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Thread: Water Street Walkabout.

  1. #1
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    After the trash pick up, We went for lunch at the Sahara Saloon. While eating, we discussed future OC events. We decided on Henderson, since we have not OC'ed there before we thought it best to notify as a courtesy. My letter is below, Tim will post details. as well as any feedback we get.



    To Whom It May Concern:



    I would like to inform you of an excursion, which a few friends and I plan to, embark on in your City. A common thread that exists among my friends, is the fact that we all lawfully Open Carry are firearms, and we all feel it is important that we are an asset to the community.



    We are not asking permission, or applying for a permit; simply put we are giving this notice as a courtesy. This will take place the weekend of Feb. 20-21



    We have had great experiences with North Las Vegas, and METRO, with no problems. METRO has developed an Officer training program, which could prove helpful, should your City choose to implement it.



    We expect our water street walk to go off without a hitch. However should you have concerns, please feel free to contact me.





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    I wish I could join you on your little walk, however my days of going any distance are over I'm afraid.

    Might I make a suggestion? You are sending a letter to notify the PD of your intent, which is good. The problem is that it can be perceived as a a sort of "in your face" demonstration. A person not clued in to your true motives may decide you are just a bunch of trouble makers thumbing your nose at the good citizens and law enforcement of the area. Nothing could be further from the truth than that of course, but if you stop and think about it I think you might a agree they could see it that way. In other words they are guessing at your motives.

    Why not take the opportunity to sell it as a Public Information Event. Tell them that it is your intent to hand out a flyer and speak to people about the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. And as a part of the event you will all be openly carrying your firearms.

    I would be happy to help draft a simple handout, and would be willing to print up some copies for the group. I would not think it would take too many for water street as you most likely will not encounter very many people there.

    Just a suggestion. If i can help, let me know.




    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    ".... my days of going any distance are over I'm afraid."

    Sounds like we're both in the same boat, Big Guy. I'm basically the old, fat, seasoned citizen bringing up the rear (and the rear never goes very far).

    Only thing I can bend over to pick up is a Benjamin. I made it to the trash pickup at Metro today, and did OK with one of those grabber things. Lasted about 20 minutes before I went to my Plan B -- home....dry clothes....Miller GD.

    I'll probably do much the same for a Henderson event. After all, somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud while the heroes march by.

    Come out to help represent the sedentary wing.
    "Let your gun be your companion on all your walks."
    -- Thomas Jefferson
    who might have wished he carried my .45ACP G-36 1+6+1

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    I have a feeling that Water street will have a outdoor cafe of sorts. We can park the "injured reserves" do our stroll and come back for a meal. I will check that out and report back.

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    DON`T TREAD ON ME wrote:
    I have a feeling that Water street will have a outdoor cafe of sorts. We can park the "injured reserves" do our stroll and come back for a meal. I will check that out and report back.
    Perfect! Count me in. By the time the kids get back, we'll have a full:P report ready on the appetizers.
    "Let your gun be your companion on all your walks."
    -- Thomas Jefferson
    who might have wished he carried my .45ACP G-36 1+6+1

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    Well I would love to go. I can if its on a saturday night or sunday anytime

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    My wife said if I would stay with the kids, she'd come down and walk with you. Me thinks there is an ulterior motive there...
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    DON`T TREAD ON ME wrote:

    "...I would like to inform you of an excursion, which a few friends and I plan to, embark on in your City. A common thread that exists among my friends, is the fact that we all lawfully Open Carryare firearms, and we all feel it is important that we are an asset to the community..."


    I was once told a long time ago by a professional word processor that you will be given more credibilty in your message if yourchoice of words are used appropriately as well as other factors such as spelling, proper punctuation, sentenceand paragraph structure.

    I believe you and others would agree that in these days of deteriating gun rights, we, in all aspects,should show others just how professional and responsible we law abiding gunowners are in allaspects of life in order to further change thepersona of gunowners in a more positive image.


    I support and applaud you for yourendeavour to promotethis upcoming event with the City of Henderson andapprizing themof such. Pleaseaccept this as friendly writingadvice and not as criticism for yourletter here in order to furtheradvance our rights.


    In your message here, your use of the word "are", asI highlighted in bold at the top of the page, is incorrect.It should be "our firearms" as I corrected and pasted below.


    "...A common thread that exists among my friends, is the fact that we all lawfully Open Carryour firearms, ..."

    I believe that many of us here are notEnglish majors. I know that I am not. Most of us do misuse wordsin our daily writings.There are those that have poor sentence structure that leaves us stratching our heads wondering what was meant by either the poster or the replier.I see it here on this and other forums. Most of the time it is no big deal to us. We read through it, understand themeaning of the writer and move on to the next posting. But these days, I feel it isof absolute importance that we communicate effectivelyand professionally to any authority, especially thosethat do affect and can effect our gun rights, in all of our verbal or written communications.

    Again, Ipraise your spirit here. Although, in my unprofessional opinion, this one word mistake alone destroys the credibleness ofthewriter in a world and the eyes of the reader that wishes to dispense of our rights.

    The lettercontent, again in my unprofessional opinion, also seems to show anarrogance on behalf of its writer and/or its participantsof this gathering, as if you dare authority to stop us for exercising our rights. As a law abiding gun owner and carrier, I would not participate in this event due to its haughtiness nature.

    Iknow here that your intentions are admirable.I would ask that youtake the time and re-read yourfuture letters for correctness.Triple check every word and maybe have otherschime in on their opinion of its content and purpose before sending it to its intended person of authority.

    Although we humans are not perfect in nature (and I know am not one of them), we have to remember to be very professional in everything we do when exercising our 2nd Amendent rights, including preparing and sending professional looking and strong, supportive letters or emails to those that are out to limit or eliminate those rights.Together, we can move mountains toward accomplishing many commons goals.









  9. #9
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    I'm sure that DON'T TREAD ON ME can/will speak for himself, but I think it's a matter of goals that should set our tone.

    We want LEO to accept OC by any law-abiding citizen.

    With this the goal, we shouldn't be getting them to know us at a meet-and-greet BBQ or shoot-together. Thus, I think a cool, distant, and polite attitude is best. Maybe a little stiff tone will even help get their attention.

    That can be kinda hard for me, as I'm the type to want to make nice with everybody I meet. But we are goal oriented, and I think the letter is appropriate.

    Having said that, your posts sounds like we are on the same page basically. You make some excellent points about how hard it is to communicate effectively. People read intentions not meant by authors all the time. Draft, redraft, try again. Takes time and work, but pays off.
    -------------
    Correct me where I'm wrong, guys. It wouldn't be for the first time.

    "Let your gun be your companion on all your walks."
    -- Thomas Jefferson
    who might have wished he carried my .45ACP G-36 1+6+1

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    takemine2 wrote:
    DON`T TREAD ON ME wrote:

    "...I would like to inform you of an excursion, which a few friends and I plan to, embark on in your City. A common thread that exists among my friends, is the fact that we all lawfully Open Carryare firearms, and we all feel it is important that we are an asset to the community..."


    I was once told a long time ago by a professional word processor that you will be given more credibilty in your message if yourchoice of words are used appropriately as well as other factors such as spelling, proper punctuation, sentenceand paragraph structure.

    I believe you and others would agree that in these days of deteriating gun rights, we, in all aspects,should show others just how professional and responsible we law abiding gunowners are in allaspects of life in order to further change thepersona of gunowners in a more positive image.


    I support and applaud you for yourendeavour to promotethis upcoming event with the City of Henderson andapprizing themof such. Pleaseaccept this as friendly writingadvice and not as criticism for yourletter here in order to furtheradvance our rights.


    In your message here, your use of the word "are", asI highlighted in bold at the top of the page, is incorrect.It should be "our firearms" as I corrected and pasted below.


    "...A common thread that exists among my friends, is the fact that we all lawfully Open Carryour firearms, ..."

    I believe that many of us here are notEnglish majors. I know that I am not. Most of us do misuse wordsin our daily writings.There are those that have poor sentence structure that leaves us stratching our heads wondering what was meant by either the poster or the replier.I see it here on this and other forums. Most of the time it is no big deal to us. We read through it, understand themeaning of the writer and move on to the next posting. But these days, I feel it isof absolute importance that we communicate effectivelyand professionally to any authority, especially thosethat do affect and can effect our gun rights, in all of our verbal or written communications.

    Again, Ipraise your spirit here. Although, in my unprofessional opinion, this one word mistake alone destroys the credibleness ofthewriter in a world and the eyes of the reader that wishes to dispense of our rights.

    The lettercontent, again in my unprofessional opinion, also seems to show anarrogance on behalf of its writer and/or its participantsof this gathering, as if you dare authority to stop us for exercising our rights. As a law abiding gun owner and carrier, I would not participate in this event due to its haughtiness nature.

    Iknow here that your intentions are admirable.I would ask that youtake the time and re-read yourfuture letters for correctness.Triple check every word and maybe have otherschime in on their opinion of its content and purpose before sending it to its intended person of authority.

    Although we humans are not perfect in nature (and I know am not one of them), we have to remember to be very professional in everything we do when exercising our 2nd Amendent rights, including preparing and sending professional looking and strong, supportive letters or emails to those that are out to limit or eliminate those rights.Together, we can move mountains toward accomplishing many commons goals.







    Thank you, takemine2

    Your input on my English skill, is very helpful. I have been corrected on this forum more than once, but not about the same thing twice.

    I usually write about 3-5 letters a day sticking up for our rights. That alone helps me improve. As much as I would like to just send my letter over and get it graded / corrected, I find that it would make it much harder for me to learn.

    You wrote:

    The lettercontent, again in my unprofessional opinion, also seems to show anarrogance on behalf of its writer and/or its participantsof this gathering, as if you dare authority to stop us for exercising our rights. As a law abiding gun owner and carrier, I would not participate in this event due to its haughtiness nature.

    I don't see the "challenge" that you imply. Simply put I have had some dealings with the city attorneys office in Henderson, happen to have their email addresses already so I offered to write.

    I am sorry if I misrepresented the crew, but I thought I covered the bases, In short I was asking them to get their act together in advance, with out telling them what to do.

    I stated our willingness to get along, Provided a track record of sorts. and showed our willingness to communicate, should questions arise.

    I do appreciate your input, andI promise to represent better when writing letters.I challenge you to come out and see for yourself,how arrogant this crew really is. you may be pleasantly surprised. We don't mind if you want to CC while you check things out.

    Unfortunately, due to the fact that most gun owners have been bullied into "concealing" their beliefs. the minority that are not going to be bullied, will come off to some as arrogant. How does one distribute blame?

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    DON`T TREAD ON ME wrote:

    [/quote]
    "Thank you, takemine2

    Your input on my English skill, is very helpful. I have been corrected on this forum more than once, but not about the same thing twice.

    I usually write about 3-5 letters a day sticking up for our rights. That alone helps me improve. As much as I would like to just send my letter over and get it graded / corrected, I find that it would make it much harder for me to learn.

    You wrote:

    The letterĀ*content, again in my unprofessional opinion, also seems to show anĀ*arrogance on behalf of its writer and/or its participantsĀ*of this gathering, as if you dare authority to stop us for exercising our rights. As a law abiding gun owner and carrier, I would not participate in this event due to its haughtiness nature.

    I don't see the "challenge" that you imply. Simply put I have had some dealings with the city attorneys office in Henderson, happen to have their email addresses already so I offered to write.

    I am sorry if I misrepresented the crew, but I thought I covered the bases, In short I was asking them to get their act together in advance, with out telling them what to do.

    I stated our willingness to get along, Provided a track record of sorts. and showed our willingness to communicate, should questions arise.

    I do appreciate your input, andĀ*I promise to represent better when writing letters.Ā*I challenge you to come out and see for yourself,Ā*how arrogant this crew really is. you may be pleasantly surprised. We don't mind if you want to CC while you check things out.

    Unfortunately, due to the fact that most gun owners have been bullied into "concealing" their beliefs. the minority that are not going to be bullied, will come off to some as arrogant. How does one distribute blame?
    [/quote]"

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    I do not believe that you or your other carrier friends are arrogant. I do not believe that any of us here are. I believe that IF any of us do display ANY TYPE of arrogance in our carrying of firearms, that attitude may get us into trouble down the road. Just my belief...

    It was this sentence in your letter that the intended recipient of your letter MAY interpret this as being arrogant, defiant or even insubordinate:

    "...We are not asking permission, or applying for a permit; simply put we are giving this notice as a courtesy. This will take place the weekend of Feb. 20-21..."

    The purpose of my reply again, was not to criticize you on your English writing skills but to hopefully shed some light on, in my opinion, the importance of sending a properly structured letter or email to any person of authority that can and may have an adverse affect on our rights, including the attendance of a simple, friendly gathering as you have planned.

    It is the "image" that we all have to protect (one of many images). Sending off emails and letters with the type of grammar errors as previously stated MAY have an unfavorable image within the eyes of those with any type of authoritative power. I feel that in order to be recognized as a credible bunch of guys working to protect our freedoms, it should be imperative to forward to those individuals, the type of properly written letters or emails as previously stated.

    I again, applaud you and I thank you for what you are doing to strengthen our rights. Every small thing we can do to improve the image of gun owners will have a greater, positive impact on our rights down the road.

    Feel free to PM your days off. Maybe we can meet and chat...

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    Its all good, I would not mind explaining my correspondence , at all



    I don"t know If you ever have written municipality's, with information requests, but for those who have not , here is the run down.

    If you send one info request letter to 5 different City's, I will expect you get four different answers.

    I included the not asking permission, or applying for a permit, to help the girl that opens the mail out,And believe me she appreciates it.as she need to know where to distribute, and i did not want to end up at the parade Dept.

    I will PM you, and look forward to meeting you, as you have inspired me to subscribe to the "English tip of the day" website. and will be a great asset to our group.





    Here is a little tool I found to help look up better words for when we write our letters

    http://thesaurus.reference.com








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    Man, take a day away from the computer and 100 new posts! Wow!

    So, let's get together Saturday February 20 @ 10am. We'll meet at the corner of Water St & Atlantic. There's a cafe there on the northeast corner. They have outside tables. There didn't seem to be much of interest south of there.

    There are a few coffee shops and other little eateries & bars up and down Water St. There are also a handful of shops up Pacific St (west from Water St), including a gun shop called Spurlocks.

    The only activity on Henderson's website for that day is the reopening of a book shop across from the gun shop. Looks like it will just an opportunity for us all to get together and socialize, visit some of the local shops, and have lunch.

    I sent an email off to Henderson PD. We'll see if they reply and what they have to say.

    Tim

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    I have to say I do not see the need to write a letter. To me that is giving them a power that they dont need to 'THINK' they have.

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    I would recommend also notifying the local establishments of what you are trying to accomplish. This would probably go along way in creating an understanding of your intent as opposed to scaring a bunch of "sheep".

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    By writing letters and calling people you are just making a mountian out of a molehill. Either a biz will be ok with it or they wont but calling asking permission or stating what you are doing is silly. It makes it seem more like a protest than just a everyday thing. And that is what we want, OC to ba a everyday thing. I see no need to call every place I am going to be going to today and telling them I will carry.

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    Vegassteve wrote:
    By writing letters and calling people you are just making a mountian out of a molehill. Either a biz will be ok with it or they wont but calling asking permission or stating what you are doing is silly. It makes it seem more like a protest than just a everyday thing. And that is what we want, OC to ba a everyday thing. I see no need to call every place I am going to be going to today and telling them I will carry.
    I don't think that writing or calling HPD is silly. If someone sees a group of guys and gals(all carrying guns), and call the police to report multiple 413's, then you just wasted a couple of officers' time. We all get that we are trying to make OC an everyday thing, but do groups of 5+ people OC together everyday??

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    Vegassteve wrote:
    I have to say I do not see the need to write a letter. To me that is giving them a power that they dont need to 'THINK' they have.
    We only give them power if we allow their response to dictate our actions, we have correspondence now indicating our intentions, and they have responded positively."Enjoy our City".

    We as a group have not had one bad OC experience, not saying we won't, but so far so good. Hope to see you out there.

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    Chief Chambers-

    I am writing to let you know that I will be visiting your city in two weeks along with several of my friends to have lunch and visit the shops around downtown Henderson on Water Street. We all carry our firearms openly on a regular basis and have met at various locations around Las Vegas. In the past month, we've met on the Las Vegas Strip, downtown Las Vegas at the Fremont Street Experience, and performed community service by picking up litter in front of the LVMPD Convention Center Area Command, all while openly carrying our firearms.

    I wanted to let you know that we'll be visiting your city so that you may have time to put together a memo for your officers and 911 dispatchers, if you feel it necessary. As you know, the open carry of a firearm is not illegal in the State of Nevada, and absent exigent circumstances, the presence of a firearm does not form the basis for a lawful detention of a citizen by police. It is my understanding that there was not a single call to 911 regarding "man with a gun" during any of our get-togethers, but having 911 operators trained to differentiate between a person openly carrying a firearm and a person with a firearm who is an actual threat is a good thing, just in case.

    In each of our planned meet-ups, I discussed our plans to meet in Las Vegas with various officials within the LVMPD. They acknowledged the fact that an openly carried firearm is not unlawful and thanked us for providing advance notice of our plans. Las Vegas police maintained the expected level of professionalism and did not approach any law-abiding citizens, other than to thank us for our community service. In much the same way, I am hoping that by providing you with advance notice of our plans, we can avoid any unnecessary interactions between police and law-abiding citizens.

    Long-term, it is desired that advance notice of our get-togethers needn't be provided to police, since we're law-abiding citizens participating in lawful activities. But given the serious nature of firearms and the relative small size of our group at present (and thus, the low likelihood your officers have encountered one of us yet), I feel it is in everyone's best interest to keep the lines of communication open and clear for now.

    LVMPD created a training for their officers entitled "Open Carry" which discusses the legality of citizens carrying their firearms non-concealed, and presents officers with scenarios on how to deal with openly-carried firearms. I'm assuming LVMPD would be willing to share this course with your department if requested. I contacted Sgt John Loretto with the Public Information Office to get a copy of the training for myself. I've met with Captain Charles Hank of the Convention Center Area Command to discuss our meet-up plans, and he is also well-aware of the training in question and may be a good person to contact as well.

    I request and would appreciate a reply indicating your receipt of this email.

    Thanks!
    Tim

    On behalf of Chief Chambers, who is out of the office today, I wanted to respond and thank you for advance notice of your visit to our fine city. Agreed that while carrying firearms openly is not illegal, it does often surprise citizens and we do get calls inquiring about laws of such.

    Iā€™ve passed along your information to our Deputy Chiefs as well. We should be able to have additional responses to you later this week.

    We hope you enjoy your time and endeavors in Henderson and the surrounding areas. Thank you for your service to our communities.
    There has been no further response.

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    Tim;
    :P:celebrate
    "Let your gun be your companion on all your walks."
    -- Thomas Jefferson
    who might have wished he carried my .45ACP G-36 1+6+1

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    To remind everyone, we're getting together Saturday February 20 @ 10am. We'll meet at the corner of Water St & Atlantic in Henderson.

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    A little more info on the Water St District.

    http://www.waterstreetdistrict.com/

  23. #23
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    OK, I vote for Coo Coo's as an anchor spot (I make a good anchor). Besides, I like the name .... it's kinda the way I am most of the time.
    "Let your gun be your companion on all your walks."
    -- Thomas Jefferson
    who might have wished he carried my .45ACP G-36 1+6+1

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    10am!!!! geez!! I'm about 90% I will make it there. Look forward to meeting you guys like I have done in Kali.

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    I think I'll finally be able to make it to an OC event! I live in Henderson, so I have no excuse not to show up Looking forward to meeting you guys.

    P.S.

    Just read the response from HPD and boy, was I surprised. I've heard HPD wasn't exactly friendly to armed citizens. I'm glad it's not true.





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