Downtown Royal Oak OC Dinner 2/13 @ 6PM

imported post

Is this a MOC event.

imported post

T Vance wrote:

Is this a MOC event.

Click to expand...

I don't see it to be one. Looks like you're the first to even mention MOC.

imported post

Unless you are planning to have a large group IE 8 or more I would not see a reason to get permission first. (Others of the coordinators feel free to chime in)

And generally these informal meet and eats are not sponsored by MOC although MOC members and even officers may attend.

So far most MOC sponsored events involve an information booth or planned march or something of that nature. They also quite often include the news media.

One of the things that we are working on is a set of guidelines for MOC sponsored events so that everyone will know which we are dealing with and when it may be advisable to inform property owners and seek permission for certain types of events.

In this case as long as it does not become so large as to require special accommodations by the facility then I see no reason to seek permission.

imported post

autosurgeon wrote:

In this case as long as it does not become so large as to require special accommodations by the facility then I see no reason to seek permission.

Click to expand...

I know you said events are being discussed, but what happens if an event (such as this one)is organized and is not technically an MOC event, but ends up getting 8+ people to attend, and permission is denied? Then what? Just curious, as these are things that should be brought up and thought about.

imported post

Why this "permission" stuff?

If the group is on the large side, call for a table.

Then go. If turned away at the door, go somewhere else.

I am not for asking for permission to do anything.

Let the property owner/agent see that there is no threat instead of giving him a "visual" by which to make a decision.

imported post

T Vance wrote:

autosurgeon wrote:

In this case as long as it does not become so large as to require special accommodations by the facility then I see no reason to seek permission.

Click to expand...

I know you said events are being discussed, but what happens if an event (such as this one)is organized and is not technically an MOC event, but ends up getting 8+ people to attend, and permission is denied? Then what? Just curious, as these are things that should be brought up and thought about.

Click to expand...

If they ask you to leave.... leave and go to your prearranged plan B location.

Also I should clarify it is not so much asking permission as letting the owner know what to expect from the event.

imported post

CV67PAT wrote:

dougwg wrote:

Have you ran this by the owner?

Click to expand...

Why?

Are we going to start seeking prior approval for going out to dinner?

Maybe we should find out if the owner will object to foreign cars in his parking lot.

Click to expand...

I'll tell you why, its so the police don't get called. If I was planning a business meeting in a restaurant I would call and ask the owner, as it is his private property, and I don't see how this is different. Then we don't need a 'plan B' location.

...although I guess if you want another Lansing, thats up to you.

I also think we should call the ROPD, not to ask permission but to tell them we will be there, so that if they do get any calls about us, they won't pull a Lansing, they'll just go 'oh yeah, we knew about that.'

...if you really wanted to accomplish something, you should invite them to join us.

PS: When I worked for Circuit City there was a woman who would not allow us to park our Scion in her driveway because it was foreign. To each their own.

imported post

Evil Creamsicle wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

dougwg wrote:

Have you ran this by the owner?

Click to expand...

Why?

Are we going to start seeking prior approval for going out to dinner?

Maybe we should find out if the owner will object to foreign cars in his parking lot.

Click to expand...

I'll tell you why, its so the police don't get called. If I was planning a business meeting in a restaurant I would call and ask the owner, as it is his private property, and I don't see how this is different. Then we don't need a 'plan B' location.

...although I guess if you want another Lansing, thats up to you.

I also think we should call the ROPD, not to ask permission but to tell them we will be there, so that if they do get any calls about us, they won't pull a Lansing, they'll just go 'oh yeah, we knew about that.'

...if you really wanted to accomplish something, you should invite them to join us.

PS: When I worked for Circuit City there was a woman who would not allow us to park our Scion in her driveway because it was foreign. To each their own.

Click to expand...

So do you call every private property owner ahead of time to prevent the calling of police?

If so... why?

If not... why not?

Maybe that's what we should start doing. If it will stop the police from being called.

Maybe szerdi should have called ahead when he went shopping for sex... err socks.

Then the police wouldn't have been called. Oh wait he did call. My bad.

And just what was so bad about Lansing??? The way I'm reading it the police were told NOT to respond from the caller to the NON-EMERGENCY police line.

You do have a point though, I think we should ask permission to speak freely whenever we are on private property too.

imported post

I dont know about you guys/gals when I go OC'ing I dont ask permission. Its not required and have never done it in the past. As for MOC what made it look like an MOC event? Did I miss something?

There is no need to be paranoid about the police. Just like I dont call the Warren PD everytime i go for a walk OC'ing.

~Mike

imported post

mikestilly wrote:

I dont know about you guys/gals when I go OC'ing I dont ask permission. Its not required and have never done it in the past. As for MOC what made it look like an MOC event? Did I miss something?

There is no need to be paranoid about the police. Just like I dont call the Warren PD everytime i go for a walk OC'ing.

~Mike

Click to expand...

Maybe in Warren. That gives them some time to get the chopper up and to mobilize SWAT.

Anywhere else... nope.

I don't think Royal Joke has a chopper. Lots of bicycles, but no chopper.

imported post

CV67PAT wrote:

Evil Creamsicle wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

dougwg wrote:

Have you ran this by the owner?

Click to expand...

Why?

Are we going to start seeking prior approval for going out to dinner?

Maybe we should find out if the owner will object to foreign cars in his parking lot.

Click to expand...

I'll tell you why, its so the police don't get called. If I was planning a business meeting in a restaurant I would call and ask the owner, as it is his private property, and I don't see how this is different. Then we don't need a 'plan B' location.

...although I guess if you want another Lansing, thats up to you.

I also think we should call the ROPD, not to ask permission but to tell them we will be there, so that if they do get any calls about us, they won't pull a Lansing, they'll just go 'oh yeah, we knew about that.'

...if you really wanted to accomplish something, you should invite them to join us.

PS: When I worked for Circuit City there was a woman who would not allow us to park our Scion in her driveway because it was foreign. To each their own.

Click to expand...

So do you call every private property owner ahead of time to prevent the calling of police?

If so... why?

If not... why not?

Maybe that's what we should start doing. If it will stop the police from being called.

Maybe szerdi should have called ahead when he went shopping for sex... err socks.

Then the police wouldn't have been called. Oh wait he did call. My bad.

And just what was so bad about Lansing??? The way I'm reading it the police were told NOT to respond from the caller to the NON-EMERGENCY police line.

You do have a point though, I think we should ask permission to speak freely whenever we are on private property too.

Click to expand...

Alright smartass,
now read what I actually said.

I don't ask permission to go carry somewhere.

I do ask permission to have a demonstration in someones establishment.

As for inviting the cops to join you, well, what better way to educate them then over dinner?

Some of the largest OC events that were put together around Monroe, there were no issues, because people were informed.

What better way to educate the public and law enforcement than to inform them.

edited to add: If we mean to 'educate and desensitize', which, I was under the impression we were, what good does it do if nobody even knows we were there?

imported post

It's not often that Evil and I don't agree on things, but I wouldn't ask permission from the restaurant or notify the police, either.If the group gets kicked out, go elsewhere. If the ROPDdetainsyou, sue them. It'snot complicated.

imported post

Michigander wrote:

It's not often that Evil and I don't agree on things, but I wouldn't ask permission from the restaurant or notify the police, either.If the group gets kicked out, go elsewhere. If the ROPDdetainsyou, sue them. It'snot complicated.

Click to expand...

DING DING DING DING DING

We have a winner!!!

imported post

We will achieve our ultimate goal faster if we make friends.

imported post

Friends have been made before without asking permission.

Why the need to start now?

I see more signs going up like in Battle Creek incident. But not coming down.

imported post

Michigander wrote:

It's not often that Evil and I don't agree on things, but I wouldn't ask permission from the restaurant or notify the police, either.

Click to expand...

What I was suggesting is not mandatory, just one way we 'could' go about things. If we call and talk to the restaurant, and they don't want us there, we go somewhere else to begin with. Just seems like an easier way to sort things out without verbal altercation, or 'sheeple panic'. The end result would be the same: If they don't want us carrying there, we won't patronize them, but the business would be appreciative and likely more receptive of us in the future.

If the group gets kicked out, go elsewhere. If the ROPDdetainsyou, sue them. It'snot complicated.

Click to expand...

I don't thing we ought to get permission to exercise our rights either... I want my meaning to be clear here. My suggestion was not to ask permission from the police. My suggestion was made merely as a means to educate them, since ROPD has been hostile in the past. If they show up to kick us out, the rights and legal information we have for them will not be as well received. It just seems that getting the point across without having to go to court over it would be a better outcome.

CV67PAT
Apologies for snapping at you so harshly, as I do understand your meaning. I just don't appreciate the light you were shedding on my statement, as I believe it was being misinterpreted.
For the most part, I agree with you, I'm just looking for ways to maximize our political progress factor without going 'over the top' and being considered radicals.

imported post

I'm not for going over the top either.

I for one have done a complete 180 on the LG issue.

But I do not see the need to carry "caution" to the other extreme either.

Many meet & greets have been conducted without seeking "permission" beforehand.

Draw upon those experiences and proceed.

[line]ETA: EC you never need to apologize to me for expression of a well stated opinion.

imported post

CV67PAT wrote:

I'm not for going over the top either.

I for one have done a complete 180 on the LG issue.

But I do not see the need to carry "caution" to the other extreme either.

Many meet & greets have been conducted without seeking "permission" beforehand.

Draw upon those experiences and proceed.

[line]ETA: EC you never need to apologize to me for expression of a well stated opinion.

Click to expand...

Also understood.

In light of this post, allow me to reword my statement for better comprehensibility:

We should not 'ask permission'.

But, it might be beneficial for us to tell the establishment we will be coming on such-and-such a day.

Not as a precautionary measure, but because it will put us in good-standing with the establishment.

This^^ is how I should have worded it to begin with.

imported post

But look at what happened at Battle Creek.

imported post

Did we notify them?

Or was that the police reading this board and doing that of their own accord. I was under the impression that the Battle Creek sign incident was initiated by the police of their own accord, and that the business just didn't really want to argue with the cops.

This is what I got from what I read, if I am wrong, please correct me.

ETA: If I am NOT wrong though, that would have happened whether we told them or not...