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Thread: Non-resident Carry

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I remember a thread discussing all the rules for non-resident carry, but I cannot find it. Can someone help me here please?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    Seeing that you're from WI, you're out of luck. Non residents need a CPL/CHL/CCW/CFP (or whatever else there is out there) to carry in MI. The permit must be from your state of residence.

    Somewhere along the lines, the law was changed (and I don't remember when, or how it was changed), so that someone from IL (no CCW) can carry openly here because all the hassles they go through to possess a handgun qualify them to posses one here.
    Rand Paul 2016

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I know I'm out of luck. I want to read the thread again.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  4. #4
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    my bad. Miss out on a little (more like a lot) sleep, and I start reading things wrong....

    Is this the one you're looking for?

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...n+non+resident
    Rand Paul 2016

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    protias wrote:
    I know I'm out of luck. I want to read the thread again.
    Protias, do a search for: non-resident

    Make sure to check the box for: search in this forum only

    There are many pages of threads pertaining to non-resident carry.

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I wasn't thinking of that thread, but it looks like it has the same information (Venator posted).

    Found another one, but the thread I'm thinking of started out with the law. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=18901
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Unfortunately at this time anyone from a state that does not issue a CPL (or it's facsimile) and or does not have a handgun registration process cannot carry or posses a hand gun in MI.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  8. #8
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    This is a bit of a stretch but, could a non-resident obtain a Michigan permit to purchase and then register the pistol they wish to carry?

  9. #9
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    Yooper wrote:
    Seeing that you're from WI, you're out of luck. Non residents need a CPL/CHL/CCW/CFP (or whatever else there is out there) to carry in MI. The permit must be from your state of residence.

    Somewhere along the lines, the law was changed (and I don't remember when, or how it was changed), so that someone from IL (no CCW) can carry openly here because all the hassles they go through to possess a handgun qualify them to posses one here.
    Could you give a cite for research?

    I have some relatives coming from Vermont that would like to carry in Michigan too.

  10. #10
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    This is a bit of a stretch but, could a non-resident obtain a Michigan permit to purchase and then register the pistol they wish to carry?
    28.422 License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; nonresidents; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.Sec. 2.
    (1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person shall not purchase, carry, possess, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section.
    (2) A person who brings a pistol into this state who is on leave from active duty with the armed forces of the United States or who has been discharged from active duty with the armed forces of the United States shall obtain a license for the pistol within 30 days after his or her arrival in this state.
    (3) The commissioner or chief of police of a city, township, or village police department that issues licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols, or his or her duly authorized deputy, or the sheriff or his or her duly authorized deputy, in the parts of a county not included within a city, township, or village having an organized police department, in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols to qualified applicants residing within the city, village, township, or county, as applicable unless he or she has probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state or of the United States. An applicant is qualified if all of the following circumstances exist:
    (a) The person is not subject to an order or disposition for which he or she has received notice and an opportunity for a hearing, and which was entered into the law enforcement information network pursuant to any of the following:
    (i) Section 464a(1) of the mental health code, 1974 PA 258, MCL 330.1464a.
    (ii) Section 5107 of the estates and protected individuals code, 1998 PA 386, MCL 700.5107, or section 444a of former 1978 PA 642.
    (iii) Section 2950(10) of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950.
    (iv) Section 2950a(7) of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950a.
    (v) Section 14 of 1846 RS 84, MCL 552.14.
    (vi) Section 6b(5) of chapter V of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b, if the order has a condition imposed under section 6b(3) of chapter V of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b.
    (vii) Section 16b(1) of chapter IX of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 769.16b.
    (b) The person is 18 years of age or older or, if the seller is licensed under 18 USC 923, is 21 years of age or older.
    (c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state. For the purposes of this section, a person shall be considered a legal resident of this state if any of the following apply:
    (i) The person has a valid, lawfully obtained Michigan driver license issued under the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.1 to 257.923, or an official state personal identification card issued under 1972 PA 222, MCL 28.291 to 28.300.
    (ii) The person is lawfully registered to vote in this state.
    (iii) The person is on active duty status with the United States armed forces and is stationed outside of this state, but the person's home of record is in this state.
    (iv) The person is on active duty status with the United States armed forces and is permanently stationed in this state, but the person's home of record is in another state.
    (d) A felony charge or a criminal charge listed in section 5b against the person is not pending at the time of application.
    (e) The person is not prohibited from possessing, using, transporting, selling, purchasing, carrying, shipping, receiving, or distributing a firearm under section 224f of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.224f.
    (f) The person has not been adjudged insane in this state or elsewhere unless he or she has been adjudged restored to sanity by court order.
    (g) The person is not under an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to mental illness.
    (h) The person has not been adjudged legally incapacitated in this state or elsewhere. This subdivision does not apply to a person who has had his or her legal capacity restored by order of the court.
    (i) The person correctly answers 70% or more of the questions on a basic pistol safety review questionnaire approved by the department of state police and provided to the individual free of charge by the licensing authority. If the person fails to correctly answer 70% or more of the questions on the basic pistol safety review questionnaire, the licensing authority shall inform the person of the questions he or she answered incorrectly and allow the person to attempt to complete another basic pistol safety review questionnaire. The person shall not be allowed to attempt to complete more than 2 basic pistol safety review questionnaires on any single day. The licensing authority shall allow the person to attempt to complete the questionnaire during normal business hours on the day the person applies for his or her license.
    (4) Applications for licenses under this section shall be signed by the applicant under oath upon forms provided by the director of the department of state police. Licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols shall be executed in quadruplicate upon forms provided by the director of the department of state police and shall be signed by the licensing authority. Four copies of the license shall be delivered to the applicant by the licensing authority. A license is void unless used within 10 days after the date it is issued.
    (5) If an individual purchases or otherwise acquires a pistol, the seller shall fill out the license forms describing the pistol, together with the date of sale or acquisition, and sign his or her name in ink indicating that the pistol was sold to or otherwise acquired by the purchaser. The purchaser shall also sign his or her name in ink indicating the purchase or other acquisition of the pistol from the seller. The seller may retain a copy of the license as a record of the transaction. The purchaser shall receive 3 copies of the license. The purchaser shall return 2 copies of the license to the licensing authority within 10 days after the date the pistol is purchased or acquired. The return of the copies to the licensing authority may be made in person or may be made by first-class mail or certified mail sent within the 10-day period to the proper address of the licensing authority. A purchaser who fails to comply with the requirements of this subsection is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $250.00. If a purchaser is found responsible for a state civil infraction under this subsection, the court shall notify the department of state police of that determination.
    (6) Within 48 hours after receiving the license copies returned under subsection (5), the licensing authority shall forward 1 copy of the license to the department of state police. The licensing authority shall retain the other copy of the license as an official record for not less than 6 years. Within 10 days after receiving the license copies returned under subsection (5), the licensing authority shall electronically enter the information into the pistol entry database as required by the department of state police if it has the ability to electronically enter that information. If the licensing authority does not have that ability, the licensing authority shall provide that information to the department of state police in a manner otherwise required by the department of state police. Any licensing authority that provided pistol descriptions to the department of state police under former section 9 of this act shall continue to provide pistol descriptions to the department of state police under this subsection. The purchaser has the right to obtain a copy of the information placed in the pistol entry database under this subsection to verify the accuracy of that information. The licensing authority may charge a fee not to exceed $1.00 for the cost of providing the copy. The licensee may carry, use, possess, and transport the pistol for 30 days beginning on the date of purchase or acquisition only while he or she is in possession of his or her copy of the license. However, the person is not required to have the license in his or her possession while carrying, using, possessing, or transporting the pistol after this period.
    (7) This section does not apply to the purchase of pistols from wholesalers by dealers regularly engaged in the business of selling pistols at retail, or to the sale, barter, or exchange of pistols kept as relics or curios not made for modern ammunition or permanently deactivated. This section does not prevent the transfer of ownership of pistols that are inherited if the license to purchase is approved by the commissioner or chief of police, sheriff, or their authorized deputies, and signed by the personal representative of the estate or by the next of kin having authority to dispose of the pistol.
    (8) An individual who is not a resident of this state is not required to obtain a license under this section if all of the following conditions apply:
    (a) The individual is licensed in his or her state of residence to purchase, carry, or transport a pistol.
    (b) The individual is in possession of the license described in subdivision (a).
    (c) The individual is the owner of the pistol he or she possesses, carries, or transports.
    (d) The individual possesses the pistol for a lawful purpose as that term is defined in section 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a.
    (e) The individual is in this state for a period of 180 days or less and does not intend to establish residency in this state.
    (9) An individual who is a nonresident of this state shall present the license described in subsection (8)(a) upon the demand of a police officer. An individual who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
    (10) The licensing authority may require a person claiming active duty status with the United States armed forces to provide proof of 1 or both of the following:
    (a) The person's home of record.
    (b) Permanent active duty assignment in this state.
    (11) This section does not apply to a person who is younger than the age required under subsection (3)(b) and who possesses a pistol if all of the following conditions apply:
    (a) The person is not otherwise prohibited from possessing that pistol.
    (b) The person is at a recognized target range.
    (c) The person possesses the pistol for the purpose of target practice or instruction in the safe use of a pistol.
    (d) The person's parent or guardian is physically present and supervising the person.
    (e) The owner of the pistol is physically present.
    (12) This section does not apply to a person who possesses a pistol if all of the following conditions apply:
    (a) The person is not otherwise prohibited from possessing a pistol.
    (b) The person is at a recognized target range or shooting facility.
    (c) The person possesses the pistol for the purpose of target practice or instruction in the safe use of a pistol.
    (d) The owner of the pistol is physically present and supervising the use of the pistol.
    (13) The licensing authority shall provide a basic pistol safety brochure to each applicant for a license under this section before the applicant answers the basic pistol safety review questionnaire. A basic pistol safety brochure shall contain, but is not limited to providing, information on all of the following subjects:
    (a) Rules for safe handling and use of pistols.
    (b) Safe storage of pistols.
    (c) Nomenclature and description of various types of pistols.
    (d) The responsibilities of owning a pistol.
    (14) The basic pistol safety brochure shall be supplied in addition to the safety pamphlet required by section 9b.
    (15) The basic pistol safety brochure required in subsection (13) shall be produced by a national nonprofit membership organization that provides voluntary pistol safety programs that include training individuals in the safe handling and use of pistols.
    (16) A person who forges any matter on an application for a license under this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.
    (17) A licensing authority shall implement this section during all of the licensing authority's normal business hours and shall set hours for implementation that allow an applicant to use the license within the time period set forth in subsection (4).





    See highlighted portion.


    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  11. #11
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    My question relative to a non-resident from a state that lacks licensing/registration (ie: Vermont, Alaska, and soon to be Arizona) to possibly obtain a MI PPP is answered in this subsection:

    "(c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state. For the purposes of this section, a person shall be considered a legal resident of this state if any of the following apply:
    (i) The person has a valid, lawfully obtained Michigan driver license issued under the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.1 to 257.923, or an official state personal identification card issued under 1972 PA 222, MCL 28.291 to 28.300."


  12. #12
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    The question is do they qualify for either of those? That would be the determining factor.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  13. #13
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    Wisconsin does not have any form of pistol registration so 28.422 would not apply in this case.

    The only statute, IMO, that's applicable is 28.432

    28.432 Inapplicability of MCL 28.422; citation as “Janet Kukuk act”.

    Sec. 12.

    (1) Section 2 does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A police or correctional agency of the United States or of this state or any subdivision of this state.

    (b) The United States army, air force, navy, or marine corps.

    (c) An organization authorized by law to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state.

    (d) The national guard, armed forces reserves, or other duly authorized military organization.

    (e) A member of an entity or organization described in subdivisions (a) through (d) for a pistol while engaged in the course of his or her duties with that entity or while going to or returning from those duties.

    (f) A United States citizen holding a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by another state.

    (g) The regular and ordinary transportation of a pistol as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms or a licensed dealer.

    (h) Purchasing, owning, carrying, possessing, using, or transporting an antique firearm. As used in this subdivision, "antique firearm" means that term as defined in section 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a.

    (i) An individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting a pistol belonging to another individual, if the other individual's possession of the pistol is authorized by law and the individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting the pistol has obtained a license under section 5b to carry a concealed pistol or is exempt from licensure as provided in section 12a.

    (2) The amendatory act that added subsection (1)(h) shall be known and may be cited as the "Janet Kukuk act".


    ETA: This statute would allow OC with restrictions but no CC on foot or in vehicle per 750.231a.

  14. #14
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    No because Michigan only recognizes a permit issued by the state of the individuals residence.

    Here is a good reference material site:

    http://handgunlaw.us/

    While traveling I refer to this site frequently.

    Some agencies have actually printed their state's info from that site as a handout for informational purposes when I have sought guidance while traveling.

    It is very very accurate and up to date.

  15. #15
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    I agree ! I use that site all the time.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  16. #16
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    No because Michigan only recognizes a permit issued by the state of the individuals residence.

    Here is a good reference material site:

    http://handgunlaw.us/

    While traveling I refer to this site frequently.

    Some agencies have actually printed their state's info from that site as a handout for informational purposes when I have sought guidance while traveling.

    It is very very accurate and up to date.
    That is correct if the non-resident of Michigan chooses to CC.

    Read 28.432 (f) again.

  17. #17
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    No because Michigan only recognizes a permit issued by the state of the individuals residence.

    Here is a good reference material site:

    http://handgunlaw.us/

    While traveling I refer to this site frequently.

    Some agencies have actually printed their state's info from that site as a handout for informational purposes when I have sought guidance while traveling.

    It is very very accurate and up to date.
    That is correct if the non-resident of Michigan chooses to CC.

    Read 28.432 (f) again.
    My re-reading and re-reading of 28.432 (f) seems, on the surface, to mean that a resident from a state other than Michigan could carry under the non-resident license issued from a third state.

    Everything I've ever read prior to this has lead me to believe that Michigan only recognized permits issued by the visiting non-resident's state of residence.

  18. #18
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    No because Michigan only recognizes a permit issued by the state of the individuals residence.

    Here is a good reference material site:

    http://handgunlaw.us/

    While traveling I refer to this site frequently.

    Some agencies have actually printed their state's info from that site as a handout for informational purposes when I have sought guidance while traveling.

    It is very very accurate and up to date.
    That is correct if the non-resident of Michigan chooses to CC.

    Read 28.432 (f) again.
    My re-reading and re-reading of 28.432 (f) seems, on the surface, to mean that a resident from a state other than Michigan could carry under the non-resident license issued from a third state.

    Everything I've ever read prior to this has lead me to believe that Michigan only recognized permits issued by the visiting non-resident's state of residence.
    750.231a requires a residential permit/license for a non-resident of Michigan to CC on foot or loaded in vehicle. 28.422 (8) does not apply due to a lack of pistol registration in Wi: e.g. License To Purchase, FOID, Etc.

    Applying rules of statutory construction in Michigan to 28.432, the non-resident of Michigan can OC, but there are restrictions in place for him or her if carrying under their non-resident license/permit.

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