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Thread: carrying in TN

  1. #1
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    I read some of the laws regarding carrying and want to be sure upon my trip next week.

    I can carry loaded in the car w/o a permit as long as none is in the chamber

    castle doctrine and stand your ground law is in effect

    I can carry in a restgaurant that serves alcohol as long as I'm not drinking.

    national park carry( appalachian trail) isn't in effect until feb 22.

    OC requires my ohio permit.



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    spioi wrote:
    I read some of the laws regarding carrying and want to be sure upon my trip next week.

    I can carry loaded in the car w/o a permit as long as none is in the chamber

    castle doctrine and stand your ground law is in effect

    I can carry in a restgaurant that serves alcohol as long as I'm not drinking.

    national park carry( appalachian trail) isn't in effect until feb 22.

    OC requires my ohio permit.

    Unless you have a permit the firearm must be seperate from the ammo. Like the gun in the glovebox and the ammo in the trunk. Unloaded in Tennessee means no ammo in the vicinity of the gun.

    You may not carry in a restaurant which serves alcohol.

    I'm not sure if TN accepts a permit from Ohio, they may. If TN recognizes the Ohio permit you should be able to carry open or concealed pretty much where ever you go.



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    1. No unlicensed carry in TN. It it's loaded, you must have a permit.

    2. No carry in restaurants which serve alcohol. (The new law is currently being litigated in the courts. A Davidson County (where Nashville is located) judge held the law unconstitutional and the AG has appealed.)


    3. Yes your permit is valid in TN. All state's permits are valid in TN.

    4. You may carry openly or concealed. However, contrary to what kwikrnu says in the Belle Meade thread, openly carrying is reason enough to be questioned in TN. (The way our permit law is written, the permit is a defense to a criminal charge [Carrying with intent to go armed] , therefore officers may check you to verify that you have a valid permit. If they do, any encounters should end after confirming that you have a valid permit. (For the record, I OC sometimes but have not had the issues that kwikrnu has had.)

    5. Be careful, and have a nice visit.


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    ProguninTN wrote:
    1. No unlicensed carry in TN. It it's loaded, you must have a permit.

    That is not entirely accurate. The Tennessee Legislature granted cities, counties, and municipalities the authority to govern themselves in TCA 39-17-1314(a). If an ordinance is in compliance with the State Constitution cities, counties, and municipalities with laws in effect before April 8, 1986 are allowed to regulate the manufacture, transport, and transfer of firearms. This means that if a city has an exception for carry a permit is not needed. For example, the City of Belle Meade Tennessee prohibits the carry or a revolver or pistol except the army or navy pistol which is to be carried openly in the hand. The law is very old and is an exception to State preemption. There is no city requirement that the bearer of the pistol be licensed. Since the Belle Meade ordinance is not preempted there is no need for a permit.



    On the other hand the City of Brentwood Tennessee prohibits the carry of all firearms. This is unconstitutional according to the State Supreme Court decision in glasscock v chattanooga. Not only is it unconstitutional, but the ordinance was not in effect until March 22, 1993. Therefore, State law preempts the City law.

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    that was my other question I forgot to add, if city ordinance overrides state law.

    also I must inform of my permit but don't have to say I'm armed.

    the statement about loaded arms in the car said one cant be in the chamber unless the holder feels threatened.Automobile carry:
    Public Chapter 431 – Loaded Rifles and Shotguns in Vehicles – This act allows a person with a handgun carry permit to possess a loaded rifle or loaded shotgun in a privately owned vehicle. The act provides that the weapon cannot have ammunition in the chamber except in the case that an individual permit holder feels physically threatened.
    Places off-limits when carrying:
    1. It is lawful to possess a firearm on the premises of a public place where alcoholic beverages are served as long as such individual is not consuming alcoholic beverages. However, a restaurant may choose to post a sign prohibiting firearms.

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    spioi wrote:
    that was my other question I forgot to add, if city ordinance overrides state law.

    also I must inform of my permit but don't have to say I'm armed.

    the statement about loaded arms in the car said one cant be in the chamber unless the holder feels threatened.Automobile carry:
    Public Chapter 431 – Loaded Rifles and Shotguns in Vehicles – This act allows a person with a handgun carry permit to possess a loaded rifle or loaded shotgun in a privately owned vehicle. The act provides that the weapon cannot have ammunition in the chamber except in the case that an individual permit holder feels physically threatened.
    Places off-limits when carrying:
    1. It is lawful to possess a firearm on the premises of a public place where alcoholic beverages are served as long as such individual is not consuming alcoholic beverages. However, a restaurant may choose to post a sign prohibiting firearms.
    You don't have to show your permit unless "upon demand of law enforcement" TCA 39-17-1351(n) I think.

    You don't have to tell them you are armed. If they ask you can choose to say nothing or divulge.

    It is illegal to carry into a restaurant where alcohol is served for consumption.

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    spioi wrote:
    that was my other question I forgot to add, if city ordinance overrides state law.

    also I must inform of my permit but don't have to say I'm armed.

    the statement about loaded arms in the car said one cant be in the chamber unless the holder feels threatened.Automobile carry:
    Public Chapter 431 – Loaded Rifles and Shotguns in Vehicles – This act allows a person with a handgun carry permit to possess a loaded rifle or loaded shotgun in a privately owned vehicle. The act provides that the weapon cannot have ammunition in the chamber except in the case that an individual permit holder feels physically threatened.
    Places off-limits when carrying:
    1. It is lawful to possess a firearm on the premises of a public place where alcoholic beverages are served as long as such individual is not consuming alcoholic beverages. However, a restaurant may choose to post a sign prohibiting firearms.
    The section I have colored is what I previously referred to. It is being litigated. Until the case is resolved, it is illegal to carry into any establishment which sells alcohol for on-site consumption. Here is the announcement from the TN Dept. of Safety (agency in charge of handgun carry permits in our state).

    http://www.state.tn.us/safety/handgunmain.htm

    In TN, you do not have to volunteer that you are armed to an officer if stopped. You only have to show the permit if asked. See T.C.A. 39-17-1351.

    As far as the city ordinance kwikrnu cites goes, it is based an a since-repealed state law. (Title 39-6-1701). Carrying loaded in the hand was TN State Law prior to 1989.

    Harris III, John L. Carrying a Handgun for Self-Defense in Tennessee. 3rd. Nashville: John L. Harris, III, 2003. Print. p. 15

    I'm not sure if the City of Belle Meade is still enforcing its old ordinance, we'll have to see the outcome of kwik's case.



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    ProguninTN wrote:
    As far as the city ordinance kwikrnu cites goes, it is based an a since-repealed state law. (Title 39-6-1701). Carrying loaded in the hand was TN State Law prior to 1989.

    Harris III, John L. Carrying a Handgun for Self-Defense in Tennessee. 3rd. Nashville: John L. Harris, III, 2003. Print. p. 15

    I'm not sure if the City of Belle Meade is still enforcing its old ordinance, we'll have to see the outcome of kwik's case.

    The law is on the books. It is the only legal manner to carry in Belle Meade and other Tennessee cities. What case? You think Belle Meade police will charge me with a crime? If so what crime? I violated no state law and no city law.

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    ProguninTN wrote:
    As far as the city ordinance kwikrnu cites goes, it is based an a since-repealed state law. (Title 39-6-1701). Carrying loaded in the hand was TN State Law prior to 1989.

    Harris III, John L. Carrying a Handgun for Self-Defense in Tennessee. 3rd. Nashville: John L. Harris, III, 2003. Print. p. 15

    I'm not sure if the City of Belle Meade is still enforcing its old ordinance, we'll have to see the outcome of kwik's case.

    The law is on the books. It is the only legal manner to carry in Belle Meade and other Tennessee cities. What case? You think Belle Meade police will charge me with a crime? If so what crime? I violated no state law and no city law.
    The Belle Meade city ordinance may still be on the books, but the state law which was modeled after is not. (The ordinance is dated 1987, the state law in question was repealed in 1989. See the book I referenced above.) I am not aware of anyone being criminally charge for not obeying the ordinance which you reference. (For the record, yes I have carried in Belle Meade.) I also know of no Municipality or County prosecuting anyone for carrying under 39-17-1351. Perhaps you'd like to supply an example ?

    Perhaps, I am mistaken, but I was under the impression that you were pursuing a civil case against the City of Belle Meade and its Police Dept. for your detention.



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    ProguninTN wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    ProguninTN wrote:
    As far as the city ordinance kwikrnu cites goes, it is based an a since-repealed state law. (Title 39-6-1701). Carrying loaded in the hand was TN State Law prior to 1989.

    Harris III, John L. Carrying a Handgun for Self-Defense in Tennessee. 3rd. Nashville: John L. Harris, III, 2003. Print. p. 15

    I'm not sure if the City of Belle Meade is still enforcing its old ordinance, we'll have to see the outcome of kwik's case.

    The law is on the books. It is the only legal manner to carry in Belle Meade and other Tennessee cities. What case? You think Belle Meade police will charge me with a crime? If so what crime? I violated no state law and no city law.
    The Belle Meade city ordinance may still be on the books, but the state law which was modeled after is not. (The ordinance is dated 1987, the state law in question was repealed in 1989. See the book I referenced above.) I am not aware of anyone being criminally charge for not obeying the ordinance which you reference. (For the record, yes I have carried in Belle Meade.) I also know of no Municipality or County prosecuting anyone for carrying under 39-17-1351. Perhaps you'd like to supply an example ?

    Perhaps, I am mistaken, but I was under the impression that you were pursuing a civil case against the City of Belle Meade and its Police Dept. for your detention.

    The ordinance was last amended in 1987, but the exception was not added in 1987. The fact that an ordinance was ammended does not mean the previous ordinance was repealed.


    The reenactment of a statute in substantially the same words effects no change in the law, but merely continues the original law in force. Furthermore, no change in the meaning of a statute is effected by its subsequent repeal and reenactment, even though the circumstances have changed.

    73 Am. Jur. 2d
    Statutes § 221 (2009 Update)



    Where a statute is repealed by a new statute which relates to the same subject matter, and which reenacts substantially the provisions of the earlier statute, and the repeal and re-enactment occur simultaneously, the provisions of the original statute which are re-enacted in the new statute are not interrupted in their operation by the so-called repeal; they are regarded as having been continuously in force from the date they were originally enacted.

    77 A.L.R.2d 336,
    Effect of Simultaneous Repeal and Re-enactment of All, or Part, of Legislative Act.



    I do not know if Belle Meade has cited anyone for violation of their ordinance. The Belle Meade law is clear whether enforced or not. Handgun carry in a holsteris prohibited. The carry of any handgun except the army or navy pistol is illegal.

    I have not filed any law suit against the City of Belle Meade or its officers.

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    ProguninTN wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    ProguninTN wrote:
    As far as the city ordinance kwikrnu cites goes, it is based an a since-repealed state law. (Title 39-6-1701). Carrying loaded in the hand was TN State Law prior to 1989.

    Harris III, John L. Carrying a Handgun for Self-Defense in Tennessee. 3rd. Nashville: John L. Harris, III, 2003. Print. p. 15

    I'm not sure if the City of Belle Meade is still enforcing its old ordinance, we'll have to see the outcome of kwik's case.

    The law is on the books. It is the only legal manner to carry in Belle Meade and other Tennessee cities. What case? You think Belle Meade police will charge me with a crime? If so what crime? I violated no state law and no city law.
    The Belle Meade city ordinance may still be on the books, but the state law which was modeled after is not. (The ordinance is dated 1987, the state law in question was repealed in 1989. See the book I referenced above.) I am not aware of anyone being criminally charge for not obeying the ordinance which you reference. (For the record, yes I have carried in Belle Meade.) I also know of no Municipality or County prosecuting anyone for carrying under 39-17-1351. Perhaps you'd like to supply an example ?

    Perhaps, I am mistaken, but I was under the impression that you were pursuing a civil case against the City of Belle Meade and its Police Dept. for your detention.


    I do not know if Belle Meade has cited anyone for violation of their ordinance. The Belle Meade law is clear whether enforced or not. Handgun carry in a holsteris prohibited. The carry of any handgun except the army or navy pistol is illegal.

    I have not filed any law suit against the City of Belle Meade or its officers.

    Reponding to your statement in bold.

    If you don't know of anyone being cited for violating the city ordinance, what was the purpose of your excercize?

    It's a dumb outdated law. Why not go before the city council and request that the ordinance be repealed or amended to reflect what the city does enforce, which is current TN state law?

    There's one thing that you didn't take into consideration before you executed your little excapade. If I ( or any other gun carrier) had been walking along that BLVD and you came walking from behind one of those bushes that are in the median, with that gun in your hand, not knowing who you are or what your intentions were, I most likely would have drawn down on you. In all likelyhood, you wouldn't know what my intentions were either at that point and probably would have made a defenseive move that would have resulted in a shootout between the 2 of us.

    A holstered gun is not a threat - a gun in hand percievably is.

    Your failure to think ahead of everything that could potentially go wrong, makes you a menace to public safety.

    You're still avoiding the issue of why you object to going before the city council to get the city ordinance changed.


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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    ProguninTN wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    ProguninTN wrote:
    As far as the city ordinance kwikrnu cites goes, it is based an a since-repealed state law. (Title 39-6-1701). Carrying loaded in the hand was TN State Law prior to 1989.

    Harris III, John L. Carrying a Handgun for Self-Defense in Tennessee. 3rd. Nashville: John L. Harris, III, 2003. Print. p. 15

    I'm not sure if the City of Belle Meade is still enforcing its old ordinance, we'll have to see the outcome of kwik's case.

    The law is on the books. It is the only legal manner to carry in Belle Meade and other Tennessee cities. What case? You think Belle Meade police will charge me with a crime? If so what crime? I violated no state law and no city law.
    The Belle Meade city ordinance may still be on the books, but the state law which was modeled after is not. (The ordinance is dated 1987, the state law in question was repealed in 1989. See the book I referenced above.) I am not aware of anyone being criminally charge for not obeying the ordinance which you reference. (For the record, yes I have carried in Belle Meade.) I also know of no Municipality or County prosecuting anyone for carrying under 39-17-1351. Perhaps you'd like to supply an example ?

    Perhaps, I am mistaken, but I was under the impression that you were pursuing a civil case against the City of Belle Meade and its Police Dept. for your detention.


    I do not know if Belle Meade has cited anyone for violation of their ordinance. The Belle Meade law is clear whether enforced or not. Handgun carry in a holsteris prohibited. The carry of any handgun except the army or navy pistol is illegal.

    I have not filed any law suit against the City of Belle Meade or its officers.

    Reponding to your statement in bold.

    If you don't know of anyone being cited for violating the city ordinance, what was the purpose of your excercize?

    It's a dumb outdated law. Why not go before the city council and request that the ordinance be repealed or amended to reflect what the city does enforce, which is current TN state law?

    There's one thing that you didn't take into consideration before you executed your little excapade. If I ( or any other gun carrier) had been walking along that BLVD and you came walking from behind one of those bushes that are in the median, with that gun in your hand, not knowing who you are or what your intentions were, I most likely would have drawn down on you. In all likelyhood, you wouldn't know what my intentions were either at that point and probably would have made a defenseive move that would have resulted in a shootout between the 2 of us.

    A holstered gun is not a threat - a gun in hand percievably is.

    Your failure to think ahead of everything that could potentially go wrong, makes you a menace to public safety.

    You're still avoiding the issue of why you object to going before the city council to get the city ordinance changed.
    I took that into consideration. If someone points a gun at me they are very likely to get shot if I can't identify their intentions. I would of had reason to believe you were a criminal because it is illegal to carry a pistol in a holster that you drew from.

    In Belle Meade a holstered pistol is a threat because it is illegal to carry a holstered handgun. A pistol carried openly in the hand is not a threat because it is carried openly and people should know the law.

    The menace to public safety is the one who carries in a manner which is in conflict with city ordinance 11-6-602.

    I don't live in Belle Meade. Why should they change the law because I request? I really need the exercise to shed the pounds. On nice days expect me to walk in Belle Meade. Maybe I'llsee a pattern of cops violating rights, who knows...


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    kwikrnu wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:


    Reponding to your statement in bold.

    If you don't know of anyone being cited for violating the city ordinance, what was the purpose of your excercize?

    It's a dumb outdated law. Why not go before the city council and request that the ordinance be repealed or amended to reflect what the city does enforce, which is current TN state law?

    There's one thing that you didn't take into consideration before you executed your little excapade. If I ( or any other gun carrier) had been walking along that BLVD and you came walking from behind one of those bushes that are in the median, with that gun in your hand, not knowing who you are or what your intentions were, I most likely would have drawn down on you. In all likelyhood, you wouldn't know what my intentions were either at that point and probably would have made a defenseive move that would have resulted in a shootout between the 2 of us.

    A holstered gun is not a threat - a gun in hand percievably is.

    Your failure to think ahead of everything that could potentially go wrong, makes you a menace to public safety.

    You're still avoiding the issue of why you object to going before the city council to get the city ordinance changed.
    I took that into consideration. If someone points a gun at me they are very likely to get shot if I can't identify their intentions. Not if the other person gets his shots off first. (And I would) I would of had reason to believe you were a criminalThe other guy would have reason to believen the same about youbecause it is illegal to carry a pistol in a holster that you drew from. Does this mean you would shoot somebody just because they had a holstered handgun on their hip? Man are you dangerous.

    In Belle Meade a holstered pistol is a threat because it is illegal to carry a holstered handgun. A pistol carried openly in the hand is not a threat because it is carried openly and people should know the law. This sounds justas assinine as the arguments the Brady Bunch spew over citizens carrying arms for SD in public. Cite one incident in which a holstered gun shot some one. We can cite hundreds of incidents in which some one was shot with a gun carried "in hand", accidentally and on purpose. Forget the legalities, a holstered handgun is not a threat, ahandgun in the hand does posse a potential threat.

    The menace to public safety is the one who carries in a manner which is in conflict with city ordinance 11-6-602.

    I don't live in Belle Meade. Why should they change the law because I request? You don't need to live right in Belle Meade. You do shop there don't you? I really need the exercise to shed the pounds. On nice days expect me to walk in Belle Meade. Maybe I'llsee a pattern of cops violating rights, What? You mean you haven't seen a pattern, yet? :shock:Could it be that none exists in Belle Meade?who knows...

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    You'll have to read more carefully to determine under which circumstances I'd shoot. I said if someone drew their gun from a holster in Belle Meadeand pointed at me. I would have to be in fear of my life. Why would I shoot someone with a holstered gun? I'd just call the police to report a crime in progress.

    If you would shoot someone for simply carrying a handgun openly in the hand you would be wrong. Contrary to what the cop states in the video you can't shoot people who look threatening.

    Open carry "in the hand" is the law. It is the only manner to legally carry. So, that is how I'll carry.

    A pattern is more than one incident.

    No, I don't shop in Belle Meade.

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    You'll have to read more carefully to determine under which circumstances I'd shoot. I said if someone drew their gun from a holster in Belle Meade*and pointed at me. I would have to be in fear of my life. Why would I shoot someone with a holstered gun? I'd just call the police to report a crime in progress.


    No, I don't shop in Belle Meade.
    heres a suggestion...... mind your own business... would you want someone call police cuz your carrying a holstered weapon??? Come on now..... THINK .... Now if he brandishes it thats a whole nother ball of wax.. Support your fellow toters not hinder

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    stuckinchico wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    You'll have to read more carefully to determine under which circumstances I'd shoot. I said if someone drew their gun from a holster in Belle Meadeand pointed at me. I would have to be in fear of my life. Why would I shoot someone with a holstered gun? I'd just call the police to report a crime in progress.


    No, I don't shop in Belle Meade.
    heres a suggestion...... mind your own business... would you want someone call police cuz your carrying a holstered weapon??? Come on now..... THINK .... Now if he brandishes it thats a whole nother ball of wax.. Support your fellow toters not hinder
    Carrying a holstered handgun is illegal in Belle Meade. Only someone intent on breaking the law would carry a holstered handgun. Yes, there is case law supporting this.

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    Yes that may be the case, but be a solution, approach inform, and educate. DOnt give em fuel to try to take OC away like they re trying in CA

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    I'll be traveling through next week and wanted to be as clear as possible on the laws but TN seems to be a realbackasswordsstate, so please be kind enough to answer my silly questions.

    Are there any cities along 75 with special laws not pre-empted that I should know about?

    My CC permit is the permit that they refer to forOCright?

    Can I carry with one in the pipe, legally?(IDK where revolvers would fit in)

    With regards to outlawing of holster carry (Belle Meade), Does that go for CC too? Does in the pants qualify as a holster?(this is problyin my top50 stupid laws)

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    steveman01 wrote:
    I'll be traveling through next week and wanted to be as clear as possible on the laws but TN seems to be a realbackasswordsstate, so please be kind enough to answer my silly questions.

    Are there any cities along 75 with special laws not pre-empted that I should know about?
    Not sure about cities with not-preempted laws. Carry in city/county parks may differ, though.

    My CC permit is the permit that they refer to forOCright? Yes

    Can I carry with one in the pipe, legally?(IDK where revolvers would fit in) In regard to handguns, yes. Longguns no

    With regards to outlawing of holster carry (Belle Meade), Does that go for CC too? Does in the pants qualify as a holster?(this is problyin my top50 stupid laws) Belle Meade does not enforce the old city ordinance, They enforce State Law.
    Answers in Red

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    Yeah, forgot about parks. good call thanks.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    steveman01 wrote:
    I'll be traveling through next week and wanted to be as clear as possible on the laws but TN seems to be a realbackasswordsstate, so please be kind enough to answer my silly questions.

    Are there any cities along 75 with special laws not pre-empted that I should know about?
    Not sure about cities with not-preempted laws. Carry in city/county parks may differ, though.

    My CC permit is the permit that they refer to forOCright? Yes

    Can I carry with one in the pipe, legally?(IDK where revolvers would fit in) In regard to handguns, yes. Longguns no

    With regards to outlawing of holster carry (Belle Meade), Does that go for CC too? Does in the pants qualify as a holster?(this is problyin my top50 stupid laws) Belle Meade does not enforce the old city ordinance, They enforce State Law.
    Answers in Red
    Belle Meade can and will enforce their current City ordinance 11-602. It does require that only army or navy pistol may be carried openly in the hand. To state differently is untruthful and is liable to get someone into trouble.

    BTW, anything you say to Task Force 16 may end up in the hands of law enforcement. He's our forum "tattle tell" from lobelville.

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    Advice to anyone wishng to carry in Tennessee...

    Do NOT, repeat...

    Do NOT listen to what Kwikrnu tells you. Unless you want your permit revoked as well.

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    Grassroots wrote:
    Advice to anyone wishng to carry in Tennessee...

    Do NOT, repeat...

    Do NOT listen to what Kwikrnu tells you. Unless you want your permit revoked as well.
    Whose permit was revoked?

    Please cite the carry law in the City of Belle Meade.

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    Grassroots wrote:
    Advice to anyone wishng to carry in Tennessee...

    Do NOT, repeat...

    Do NOT listen to what Kwikrnu tells you. Unless you want your permit revoked as well.
    Whose permit was revoked?

    Please cite the carry law in the City of Belle Meade.

    Wow... Are you serious? Are you now stating that your handgun carry permit wasn't/isn't revoked?


    Edit: Revoked/Suspended.. Is that better? I don't need to cite it Leonard... You've done it enough for everyone here.


    Not to mention, you act like a friggin child.. Seriously? "Here the forum tattle tell from Lobelville". So you don't like others giving out your personal information but it's okay for you to do it? Gah man grow up!


  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    guntersville, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    111

    Post imported post

    Not tryin' to take sides here, but to be honest I've read a lot of kwik's posts and he seems to know the laws better than most. I'm some what of a fan of his as he is willing to act rather than sit on his duff. I like a man willing to stand his ground and exercise his rights...anywho:

    Any cities, counties, or parks I should keep an eye out for?

    Will be traveling 75, and maybe stopping at my cousin's house in Sneedville.

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