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Thread: Oregon Non-Resident CPL's

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    Kevin Starrett of Oregon Firearms Federation informs me that Grant County Sheriff Glen Palmer, who has a policy offreely issuing tonon-residents,wants to start issuing non-resident CPL's at Oregon gun shows. But first, he needs to buy an electronic fingerprint machine. It costs 12k, and OFF is contributing 1 of those k's. I'm going to pitch in a hundred myself, this is a good project and I still need an Oregon permit for myself anyhow. This message from the sheriff:

    "If they want to send it to me at 205 South Humbolt Street, Canyon
    CIty, Or. 97820 with a note "for fingerprint machine" I will put it
    into our monthly turn over with a line to a specific account that
    is and will be used for the upgrade on the equipment....what ever
    you can come up with would be wonderful too!!!!"

    Also see this OFF alert about it: http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/11.07.09%20alert.html This project is all about us out-of-staters, so we're the ones who should pony up contributions. Once he has this machine, residents of adjoining states will be able to apply for their permit in one stop.

    In other news, I'm also talking to OFF about coordinating next year to get some reciprocity going in Oregon, so our permitswill bevalid there and they can carry here too. We figure that if Oregon lawmakers hear from some Washington citizens at the right times, and maybe a Washington lawmaker or two, we can get a little spirit of cooperation going and get that done at the same time we're working to improve our own CCW and reciprocity laws. I asked Kevin Starrett, and Sheriff Glen Palmer will be willing to help out with that too.

    This is OC relevant too because youneed a valid CPL to OC in Oregon.




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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    Have them contact our Attourney General. He sets reciprocity, not the legislature.
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    The legislature writes the laws, the AG issues "opinions" about them. Oregon's law has to change before Washington will recoginze their permits under our current law.

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    And Washington's law says our atty general establishes reciprocity with other states. Once Oregon gets it together, then our atty general must be contacted, not the legislature.
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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    j2l3 wrote:
    And Washington's law says our atty general establishes reciprocity with other states. Once Oregon gets it together, then our atty general must be contacted, not the legislature.
    You're misreading what is being asked and putting the cart before the horse.

    Ken posted the following:

    In other news, I'm also talking to OFF about coordinating next year to get some reciprocity going in Oregon, so our permitswill bevalid there and they can carry here too. We figure that if Oregon lawmakers hear from some Washington citizens at the right times, and maybe a Washington lawmaker or two, we can get a little spirit of cooperation going and get that done at the same time we're working to improve our own CCW and reciprocity laws. I asked Kevin Starrett, and Sheriff Glen Palmer will be willing to help out with that too.
    Essentially, what Ken is asking for is asking for people in Washington, especially a few of the Washington State Legislative members, to come down to Oregon and testify on behalf of Oregon passing a reciprocity/recognition law, when a bill comes up in 2011. An anti-gun legislator in Oregon came up to Olympia 3 years ago and testified (more like testi-lied) to the Washington Senate Commerce committee for SB 5197, the "Gun show loophole" bill. Time that pro-gun Washington legislators return the favor for gun owners for once.

    This is different than what OFF and Sheriff Palmer are trying to do by having gather funds in sort of a "bake sale" fashion to try to get good electronic fingerprinting equipment that is portable enough to take to gun shows in Washington and the other contiguous states of Oregon so that he can process the applications on site rather than force people in the Seattle area to drive 7 or so hours to Canyon City, Oregon.

    Just to give you a thought: Grant County has only 8500 people, and the sheriff's office is very small in comparison to the sheriffs offices in the I-5 corridor. As fingerprinting equipment, especially the fingerprinting equipment that is portable enough to be used both in the office and at a gun show, it's going to cost quite a bit of green (minimum 10k, last time I checked), something the limited budget of Grant County cannot currently afford. I am currently researching the requirements of Oregon's Livescan requirements and see what equipment can be programmed to work with them to have a quick submission. Paper card fingerprints are notoriously rejected a lot for smudges, and the last thing you need to hear is that "Sorry, your fingerprints were rejected, we need to have you come back down AGAIN".

    One correction to Ken's statement: What he means to say is that you need a CHL to open carry STATEWIDE without fear of a local ordinance tripping you up, or being able to carry in the "public buildings" (which is currently very expansive in definition inside of Oregon's law). Sheriff Palmer is a true friend of the Second Amendment, and I don't believe he would too much care for Portland Police Bureau whining to him about someone OCing in their city and demanding he revoke an OC'ers permit, as it would likely be answered with a flat "No" and "You should repeal your ordinance and stop going after open carriers as they are in compliance with the 2A".

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    No, I read it correctly. Washington Law makerswill not get involved. The only person in our state government that will get involved is the atty general and not until Oregon makes changes.

    But then, you already knew that.
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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    j2l3 wrote:
    No, I read it correctly. Washington Law makerswill not get involved. The only person in our state government that will get involved is the atty general and not until Oregon makes changes.

    But then, you already knew that.
    So...what prevents a Senator or Representative from Washington going down to Salem, OR and testifying on behalf of a reciprocity bill? An Oregon state representative come up to Olympia three years ago. Is there some sort of state statute I'm not aware of?

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    Must we split hairs over something this uncomplicated? If or when Oregon's law is changed to recognize WA permits, then Washington law will recognize Oregon permits. If the AG is the one who does the paperwork after that, great. But if you mean to say the AG has actual authority to determinewhether or notWA law recognizes OR permits, please cite. In any case that's not an issue until after OR reciprocity is enacted and that's what I'm talking about doing.

    Regarding getting the change made during Oregon's next session, I doubt that there will be any need for trips to Oregon, though I'll likely be there myself. Probably just some of their lawmakers hearing from us and maybe others in CA and ID at the right times would be all that's needed, same as we do with our own legislature. OFF will do the heavy lifting, we'll just be helping out.



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    Gray Peterson wrote:
    As fingerprinting equipment, especially the fingerprinting equipment that is portable enough to be used both in the office and at a gun show, it's going to cost quite a bit of green (minimum 10k, last time I checked), something the limited budget of Grant County cannot currently afford. I am currently researching the requirements of Oregon's Livescan requirements and see what equipment can be programmed to work with them to have a quick submission.
    Do you think there might be a cheaper alternative available? If so I'm sure they'd want to know about it.

    BTW, it's "Kevin".



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    j2l3 wrote:
    And Washington's law says our atty general establishes reciprocity with other states.* Once Oregon gets it together, then our atty general must be contacted, not the legislature.
    Where do you read that?

    9.41.073 says that the AG shall publish a list of states that meet our laws and enter into an agreement of reciprocity with our state.
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    j2l3 wrote:
    Have them contact our Attourney General. He sets reciprocity, not the legislature.
    This is a misconception the Attorney General reviews periodically and publish a list of those that qualify under the following RCW.

    RCW 9.41.073 Concealed pistol license — Reciprocity.

    (1)(a) A person licensed to carry a pistol in a state the laws of which recognize and give effect in that state to a concealed pistol license issued under the laws of the state of Washington is authorized to carry a concealed pistol in this state if:

    (i) The licensing state does not issue concealed pistol licenses to persons under twenty-one years of age; and

    (ii) The licensing state requires mandatory fingerprint-based background checks of criminal and mental health history for all persons who apply for a concealed pistol license.

    (b) This section applies to a license holder from another state only while the license holder is not a resident of this state. A license holder from another state must carry the handgun in compliance with the laws of this state.

    (2) The attorney general shall periodically publish a list of states the laws of which recognize and give effect in that state to a concealed pistol license issued under the laws of the state of Washington and which meet the requirements of subsection (1)(a)(i) and (ii) of this section.

    [2004 c 148 § 1.]
    Numerous State do not qualify because one or the other want the same qualification to apply.
    This can come down to training requirements or minimum age requirement or even that they accept their license.

    The age issue is why Idaho is not recognized in Washington even though Washington could just disqualify those under the age of 21 with permits from other States.

    It would be great if Oregon and Washington would get their heads together and work this out.

    If we could get a couple of legislatures from both States to take the time to help work this out.

    Gray you are on the right track and thanks for pursing it.


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    Me and the OFF guys are going over the wording carefully to make sure their bill is compatible with our current law. The bill they've been promoting is a blanket shall-accept, which is great, just a lot harder to get enacted. So I made suggestions for amendments to address the objections that come up, that won't exclude us at least. Even if they only get a stripped-down reciprocity law like we got, at least they'll have their foot in the door and they can improve it with time until hopefully we all have Vermont carry.

    HB 3082 would have taken care of Idaho, we'll get an earlier start on that next year.



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    kschmadeka wrote:
    Me and the OFF guys are going over the wording carefully to make sure their bill is compatible with our current law. The bill they've been promoting is a blanket shall-accept, which is great, just a lot harder to get enacted. So I made suggestions for amendments to address the objections that come up, that won't exclude us at least. Even if they only get a stripped-down reciprocity law like we got, at least they'll have their foot in the door and they can improve it with time until hopefully we all have Vermont carry.

    HB 3082 would have taken care of Idaho, we'll get an earlier start on that next year.

    Good Work and all I can say is Get'er Done!
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    You know, now that I think about it, maybe a little coordinated badgering from folks inIdaho and Alaska would help light the fire under our lawmakers to get our own reciprocity law improved sopeople from those statescan carry here.

    Boy, I just love the way one good idea leads to more...

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    kschmadeka wrote:
    Gray Peterson wrote:
    As fingerprinting equipment, especially the fingerprinting equipment that is portable enough to be used both in the office and at a gun show, it's going to cost quite a bit of green (minimum 10k, last time I checked), something the limited budget of Grant County cannot currently afford. I am currently researching the requirements of Oregon's Livescan requirements and see what equipment can be programmed to work with them to have a quick submission.
    Do you think there might be a cheaper alternative available? If so I'm sure they'd want to know about it.

    BTW, it's "Kevin".

    1) Sorry about the name. Dealing with two Kevin's (Starrett and you).

    2) Possibly. This is why I am doing the research. If it's a matter of getting a 10K LiveScan device that you need to set up in an office that's very large, and a 15k one you can plug into a laptop pretty easily and do all of the same things, at least for the purposes of the gun show stuff, the portable machine is better.

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    Gray Peterson wrote:
    1) Sorry about the name. Dealing with two Kevin's (Starrett and you).

    2) Possibly. This is why I am doing the research. If it's a matter of getting a 10K LiveScan device that you need to set up in an office that's very large, and a 15k one you can plug into a laptop pretty easily and do all of the same things, at least for the purposes of the gun show stuff, the portable machine is better.
    It's not just two Kevin's either, it's two Kevin S.'s. I have to sign my full name when I write back and forth to them to avoid confusion.

    From what Kevin Starett says the machine the sheriff is looking at costs $12 thousand. And I just got another note from him this morning,the sheriffactually wants to do this at OUT OF STATE gun shows, starting in Washington! I just sent a note asking if he can provide more details about what shows the sheriff plans to do this at.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    kschmadeka wrote:
    Gray Peterson wrote:
    1) Sorry about the name. Dealing with two Kevin's (Starrett and you).

    2) Possibly. This is why I am doing the research. If it's a matter of getting a 10K LiveScan device that you need to set up in an office that's very large, and a 15k one you can plug into a laptop pretty easily and do all of the same things, at least for the purposes of the gun show stuff, the portable machine is better.
    It's not just two Kevin's either, it's two Kevin S.'s. I have to sign my full name when I write back and forth to them to avoid confusion.

    From what Kevin Starett says the machine the sheriff is looking at costs $12 thousand. And I just got another note from him this morning,the sheriffactually wants to do this at OUT OF STATE gun shows, starting in Washington! I just sent a note asking if he can provide more details about what shows the sheriff plans to do this at.
    I'm working on that particular detail for gun shows in Washington. I would say that the first one he should probably do is the WAC show in Puyallup. The WAC gun show in Monroe is a nice gun show, but small in comparison. Appropriate contacts have been made with WAC to see if we can get him some table space.

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    He could ALWAYS share table space with the OC table. He can contact myself, Spyder Tatoo or M1Gunner . We can get him a Vendor assistant pass at no cost. Just as long as we have a couple weeks notice.

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    Table space is something I'm sure he'd love to hear about. You canpm me your email addresses to pass on if you like, or if WAC wants to contribute they can give him a call.

    I'm told he definitely wants to do the Puyallup WAC show but that's all I know at this point. If I hear he plans to do any shows in Idaho or California then people there might want to pitch in for the fingerprint machine too.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    kschmadeka wrote:
    Table space is something I'm sure he'd love to hear about. You canpm me your email addresses to pass on if you like, or if WAC wants to contribute they can give him a call.

    I'm told he definitely wants to do the Puyallup WAC show but that's all I know at this point. If I hear he plans to do any shows in Idaho or California then people there might want to pitch in for the fingerprint machine too.
    Already posted on Calguns.net's 2A forum. We are finding him some good deals on equipment, that's about half the cost, assuming they can be configured to comply with Oregon's LiveScan requirements.

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    Maybe Obamamama has some stimulus money that might help.

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    Gray Peterson wrote:
    Already posted on Calguns.net's 2A forum. We are finding him some good deals on equipment, that's about half the cost, assuming they can be configured to comply with Oregon's LiveScan requirements.
    Excellent. And this forum looks like a great place to drum up interstatesupport for expanding reciprocity and improving CPL laws in the region too, especially where Oregon is concerned.

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    Gray Peterson wrote:
    Sheriff Palmer is a true friend of the Second Amendment, and I don't believe he would too much care for Portland Police Bureau whining to him about someone OCing in their city and demanding he revoke an OC'ers permit, as it would likely be answered with a flat "No" and "You should repeal your ordinance and stop going after open carriers as they are in compliance with the 2A".
    I like this guy!

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    Please keep us posted!

    I applied for an Oregon permit in one county - without going into detail was told my 'need' for it didn't apply to their county.

    Thought I could apply by mail in another county, then show up for the fingerprinting and signoff later by appointment, but after sending app was told that I must apply in person, then return in person. 7+ hour drive.

    If that sheriff shows up in Puyallup I'll be first in line.

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