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Thread: Will the name of this website be changed to "Open carry of Handguns.Org?"

  1. #1
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Open Carry is defined in wikipedia this way:

    Open carry is shorthand terminology for "openly carrying a firearm in public", as distinguished from concealed carry, where firearms cannot be seen by the casual observer. It is also called "open display".

    Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry

    Yet we now have rule #11 on the forum:

    11) This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. Do not start OFF TOPIC threads or discussions such aspromoting the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the folks on this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry.

    Link: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html

    It is a shame that we havethis reaction to lawful RKBA. I do understand the owners position thatLong Gun Open Carry (LGOC) harms what they see as the core purpose of their website.

    This does postulate some interesting discussion topics, though...

    A) Does this mean this is a limited (or reasonable) RKBA website? :shock:

    B) Does this mean that this is an urban firearms issues website because the justification in rule #11 for banning thepromotion of LGOC is related to urban problems?

    C) Since the owners of this website have decided to make a rule that Open Carry of anything but handguns is verboten, will the name of the group change to "Open Carry of Handguns dot org?

    D) What would Ron Paul do?

    This is not meant as any sort of "calling out". This thread is meant to introduce a civil discussionabout the purpose of people's participation in this forum.

    Please Note:

    1) This was placed in the News and Political Alert section of the forum because the banning of Long Gun Open Carry advocacy on the premiere Open Carry Website is certainly News.

    2) This thread complies with rule 11 because it does notpromote LGOC, only the implications of rule #11.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Seems like John, Mike and company just have a specific issue they want to focus on. They obviously support the 2A, they just want to concentrate their efforts on the normalization of handgun carry. Rule 11 even states that they would like to leave the long gun issues for others to work on. Not sure why it is such a big deal.

    Edited for spelling errors by Scrub.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Like it or not, and I wish it were different but open carry of longarms isn't really doing much good publicity wise. At this time the stories are having a negative effect. While in principle handgun and longgun OC are the same act, the amount of handling a longarm requires changes things like peoples perception of danger. I would like LAOC (Long Arm Open Carry) to someday be as acceptable as wearing a blue shirt, but to get there is going to be a long process. In the meantime it is more useful to work on getting handgun OC accepted and that is still a work in progress in many places. It is crawl, walk, run analogy.

    There is nothing stopping anyone from founding a LAOC movement and a website is a good place to start, I would suggest someone as pasionate as you or some others here to go ahead and work on legitimizing it. I do foresee a problem in that most gun owners only want to carry handguns outside of hunting. While there is nothing like a semiautomatic carbine for the preservation of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, they aren't easy to keep handy and in most gun carriers minds their handgun is adequate for that task (I believe like Clint Smith, that handguns are wimpy).

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    I know what you are saying Longwatch, but the nature of the forum is significantly changing. THis used to be a no compromise RKBA forum. Think I am wrong? Look at the maps page. There is still a machine gun map!!!


    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Things have changed that is for certain and the forum has evolved, but I don't think the views of Mike and John have changed much. I had conversations with Mike years ago about LAOC and his views are still the same. He was pretty convincing that it was counterproductive at the time, but this is my view we will get there over time.



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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    nevermind

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    I'm one of the ones that took issue with Mike's recent responses to long arm open carry, for two main reasons:

    • He stated OCDO is about normalizing handgun open carry, yet at the time he made the statement nothing on OCDO indicated that official position.
    • His position on the Michigan Ponderosa incident was that it was the fault of the guy who was engaged in lawful conduct (OC'ing the AR) rather than the police engaged in intimidating and unlawful conduct under color of authority(*numerous* officers flooded the Ponderosa and *illegally*detained people). This position was indicated by Mike naming athread "Man ruins OC dinner meeting . . ." rather than "Police heavy handedness and illegal detention ruins OC dinner meeting".

    Subsequently, Mike has had the OCDO web page altered to clarify specifically it is focused on OC of handguns. Also, I am optimistic that Mike is the type of guy to reflect on how he states incidents and takes a position where, if someone is conducting themselves lawfully and peaceably but a police response is heavy handed and involves illegal conduct by the police, his responses in the future are better balanced to assign accountability where it properly needs to be.

    I'm happy to see much better claritywith OCDO. I happen to personally support Mike's view that normalization of handgun open carry is the practical best path at the current time for general normalization of open carry of firearms. Mike and John have my full support and admiration, and hiccups along the way don't diminish that.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Just my 2C, but carrying a rifle or a shotgun never will draw the rage of the anti-gun nuts like a handgun. The laws for OC of a long arm are much less restrictive than a pistol on your belt in most states. If it's cased, I doubt you would even get a second look. To center this forum on OC of handguns makes sense to me, although I would certainly entertain the long gun story--if on point, from time to time.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member Prophet's Avatar
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    Although, if you think about it, OC'ing a long gun can answer that long posed question of how you OC during the wintertime. OCing a long gun over a coat is much more practical than trying to jerry rig your coat around your belt holstered handgun...just sayin.

    On a side note, the things that some here are saying about OC'ing about long guns are the same things that people said when we first starting to OC handguns. Hell, its what those people in Texas campus carry were saying when we tried to get OC in texas at the same time as there bill. Food for thought.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Prophet wrote:
    On a side note, the things that some here are saying about OC'ing about long guns are the same things that people said when we first starting to OC handguns. Hell, its what those people in Texas campus carry were saying when we tried to get OC in texas at the same time as there bill. Food for thought.

    +1 Prophet

    The motto is a right unexercized is a right lost, not a handgun right unexercized is a right lost.

    Hand guns and long guns are both tools.

    While most here are very pro 2A (even HankT) the logic, and occasionally the hostile attitude are reminiscent of the antis.

    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  11. #11
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    To illustrate whatOCDO hascome to, from the penny auction s of auction arms.

    This is O.K. to promote:

    Seller's Description:
    This auction is for a Romanian Draco semi-automatic pistol in 7.62 X 39 caliber. It looks like and functions like an AK-47 Rifle. Manufactured by Romanian Cugir. Comes with 2 30 rd magazines , cleaning kit and instruction booklet. FFL required. Add $30 shipping and ins. to lower 48. I take checks and credit cards. . Thanks, and have a great day.







    But this is not:

    Seller's Description:
    This auction is for 1 Used Mossberg Model 185K Bolt action 20ga Shotgun.26 Inch Barrel (Length includes the Poly choke) Chambered for 2 3/4 inch shells Only.Wood Stock with a Detatchable Box Magazine.This Gun is a recent Trade in and is in Very Good condition.The Blueing shows several scuffs and scratches Throuhgout.The Blueing also shows quite a bit of Rust Spotting/Freckling Throughout.The wood stock and forend shows many Dings,Dents,Scuffs and Scratches Throughout.Bore is Excellent.

    Payment and Shipping Instructions:
    WE MUST SHIP TO A VALID FFL HOLDER BUYER TO PAY $20.00 SHIPPING AND HANDLING.WE SHIP ONLY IN THE U.S. SHIPPING TO AK OR HI IS HIGHER.ALL LONG GUNS SHIPPED VIA UPS.PAYMENT MUST BE RECEIVED WITHIN 10 DAYS OF THE CLOSE OF THE AUCTION OR GUN GOES BACK TO AUCTION. MONEY ORDERS,CASHIERS CHECKS OR CREDIT CARDS ARE THE ONLY FORM OF PAYMENT WE CAN ACCEPT(NO SURCHARGE ON THE CARDS).PA RESIDENTS MUST ADD 6% SALES TAX. PLEASE CHECK YOUR STATE AND LOCAL LAWS BEFORE BIDDING ON THIS ITEM.







    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    Open Carry is defined in wikipedia this way:

    Open carry is shorthand terminology for "openly carrying a firearm in public", as distinguished from concealed carry, where firearms cannot be seen by the casual observer. It is also called "open display".

    Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry
    Wikepedia is a nice non-scholarly source - but in reality the open carry v. conceal carry distinction is about how concealable firearms, i.e., handguns, are carried - that's what we do here.

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