sounds fun, and I'd probably make the trip, but I seriously doubt any media would touch that story. It's impossible to get any Lexington media to cover any of our positive open carry events. However, they're all too glad to tell of every gun crime, or anything that sorta might look like a gun crime.
 

Undertaker

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I had a good conversation with Sonny Martin (Ashland City Attorney), today regarding this matter. He's well aware that the sign is going to have to be changed. I enlightened him regarding the young couple who were robbed at gunpoint in Ritter Park, Huntington, WV (10 miles from Ashland) last night. I'll call Commissioner Larry Brown tomorrow. 2 things that come to mind on this subject is Commissioner Kevin Gunderson (former policeman shot in the line of duty and confined to a wheelchair, thus probably the biggest advocate for it) and Crabbe Elementary school. Ashland Central Park is 22 acres and the school is located on about 3 acres on the north corner. Read between the lines here, Mr. Martin dosen't make the decisionsbut he does make the recommendations and he's well aware of the law. Personally, I see a change coming in the sign very soon.

On another note, Kings Daughters Medical Center has NFA signs posted on all the doors and they are located across the street from the park.
 

Liberty4Ever

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Thank you gutshot for your patient attention to this matter. Liberty work is never done. Tyranny is always nibbling away at liberty, and to the extent that we allow it, we slowly lose our liberty. Sadly, those who would rob us of our liberty do not believe they are acting to increase tyranny. They genuinely believe their bureaucratic actions to be in our best interest. They take away our rights to protect us, or "it's for the children".

We need to be vigilant in jealously protecting our right to keep and bear arms. Once it's gone, it's gone for good.
 

CRUMP68

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I did miss that post. Good news,I'll keep my eye out for the changes, I go by the park often. Thanks everyone.
 
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