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Thread: Intimidation?

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    I have heard a few different people from the Brady Campaign claim that open carriers are trying to "intimidate" people. They are not saying that our actions may inadvertently intimidate people in some manner in the course of us going about our business. Instead, they seem to be claiming that our goal is specifically to intimidate people.

    Of course, we are not deliberately trying to intimidate people. That is a ridiculous notion. But I am left wondering something: For what purpose do anti-open carriers (mistakenly) believe that we are deliberately intimidating people? Do they believe we simply like to intimidate people for the fun of it? Or do they believe that we are trying to intimidate people to behave in a certain manner?

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    Irrational people have irrational thoughts.

    I stopped trying to figure them out long ago.

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    SouthBayr wrote:
    Irrational people have irrational thoughts.

    I stopped trying to figure them out long ago.
    I second this... its just aggravating to keep trying.

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    http://www.ktvu.com/news/22489381/detail.html

    “It may be legal for me to strap a machete around my waste and go down to the local playground but, reasonable people would find that intimidating and this is an act of intimidation,” said Arntzen.

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    The sheeple believe that no matter what type of gun you own/possess/carry, you are considered a bad guy and that you have no passion for their well being. This thought goes away only if you are wearing government issued polyester and a badge.

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    We are intimidating to criminals. They are criminals, traitors, genociders, and they want their fellow criminals to have a 100% safe working environment, and all law-abiding citizens to be murdered, raped, and maimed. Simple as that.

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    IF the Brady Bunch is intimidated by me wearing my gun, thats their choice, they are so up in the air about gun violence, how many of them have actually had kind of involvement with gun violence? probably none. They are all just band wagon jumpers with no life. They remind me of those Aunts that try to tell you how to raise your kids, but never had any of their own.

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    In comments to news articles I've pointed out that the intent is not intimidation, but this is a protest and the guns replace political signs.

    Most of the negative comments tend to be the typical SF snarky, xenophobic, shallow, knee jerk stuff.

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    The Bradys fear guns. It is an irrational belief. And to push their agenda they use fear and over-sensationalism. It's nothing but propaganda, fueled by irrationality.

    The problem is, that kind of crap works. The media gobble it up. We should be using similar tactics when dealing with them. Refer to them as the Brady Bullies. Talk about how they are a bigoted organization that wants to take away civil rights.


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    AdnanShahab wrote:
    http://www.ktvu.com/news/22489381/detail.html

    “It may be legal for me to strap a machete around my waste and go down to the local playground but, reasonable people would find that intimidating and this is an act of intimidation,” said Arntzen.
    Ms. Arntzen cannot seperate the object from the action. In order for me to intimidate someone with a firearm would mean to me, that it would be drawn and ready for use. For Ms. Arntzen, the mere fact that I have a firearm is intimidating, even though I have done nothing with it. (Heck, it could be concealed or locked up in a safe and she would still be intimidated by it.)

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplophobia

    Hoplophobia (pronounced /ˌhɒplɵˈfoʊbiə/), from the Greek hoplon, or weapon, is defined as the "fear of firearms"[1] [2] or alternatively, an irrational fear of weapons in general, and describes a specific phobia.

    Firearms instructor and writer Colonel Jeff Cooper coined the word in 1962[3] to describe a "mental disturbance characterized by irrational aversion to weapons".[4] [5] Although not a mental health professional, Cooper employed the term as an alternative to slang terms, stating: "We read of 'gun grabbers' and 'anti-gun nuts' but these slang terms do not (explain this behavior)." Cooper attributed this behavior to an irrational fear of firearms and other forms of weaponry. He stated that "the most common manifestation of hoplophobia is the idea that instruments possess a will of their own, apart from that of their user."


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    We don't need to worry about the Brady Campaign; there are plenty of our own who are against us. Just take a look at the Calguns forum to see what I mean. They don't want anyone open carrying because they are afraid that it will scare all of the sheeple and cause more bad laws to be passed. I think that is quite possible in the short term, but it's a part of the battle that needs to be fought.

    I advocate for open carry because I think it is the best way to normalize guns in our society again. The sight of normal, law abiding citizens carrying holstered sidearms in a safe and responsible manner is exactly what we need more of in our society. At first it may frighten or intimidate some people, but they will get used to it. This is not a belief that is based on faith, but on fact. Just look at the dozens of other states where open carry is common and accepted. Nobody in Arizona freaks out when they see a holstered sidearm. There's no reason why we can't have that in California as well.

    In some ways I think the worst thing that can happen to the open carry movement in this state would be shall-issue CCW. Not that I don't want it, but as soon as it happens, the guns will all be hidden again (on your person, just not in the gunsafe). This would do nothing to advance the cause of gun normalization. The reason the sheeple fear guns is because they only see them in the hands of cops and criminals, and they fear them both for different reasons. They fear the criminals for obvious reasons, but they fear the cops because they represent force under color of authority. I think if you dug deep enough most people would admit that the police make them feel intimidated and nervous for reasons they themselves may not understand. They need to know that they don't have to fear guns anymore because the good guys (you, me, and every other regular bloke) have them too. That is what I believe can be achieved with the open carry movement.
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    I have always wanted toUOC in public inCA, knew/know it is legal, but choose not to do so because people are naive of the law andfromreading about apparent illegal arrests,so are some law enforcement officers. I am a gun owner, hunter, gun owner advocate andNRA member. Though as CA gun owners we need to question the messages that actively participating inUOC in allpublic situations which are legal to UOC are actuallysending to the majority of veryliberal people. Criminals are a minority, just as we gun owners are also. Would I walk around Target wearing a speedo and holding a baseball bat or a bow and arrows on my shoulder. No.It would call attention to myself. Though I dohave the right to do so.Would I personally feel safer participating inUOC, and or knowinghonest law abiding citizens are also participating inUOCin public. Yes, but then again, I am the minority. Yet, giving it some thought. If I weren'tparticipating in UOC. I would also question the intent ofpersons participating in UOC and how do I know that these individuals participating in UOC are not criminals or futurecriminals participating in UOC planninga crime. Then I would surelyparticipate in UOC to level the playing fields odds, as if others are packing firearms then so will I, but then again, I am the gun owning minority and unfortunately they (liberal minority) do not think the same way as we do.

    Sometimes we need tostep back and view it fromanothers perspective.Particularly a non gun owning liberals perspective. I would guess that my wife wouldfreak outif she sawsomeoneparticipating inUOC at a local store. She is not a gun hating liberal, she is indeed the opposite, and shehas been around guns her entire life since her father and I are avid hunters. I know I would get an immediatecall from her saying you won't believe what I just saw and Iwould have to explain to her that it is our right to participate inUOC.

    I am as fed up with the State of California's screwed up gun/ammunition legislation and policies as anyone. Possibly more than most people because more anti gun laws affect my choice to hunt, which is my passion. Rest assured that the messed up anti-gunners (IE: Brady Bunch) may most likely usesome rare publicized UOC occurancesthat may be also beportrayed as a blatantUOC'spublic action to make more messed up gun laws even sooner. Rest assured that the liberal majority of CALawmakers can and will make more restrictive firearm/ammunition laws whether it applies to UOC or not, as they have and will continue to do...IE: Carrying a handgun in a locked case/separate compartment... was not a CA law, before they made it a law...does that law infringe on our 2nd Amendment rights...No, not really. We can still legally own agun, but now we have to also purchase a locking case to legally transporta handgun and also jump through the hoops on where to put it in the vehicle, etc....I do hope this grassroots gun movement will indeed bring about positive change for the betterment of CA gun ownership. All in all,"Carry On", butfor the sake of us all, please Carry Wisely....

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    This question rests on one of three fundamental assumptions.

    1. Anti-UOC groups have malevolent intentions towards gun owners for extremely maligned and disturbing purposes.

    2. They are uninformed and simply do not know why we open carry, and truly cannot conceptialize how a world with arms could be better than one without.

    3. They are scared, and disturbed. They have no experience with firearms, now clue on the laws, no interaction with criminals and no desire or interest or knowledge of firearms. That they are truly scared when they see a gun because they are convinced it can only do wrong.

    I pray for two and three to be the case.

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    dukbukhunt wrote:
    IE: Carrying a handgun in a locked case/separate compartment... was not a CA law, before they made it a law...does that law infringe on our 2nd Amendment rights...No, not really. We can still legally own agun, but now we have to also purchase a locking case to legally transporta handgun and also jump through the hoops on where to put it in the vehicle, etc....
    Really thats a Law? Please Cite your source.
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    Ignore this as it posted twice....See below....

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    Chewy 352, you're scaring me. Though from what I read on the 2007 CA State Penal Code and frommy other CA gun law knowledge. There are few exceptions to transporting a concealed weapon (handgun)except in a locked container/car trunk. Here's a link to the 2007 laws. As a CA gun owner, particularly if you areplanning or participating in UOC (I presume that you are a gun owner) you really need to readand have a good understandingof all of the Penal Codes.

    http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

    The 2007 CA State Penal Code states. I've highlighted in red below what I was referring to. Also, since I am a licensed hunter. In order to cover my tail, I do always transport my handgun(s) unloaded and in locked containers (I do not have a trunk since I drive a pickup truck) and separate from ammunition to and from my hunting expeditions.

    California Firearms Laws 2007

    4. POSSESSION AND TRANSPORTATION OF CONCEALED WEAPONS


    Carrying a Concealed Handgun Without a License on One's Person or Concealed in a Vehicle


    Pursuant to Penal Code section 12025, a person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he


    or she does any of the following:


    • Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control, any pistol,


    revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.


    • Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm


    capable of being concealed upon the person.


    • Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant


    any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.


    NOTE:
    A firearm carried openly in a belt holster is not considered "concealed" as it


    applies to the above prohibition. (Penal Code § 12025(f).)


    Section 12025 does not apply to or affect any of the following:


    • Any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is


    temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited from owning or possessing firearms


    pursuant to Penal Code sections 12021 or 12021.1 or section 8100 or 8101 of the Welfare and


    Institutions Code, may carry, either openly or concealed, anywhere within his or her place of


    business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by him or her any pistol, revolver,


    or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person. A permit or license to purchase,


    own, possess, keep, or carry is not required under these circumstances. (Penal Code § 12026.)


    The transportation or carrying of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being


    concealed upon the person by any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years


    who resides or is temporarily within this state, and is not within the excepted classes


    prescribed by Penal Code Sections 12021 or 12021.1 or Welfare and Institutions Code sections


    8100 or 8103, provided that the following applies:


    - the firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container


    in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment, and;


    - when the firearm is carried by the person to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose, the


    firearm must be contained in a locked container while being physically carried. (Penal Code §


    12026.1.)


    Penal Code Section 12025 does not apply to or affect the lawful transportation or possession of a


    firearm under specific circumstances, including, but not limited to, the following:


    • The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the firearm in order to comply


    with Article 1 (commencing with section 2080) of Chapter 4 of Division 3 of the


    Civil Code as it pertains to that firearm and if that firearm is being transported to a law


    enforcement agency, the person gives prior notice to the law enforcement agency that he or


    she is transporting the firearm to the law enforcement agency. (Penal Code § 12026.2(a)(17).)


    • The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the firearm, and is transporting it to a law


    enforcement agency for disposition according to law, if he or she gives prior notice to the law


    enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to the law enforcement agency for


    disposition according to law. Firearms must be transported unloaded and in a locked container


    and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations, as


    necessary. (Penal Code §§ 12026.2(a)(17), (18) and (b).)


    • The carrying of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the


    person by a person who is authorized to carry that weapon in a concealed


    manner pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with section 12050) of the Penal Code.


    • Members of any club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing


    shooting at targets upon established target ranges, whether public or private, while


    the members are using concealable firearms upon the target ranges.


    • Authorized peace officers, retired peace officers, and retired federal officers or agents,


    as defined in Penal Code sections 830.1, 830.2, 830.5, 12027(a) and 12031(b).


    • Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing, or while going


    to or returning from such hunting or fishing expeditions.


    • The possession or transportation of unloaded pistols, revolvers, or other firearms


    capable of being concealed upon the person as merchandise by a person who is


    licensed in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms.


    • The carrying of unloaded pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed


    upon the person by duly authorized military or civil organizations while parading, or the


    members thereof when going to and from the places of meeting of their respective


    organizations.


    • Guards or messengers of common carriers, banks, and other financial institutions


    while actually employed in and about the shipment, transportation, or delivery of


    any money, treasure, bullion, bonds, or other thing of value within this state.


    • Transportation of unloaded firearms by a person operating a licensed common carrier


    or an authorized agent or employee thereof when transported in conformance with applicable


    federal law.


    Notwithstanding the exceptions cited in
    Section 5. Loaded Firearms, individuals may not carry or


    transport a loaded firearm. The firearm should be unloaded and placed in the trunk of the vehicle,


    or if the vehicle has no trunk, placed in a fully enclosed secure locked container other than the utility

    or glove compartment of a motor vehicle (Penal Code §§ 12026.1, 12027.)

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    I was picking apart your post but I than realized that you had cut and past several PCs in order to try and make your argument effective. To make this short and sweet 12025 clearly states that, "a firearm carried openly in a belt holster is not concealed." Now some say that it has to be in a "belt holster" but that is not the case. This was simply an example of open carry therefore a firearm on my dash or on my seat beside me that is not covered by anything is not concealed.

    Second you never showed where it said the firearm and ammunition have to be in separate compartments. All your citation said was that the firearm had to be unloaded which we already knew due to PC 12031. If you want a further definition of unloaded see People V. Clark.

    Third use a better source. Laws are changed all the time so find a site that keeps them updated. ie. http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

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    Chewy 352, You have stated "Now some say that it has to be in a "belt holster" but that is not the case."

    Please Cite and post the verbiage of the specific CA law that describeshow one can legally transport a handgunto a vehiclefor transport that isnotin a locked container. I would really like to see that lawin writing, as I would like to have the option ofnot transporting my hangun(s) in locked containers in my vehicle. From what I read below in Penal Code 12026I do not interpret it as stating that I can legallytransport a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person open in ones vehicle that is notin a locked container or the vehicles trunk. Also from what I read per Penal Code 12026.1. In order to transport a handgun, then someonehas totransport the handgun to theirvehicle in alocked container (it states states thatthe firearm must be contained in a locked container while being physically carried).

    Chewy 352,You have also stated "To make this short and sweet 12025 clearly states that, "a firearm carried openly in a belt holster is not concealed." and you also say I cut past several PC's to make my point... Read below....

    Section 12025 does not apply to or affect any of the following:

    • Any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited from owning or possessing firearms pursuant to Penal Code sections 12021 or 12021.1 or section 8100 or 8101 of the Welfare andInstitutions Code, may carry, either openly or concealed, anywhere within his or her place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by him or her any pistol, revolver,or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person. A permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry is not required under these circumstances. (Penal Code § 12026.)

    The transportation or carrying of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person by any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Penal Code Sections 12021 or 12021.1 or Welfare and Institutions Code sections

    8100 or 8103, provided that the following applies:

    - the firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment, and; - when the firearm is carried by the person to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose, the firearm must be contained in a locked container while being physically carried. (Penal Code §12026.1.)

    Penal Code Section 12025 does not apply to or affect the lawful transportation or possession of a firearm under specific circumstances, including, but not limited to, the following:

    • The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the firearm in order to comply with Article 1 (commencing with section 2080) of Chapter 4 of Division 3 of the Civil Code as it pertains to that firearm and if that firearm is being transported to a law enforcement agency, the person gives prior notice to the law enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to the law enforcement agency. (Penal Code § 12026.2(a)(17).)

    • The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the firearm, and is transporting it to a law enforcement agency for disposition according to law, if he or she gives prior notice to the law enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to the law enforcement agency for disposition according to law. Firearms must be transported unloaded and in a locked container and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations, as necessary. (Penal Code §§ 12026.2(a)(17), (18) and (b).)

    • The carrying of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person by a person who is authorized to carry that weapon in a concealed manner pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with section 12050) of the Penal Code.

    • Members of any club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets upon established target ranges, whether public or private, while the members are using concealable firearms upon the target ranges.

    • Authorized peace officers, retired peace officers, and retired federal officers or agents, as defined in Penal Code sections 830.1, 830.2, 830.5, 12027(a) and 12031(b).

    • Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing, or while going to or returning from such hunting or fishing expeditions.

    • The possession or transportation of unloaded pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person as merchandise by a person who is licensed in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms.

    • The carrying of unloaded pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person by duly authorized military or civil organizations while parading, or the members thereof when going to and from the places of meeting of their respective organizations.

    • Guards or messengers of common carriers, banks, and other financial institutions while actually employed in and about the shipment, transportation, or delivery of any money, treasure, bullion, bonds, or other thing of value within this state.

    • Transportation of unloaded firearms by a person operating a licensed common carrier or an authorized agent or employee thereof when transported in conformance with applicable federal law.

    Also be aware:

    Forfeiture for Violation of the Penal Code

    Penal Code section 12028 requires forfeiture of (a) any weapon illegally carried upon the person or within any vehicle and (b) any firearm illegally owned, possessed, or used in the commission orattempted commission of any felony or specified misdemeanor. Penal Code section 12029 requiresforfeiture of any short-barreled shotgun, short-barreled rifle, cane gun, wallet gun, plastic firearm, firearm not immediately recognizable as a firearm, zip gun or unconventional pistol as specified inPenal Code section 12020. Penal Code section 12251 requires forfeiture of any machinegun possessed in violation of the permit and/or license provisions of Penal Code sections 12230 through 12250.

    Possible forfeiture isalso myreasoning whyI cover my tail and travel with handgunsin locked containers, so as not to leave it up the the discretion of any LEO to confiscate my gun(s)..possible court appearances, trials, etc. Also, I never said it was the law to transport ammo separate from unloaded firearms in my vehicle. That is my personal choice oftransport.





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    dukbukhunt stop trolling. You registered here 2 days ago and you are doing nothing but posting disinformation and FUD. Why don't you chill out and learn a little before you attempt to do some teaching? The law has already been researched extensively on this forum and others. Do not come here and tell us you know the law when you obviously do not. We did not just fall off the turnip truck unlike yourself.
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    Turnip truck,eh! FYI: Check out theFirst Amendment. So teach me ohWewd.If the law has beenextensivelyresearched then you shouldn't have any problem citing and posting the exact verbiage and reference of the specific CA lawthat clearly defines anddescribeshow one can legally transport a handgunto and froma vehicleand then within said vehicle for transport that isnotwithina locked container or trunk. A LEO or eventually a judge may like to review that documentation in your near future. So you may as well prepare it in advance just in case a LEO arrests you and confiscates your firearm. Then if and when you do get acourt date. You can smart off toa judge by carrying ina laptop with you and refer the judgeto this website and the many other websites that you have referred to. Good luck with that dude.

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    Must be a friend of HankT. Or a Brady spy.

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    dukbukhunt wrote:
    If the law has beenextensivelyresearched then you shouldn't have any problem citing and posting the exact verbiage and reference of the specific CA lawthat clearly defines anddescribeshow one can legally transport a handgunto and froma vehicleand then within said vehicle for transport that isnotwithina locked container or trunk.

    Dude, take a pill. I would highly suggest that you look for the answers to your questions, then ask questions or for clarifications.

    12025(f) Tells you EXACTLY how it is possible for you to carry an unloaded firearm in the manner you specify.

    That is not the only way, but it is one way.

    p.s. beware of PC 626.9 if that is the method you choose.

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    dukbukhunt: CA PC 12025(f) has a specific exception that says carrying a concealable firearm in a belt holster explicitly makes it not concealed. Nowhere in the penal code does it say that while carrying a concealable firearm in a holster that you cannot operate a motor vehicle. There isn't a place in the penal code that says you can't put your concealable firearm on the dashboard of the car for all to see.

    Personally I find posts that just copy and paste penal code text to be less than useful. Many of us have read and re-read the sections that you are copying and pasting. When we see stuff that we've read before, we'll most likely just skip over it. If you have a specific section you want to talk about, quote the smallest part necessary and state your argument.

    -----

    AdnanShahab: My feeling here is that the Brady Bunch view us as specifically carrying our guns out in the open as something that we choose to do (as opposed to carrying concealed). I'm sure they know that most of us can't get concealed weapons permits, but most people don't know this.

    A lot of people probably think we can get CCWs but are choosing to display our firearms openly for some other reason. A lot of people probably haven't even given any thought as to why the firearms are displayed openly, but instead have given knee-jerk reactions which are focused entirely on how our actions affect them. They don't sit there and think, "Gee, I wonder why those people would want to carry a firearm around" much like the majority of Americans don't think, "Gee, I wonder why Osama Bin Laden wants to attack us?" Instead we just point at the people that make us feel uncomfortable, declare them the enemy, and tear into them.

    Look at how Ron Paul has been marginalized by the left and the right over his foreign policy. He has looked at why 9/11 happened and has determined that our horrible foreign policy record is the culprit. The rest of the country has determined that "terrorists" "hate our freedom" and other such nonsense.

    I really don't think their reactions should be unexpected or are limited to just ultra-liberals. I'm sure I'm just as guilty of this behavior when it comes to some other issue. The strategy we should be pursuing is how to convince the masses that what we're doing is fighting for our freedoms and attempting to reduce crime overall. I strongly believe that the people that can figure out how to do this will win the battle of the hearts and minds of the public.

  25. #25
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    There are few exceptions to transporting a concealed weapon (handgun) except in a locked container/car trunk.
    A concealed firearm has to be hidden. So you are right, there are few exceptions to carrying a concealed firearm in a vehicle.

    A concealable firearm is not the same thing as a concealed firearm. A concealable firearm is capable of being concealed, such as a handgun, but not a hunting rifle.

    You cannot be convicted of carrying a concealed firearm if you are wearing a trench coat over a full length shotgun, because a shotgun is not a concealable weapon.

    Just because a firearm is concealable does not make it concealed. The laws that you are quoting apply to concealed firearms (as in firearms that are hidden). When you open carry, although the firearm is concealable, it is not concealed.

    Does that clear it up.

    I don't think you are trying to troll here, but there are good resources for you to read on this subject, and a lot of discussion on the topic. I think some people are getting a little annoyed at you because you are questioning some pretty basic premises here.

    It is not illegal (in the general case) to carry an unloaded handgun openly in California. There are, of course, several exceptions mostly having to do with where you are at, and who you are (ie school zone, court house, felon, gang member).

    You can watch any number of you tube videos of actual California open carriers encounters with law enforcement to see this. Do you see them getting arrested? They get detained often, and harassed a bit at times. There is no law that you can be charged with breaking because it does not exist.

    It is illegal to carry a loaded weapon. (there are exceptions)

    It is illegal to carry a concealed weapon. (there are exceptions ... CCW comes to mind)

    California laws in general, and specifically firearms laws are quite confusing, but you really need to understand that a law does not make something legal. Laws make things illegal.

    I guess your question is like me asking you to cite me the penal code that states it is legal for me to walk to the liquor store at 2am to buy a candy bar.

    There is no law against it, so it is legal.

    There is no law against carrying openly an unloaded firearm in California. Again, there are exceptions to this and you should understand them (school zones, public buildings, airports, etc...)

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