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Thread: NEVER Walk Down the Street At Night With A Gun In Your Hand

  1. #1
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    A toy is not a gun. And a gunis not a toy. There's a lesson here,perhaps,for amishrebel about the former, for kwikrnu on the latter








    Man wielding realistic-looking BB gun shot twice by cops in Bushwick showdown
    BY Joe Jackson and Jonathan Lemire
    DAILY NEWS WRITERS

    Saturday, February 6th 2010, 2:07 PM



    A 61-year-old man wielding a realistic-looking BB gun was shot twice by cops early Saturday after a tense confrontation on a busy Brooklyn street, police and witnesses said.

    The gunman was hit in the left side of his torso and thigh and was listed in stable condition at Elmhurst General Hospital, police said.

    The showdown, which sent several pedestrians scurrying for cover, erupted shortly after a witness called 911 at 1:50 a.m. to report that a man was walking down Linden St. in Bushwick carrying a gun, police said.

    A marked police van roared to the scene and three uniformed cops hopped out at the corner of Wyckoff Ave., witnesses said.

    "They pulled out their guns straight away," said witness Bryan Cisneros, 18. "I heard them shouting."

    Witnesses told investigators that the three cops took cover behind cars parked along Linden St. and shouted for the man to drop his gun, police said.

    The man refused, instead whirling at the cops and pointing his weapon - which had a brown handle and a black barrel - at the officers, police said. "Then I heard the shots," said Cisneros.

    "I just ran. I'd never heard gunshots like that before."

    The gunman, whose name was not released, collapsed in the street and dropped his BB-gun.

    The cops were not hurt.

    "I was sleeping [but] I woke up when I heard like two or three shots," said neighbor Miguel Matias, 25.

    "I see the whole block full of cops and somebody in an ambulance." Investigators believe that one officer fired twice, with both bullets hitting the suspect.

    Police sources said it appeared the cops, who are all assigned to the 83rd Precinct, behaved appropriately because the suspect was holding what appeared to be a real weapon.

    Detectives returned to the scene after sunrise to confiscate surveillance footage from several nearby businesses, including a White Castle.

    Charges against the suspect are pending, police said.


    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c..._showdown.html



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    Might be another case of "suicide by cop."

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I wonder why the newspaper didn't label him "the BBGunman"...

    TFred


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    If you wanna test something like this out......cause a disturbance and point a pseudo gun at the cops. I would have fired if the facts are so.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Seems the cops acted appropriately... but I never really trust a newspaper article.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Regular Member NY2AZ's Avatar
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    t33j wrote:
    Seems the cops acted appropriately... but I never really trust a newspaper article.
    I definitely agree with you t33j; especially when it comes to the NYPD. These are the same guys who shot amadou dialllo 40+ times simply because they "thought" he had a gun. damn hoplophobes
    If ever you find yourself in a situation where you can't be safe, be violent!

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    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    I can't say anything negative about three cops responding and shooting this guy only twice. I do believe I would have shot him more than that if he had pointed that gun at me.

    Stupid should hurt!.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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    NY2AZ wrote:
    t33j wrote:
    Seems the cops acted appropriately... but I never really trust a newspaper article.
    I definitely agree with you t33j; especially when it comes to the NYPD. These are the same guys who shot amadou dialllo 40+ times simply because they "thought" he had a gun. damn hoplophobes
    Read this, and then see if you want to rethink that statement.

    http://www.forcescience.org/fsinews/...nk-you-should/

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    Regular Member NY2AZ's Avatar
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    Flyer22 wrote:
    NY2AZ wrote:
    t33j wrote:
    Seems the cops acted appropriately... but I never really trust a newspaper article.
    I definitely agree with you t33j; especially when it comes to the NYPD. These are the same guys who shot amadou dialllo 40+ times simply because they "thought" he had a gun. damn hoplophobes
    Read this, and then see if you want to rethink that statement.

    http://www.forcescience.org/fsinews/...nk-you-should/
    You have a point there. I'm not going to argue with that article. The thing is, I'll be the first to admit that I have a bias against New York and it's police department. Not the officers themselves. I actually have family and friends with the NYPD. I just hate their policies, and some of the ways they operate. So yeah...I'm just biased!

    sorry to interject my bias into the forum. I'll try to avoid such in the future.
    If ever you find yourself in a situation where you can't be safe, be violent!

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    "Witnesses told investigators that the three cops took cover behind cars parked along Linden St. and shouted for the man to drop his gun, police said.

    The man refused, instead whirling at the cops and pointing his weapon - which had a brown handle and a black barrel - at the officers, police said. "Then I heard the shots," said Cisneros."


    taken from the story above



    So, the man carried what appeared to be a gun in his hand (which is illegal in NYC). Then, when ordered to drop the gun he pointed it at police.

    That sounds almost exactly like what I did in Belle Meade except in Belle Meade it is legal to open carry in the hand (it is the only legal way), I didn't point my real pistol at cops and I walked away.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I really wouldn't want to have anything but air in my hands should the police roll up. Interesting about the difference in reaction.

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    longwatch wrote:
    I really wouldn't want to have anything but air in my hands should the police roll up. Interesting about the difference in reaction.
    I'm with you. There is a moment of truth there. Tricky.


    How about if you're walking down the street, gun in hand (it's legal wherever you are), and a couple of non-LEOs (apparently) rolled up and said "Hey, you! What the ?!#@ you doing? Who ARE YOU!?".....while reaching their right hands to their belt on the right side of their hips?

    What do you show then?

  13. #13
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    NEVER Walk Down the Street At Night With A Gun In Your Hand

    Is this a corollary to HankT's postulate?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    I really wouldn't want to have anything but air in my hands should the police roll up. Interesting about the difference in reaction.
    I'm with you. There is a moment of truth there. Tricky.


    How about if you're walking down the street, gun in hand (it's legal wherever you are), and a couple of non-LEOs (apparently) rolled up and said "Hey, you! What the ?!#@ you doing? Who ARE YOU!?".....while reaching their right hands to their belt on the right side of their hips?

    What do you show then?
    If I'm carrying a cap and ball Colt, because thats all I could be legally carrying in your hypothetical, I'm running, in the words of Waylon Jennings, its quick to get you into trouble but slow to get you out.


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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    slongwatch wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    I really wouldn't want to have anything but air in my hands should the police roll up. Interesting about the difference in reaction.
    I'm with you. There is a moment of truth there. Tricky.


    How about if you're walking down the street, gun in hand (it's legal wherever you are), and a couple of non-LEOs (apparently) rolled up and said "Hey, you! What the ?!#@ you doing? Who ARE YOU!?".....while reaching their right hands to their belt on the right side of their hips?

    What do you show then?
    If I'm carrying a cap and ball Colt, because thats all I could be legally carrying in your hypothetical, I'm running, in the words of Waylon Jennings, its quick to get you into trouble but slow to get you out.
    That line was about the Peacemaker, "It'll get you into trouble, but it can't get you out." Not sure I agree with Waylon on that one. The cap and ball Colt went "it'll shoot as fast as lightning, but it loads a mite slow..." I love that song! Remember they played it in the movie "Betrayed" several times.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Actually there are a few people that have posted in their opinions that they had enough training an practice that even if they didn't have the gun in had they were still fast enough to take out a couple of people holding guns on them before theywould get shot. I am not on of them and am not putting much faith in movies that show how to do it. Two people holding a gun on me and tell me to put it down I am going to do it very carefully. If I reach for my wallet they are going to know what I am reaching for. I am not Superman who stands there taking bullets but ducks when they throw the gun.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    PT111 wrote:
    Actually there are a few people that have posted in their opinions that they had enough training an practice that even if they didn't have the gun in had they were still fast enough to take out a couple of people holding guns on them before theywould get shot. I am not on of them and am not putting much faith in movies that show how to do it. Two people holding a gun on me and tell me to put it down I am going to do it very carefully. If I reach for my wallet they are going to know what I am reaching for. I am not Superman who stands there taking bullets but ducks when they throw the gun.
    It almost sounds like we have the beginnings of a new legend:

    "I'm no DiDonato!"

    Who said that?

    TFred


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    If someone has a gun on me (i.e.,I failed to employ "situational awareness"), I will be the first to admit I'm in big trouble if my gun is still in my holster/pocket!

    Were I Steven Seagal, however, then it'd be another story. :shock:

    I wouldn't get within arm's reachof that guy whether I was pointing a gun at him or not (and no, he's not just an actor). He MIGHT be slowing down as he gets older, but were I a criminal, *I* sure wouldn't want to try to mug/rob THAT guy.

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Gunslinger wrote:
    slongwatch wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    I really wouldn't want to have anything but air in my hands should the police roll up. Interesting about the difference in reaction.
    I'm with you. There is a moment of truth there. Tricky.


    How about if you're walking down the street, gun in hand (it's legal wherever you are), and a couple of non-LEOs (apparently) rolled up and said "Hey, you! What the ?!#@ you doing? Who ARE YOU!?".....while reaching their right hands to their belt on the right side of their hips?

    What do you show then?
    If I'm carrying a cap and ball Colt, because thats all I could be legally carrying in your hypothetical, I'm running, in the words of Waylon Jennings, its quick to get you into trouble but slow to get you out.
    That line was about the Peacemaker, "It'll get you into trouble, but it can't get you out." Not sure I agree with Waylon on that one. The cap and ball Colt went "it'll shoot as fast as lightning, but it loads a mite slow..." I love that song! Remember they played it in the movie "Betrayed" several times.
    http://www.lyricsdomain.com/19/steve_earle/the_devils_right_hand.html
    My very first pistol was a cap and ball Colt
    Shoot as fast as lightnin' but it loads a mite slow
    Loads a mite slow and soon I found out
    It can get you into trouble but it can't get you out
    So then I went and bought myself a Colt 45
    Called a peacemaker but I never knew why
    Never knew why, I didn't understand
    Cause Mama said the pistol is the devil's right hand


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    Similar happened in Louisville a short while ago. Perp chased cop with a hammer and procured a paintball gun to threaten them. Was shot and died.:shock:

  21. #21
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    It's ALL in the wording....



    Detectives returned to the scene after sunrise to confiscate surveillance footage from several nearby businesses, including a White Castle.


    The wording alone makes me suspect.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    A lot of the prior BS about the orange tip, has been proven to be nonsensical from a law enforcement standpoint.

    As a LEO, or even a LAC, it is hard to fault someone for firing on another individual when what may even appear to be a toy, is pointed straight at them. HankT's postulation in this case is nothing but much accepted ammunition for my own personal case regarding kwikrnu's actions.

    #1. "Police don't care if it has a orange tip or not, and neither should you!"

    Mass manufacturing toys that bear exact resemblance to actual firearms is just stupid. Thinking in any way that is acceptable to point anything resembling a firearm, at another human being, is just STUPID.

    I even perused several other LEO forums to see what they were saying about toy firearms, and would you like to know what the consensus was? They didn't give a **** whether it had a orange tip, a blue hand grip, or a smurf for a front sight post.

    So what emphasis does/should an orange tip have in any situation regarding a firearm or what looks like a firearm?

    Oh that's right. Nothing at all...


    HankT's postulation has drastically failed him in this thread, and the fantasy land his self proclaimed postulation of self defense lives in, has drastically failed him too.

    What's the saying....?

    Oh yeah..

    Yata Hey
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

  23. #23
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    longwatch wrote:
    Gunslinger wrote:
    slongwatch wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    I really wouldn't want to have anything but air in my hands should the police roll up. Interesting about the difference in reaction.
    I'm with you. There is a moment of truth there. Tricky.


    How about if you're walking down the street, gun in hand (it's legal wherever you are), and a couple of non-LEOs (apparently) rolled up and said "Hey, you! What the ?!#@ you doing? Who ARE YOU!?".....while reaching their right hands to their belt on the right side of their hips?

    What do you show then?
    If I'm carrying a cap and ball Colt, because thats all I could be legally carrying in your hypothetical, I'm running, in the words of Waylon Jennings, its quick to get you into trouble but slow to get you out.
    That line was about the Peacemaker, "It'll get you into trouble, but it can't get you out." Not sure I agree with Waylon on that one. The cap and ball Colt went "it'll shoot as fast as lightning, but it loads a mite slow..." I love that song! Remember they played it in the movie "Betrayed" several times.
    http://www.lyricsdomain.com/19/steve_earle/the_devils_right_hand.html
    My very first pistol was a cap and ball Colt
    Shoot as fast as lightnin' but it loads a mite slow
    Loads a mite slow and soon I found out
    It can get you into trouble but it can't get you out
    So then I went and bought myself a Colt 45
    Called a peacemaker but I never knew why
    Never knew why, I didn't understand
    Cause Mama said the pistol is the devil's right hand
    You're right. I guess the Peacemaker can get you out of trouble.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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