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E-checked

oc3068

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
16
Location
Los Angeles, California, USA
imported post

I was headed to a firearms training today, and on my way there I stopped at Starbucks to grab a cup of Joe in Azusa. Walked in with a lieutenant from Azusa police department, and he immeidately asked me to step out.

I was instructed to interlace my fingers over my head and drop on my knees. He patted me down and found my voice recorder, and conveniently turned it off.. :?

Backup arrived, and I was handcuffed, wallet taken away. Another officer drew his pistol, while the lieutenant struggled to get my Sig out of my serpa holster. Lieutenant also ran my drivers license although I informed that they do not have the right to do that. He said "Of course I have, what law school did you go to". I asked one of the female officer there if they have got these calls before, and she just turned away. Another officer asked why do I do this, what if some bad guy tries to grab my pistol. I laughed and said, "well you lieutenant took a good 20 seconds to get my gun when I'm not resisting. Now what do you think".

After a minute or so lieutenant came back and said I'm all clear, uncuffed me, and gave me the whole lecture of how I should apply common sense and not do this. I didn't respond, and they instructed me not to touch my gun (which was on the ground) until they all left the parking lot.

I did so, carried on and went to get my coffee. Funny thing came in. The cashier took my order and said "e check eh??" Good conversation with him for a bit afterward.

So there it goes, my e-check cherry popped. I just wish he didn't find my voice recorder and I actually have proof of what he did wrong. Not too bad an experience, took about 10 minutes.
 

ConditionThree

State Pioneer
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,231
Location
Shasta County, California, USA
imported post

Its pretty galling that the LT turned off your voice recorder- this would have been somewhat mitigated by the presence of a friendly witness- or perhaps hiding the voice recorder with your 'frank and beans' with a mic pinned to your collar. They would certainly have more difficulty with the justification of such an intrusive search.

The fact that they rifled through your wallet, certainly goes beyond a simple (e) check, and surely they ran your CDL as well as your firearm. While sterile carry isnt for everyone, the absence of state issued ID to positively identify you could keep you from being targeted by a dirty DA or city attorney for later retribution foryour assertion of your right to be armed.

Personally, I dont need a lecture from anyone about why I shouldnt be armed, particularly from a P.O. Under the same circumstances, I would have asked if I were free to go and departed upon recieving leave.If they seemed open to a discussion about carry, I might stay and lay some ground work for future carriers- but it seems that they were more interested in detering lawful activity.

I find it pretty funny that he would trot out the "Shouldnt do this or someone will snatch your gun," after strugging with removing it from a compliant detainee. Having had a similar experiece, I have vowed not to assist police in decribing how to disarm and search me if the opportunity ever arrises again.

Be sure to PRA the incident- Its always interesting to see the details behind the stop, even if youre not pursuing litigation.
 

bigtoe416

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
1,747
Location
Oregon
imported post

Yuck.

I was headed to a firearms training today, and on my way there I stopped at Starbucks to grab a cup of Joe in Azusa. Walked in with a lieutenant from Azusa police department, and he immeidately asked me to step out.
Did he ask you or order you? Should have made him demand it. A simple, "Oh, no thank you" would have made him clarify.

I was instructed to interlace my fingers over my head and drop on my knees. He patted me down and found my voice recorder, and conveniently turned it off..
Violating Terry since you weren't dangerous and a frisk can only remove weapons.

Backup arrived, and I was handcuffed, wallet taken away.
So you're absolutely detained by now, but illegally since undoubtedly the officer isn't suspecting you of having committed or about to commit a crime. Wallet confiscation is also violating Terry.

Another officer drew his pistol, while the lieutenant struggled to get my Sig out of my serpa holster. Lieutenant also ran my drivers license although I informed that they do not have the right to do that. He said "Of course I have, what law school did you go to".
"Actually sir, only basic reading comprehension is required to understand Terry v. Ohio."

I asked one of the female officer there if they have got these calls before, and she just turned away. Another officer asked why do I do this, what if some bad guy tries to grab my pistol. I laughed and said, "well you lieutenant took a good 20 seconds to get my gun when I'm not resisting. Now what do you think".
Spot on there.

I didn't respond, and they instructed me not to touch my gun (which was on the ground) until they all left the parking lot.
I despise this crap. They're all up in arms over you having a gun, and then they give you grief about a criminal taking it away, but then they leave it on the ground and they tell you to leave it there until they leave the parking lot. So which is it? Are they really concerned or do they not care?

I hope one day somebody picks up their gun and gets arrested so we can challenge this kind of nonsense.

oc3068 wrote:
I did so, carried on and went to get my coffee. Funny thing came in. The cashier took my order and said "e check eh??" Good conversation with him for a bit afterward.
Whaaaaa? How'd he know?
 

wewd

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
664
Location
Oregon
imported post

We seriously need to start pooling funds together to initiate some 42 USC 1983 lawsuits against these cops who go far beyond a simple e-check. They all know the proper procedures by now. They have all read the interdepartmental memos. They all know Terry front to back, and they don't care if they violate those standards. The Fourth Amendment means nothing to them. They are acting with impunity against Californians, who have thus far not made any legal actions beyond departmental complaints. Read the New Mexico case, St. John v. McColley, if you need some inspiration.
 

Sons of Liberty

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
638
Location
Riverside, California, USA
imported post

Did you get the lieutenant's name? Did you get the name of the Starbuck's employee who witnessed the incident and any others who may have witnessed the incident?

At the very least, file a compliant with the department since this detainment is without probable cause, goes beyond a simple e-check, and is a violation of your 4th amendment rights.
 

oc3068

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
16
Location
Los Angeles, California, USA
imported post

Don't worry, Igot all the names. A penis your friend in these situations. Currently I'm drafting my letterof complain. LEOs need to know that thelaw not only applies to free citizens, but also governs what they can or cannot do, and they cannot just do whatever they want and expect the citizens to just suck up to that.
 

N6ATF

Banned
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
1,401
Location
San Diego County, CA, California, USA
imported post

Criminals hiding behind badges!

We need an initiative campaign to add to the penal code a non-wobbling felony (cannot be converted to a misdemeanor) for anyone but the owner of the recording device to turn it off or remove it from the person of the owner when law enforcement officers are present. They need to lose their jobs for destroying evidence. Being felons should cause them to lose their POST certifications.
 

dirtykoala

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
644
imported post

wewd wrote:
oc3068 wrote:
A penis your friend in these situations.

That's what she said.

:what::what::what::what: :what:



this e check story made me pretty upset. wewd is right about trying to get some suits going, i dont want to be that group, but it seems like it is neccisary.

wewd is also right about thats what she said.
 

wildhawker

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
113
Location
California, USA
imported post

This is another egregious example of rights violations against peaceful gun owners. I look forward to reading updates; please let me know if I can assist with the letter of complaint.
 

pullnshoot25

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
1,139
Location
Escondido, California, USA
imported post

oc3068 wrote:
I was headed to a firearms training today, and on my way there I stopped at Starbucks to grab a cup of Joe in Azusa.  Walked in with a lieutenant from Azusa police department, and he immeidately asked me to step out.

I was instructed to interlace my fingers over my head and drop on my knees.  He patted me down and found my voice recorder, and conveniently turned it off.. :?

Backup arrived, and I was handcuffed, wallet taken away.  Another officer drew his pistol, while the lieutenant struggled to get my Sig out of my serpa holster.  Lieutenant also ran my drivers license although I informed that they do not have the right to do that.  He said "Of course I have, what law school did you go to".  I asked one of the female officer there if they have got these calls before, and she just turned away.  Another officer asked why do I do this, what if some bad guy tries to grab my pistol.  I laughed and said, "well you lieutenant took a good 20 seconds to get my gun when I'm not resisting.  Now what do you think".

After a minute or so lieutenant came back and said I'm all clear, uncuffed me, and gave me the whole lecture of how I should apply common sense and not do this.  I didn't respond, and they instructed me not to touch my gun (which was on the ground)  until they all left the parking lot.

I did so, carried on and went to get my coffee.  Funny thing came in.  The cashier took my order and said "e check eh??"  Good conversation with him for a bit afterward.

So there it goes, my e-check cherry popped.  I just wish he didn't find my voice recorder and I actually have proof of what he did wrong.  Not too bad an experience, took about 10 minutes.

FARKING ASSHOLES.
 

wildhawker

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
113
Location
California, USA
imported post

I'll agree and, not to be contradictory, add that it sounds about 10 minutes too long.

JJ wrote:
oc3068 wrote: 
  Not too bad an experience, took about 10 minutes.

How can this be anything but a bad experience.

Sounds like it was about 9 minutes and 30 seconds too long.
 

pullnshoot25

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
1,139
Location
Escondido, California, USA
imported post

wildhawker wrote:
I'll agree and, not to be contradictory, add that it sounds about 10 minutes too long.

JJ wrote:
oc3068 wrote: 
  Not too bad an experience, took about 10 minutes.

How can this be anything but a bad experience.

Sounds like it was about 9 minutes and 30 seconds too long.

Great minds think alike. *Not plugging about my mind but come on now* :)
 

chewy352

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
769
Location
Harrah, Oklahoma
imported post

File a PRAR before you file your complaint. If you need help with the process just ask. Filing a PRAR might possibly give you evidence that would get "lost" if you filed a complaint first and wouldn't be available to you once you filed.
 

dirtykoala

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
644
imported post

chewy352 wrote:
File a PRAR before you file your complaint. If you need help with the process just ask. Filing a PRAR might possibly give you evidence that would get "lost" if you filed a complaint first and wouldn't be available to you once you filed.

wewd is right again. File a prar first, this will tell you if the officer reasonably should have known how to apropriatly handle the situation, among other things. I filed a complaint before a prar, then they wouldn't release some prar stuff because it was under investigation. Much credit to bad_ace for the prar.
 

RaycerX96

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
42
Location
Hayward, Ca, ,
imported post

My echeck took about 10 minutes and I didnt get proned out or anything like what yours. I would seriously complain to the chief. You shold have some witnesses to the sto pat starbucks
 

MudCamper

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
709
Location
Sebastopol, California, USA
imported post

Perhaps it's time to start carrying 2 voice recorders. One obvious, and one hidden, or one of the various new DVR wrist watches.

Then ask them why they turn off the recorder. Ask them what they have to hide. Meanwhile record everything for later playback to their superiors in a complaint.
 

dirtykoala

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
644
imported post

using the iphone as a recorder is good because you can require a password to log in inorder to stop recording. i normally have my iphone audio recording, my ipod audio recording and to be used for video if i can get it out, and i a 3rd recorder hidden when cops would have to get pretty friendly to find.
 
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