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Thread: Is is legal to carry in a Virginia Beach Recreation Center?

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    ....... Is is legal to carry in a Virginia Beach Recreation Center?


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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Chkultr wrote:
    ....... Is is legal to carry in a Virginia Beach Recreation Center?
    Yep, as long as it is not a prohibited place like a school, etc.
    James Reynolds

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    Chkultr wrote:
    ....... Is is legal to carry in a Virginia Beach Recreation Center?
    Yep, as long as it is not a prohibited place like a school, etc.
    Or not private property like a boys club.

    The question begs to be more specific.

    Yata hey
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    The City of Virginia Beach Recreation Centers cannot ban firearms carry, except when a school related event is occurring (swim meet), during which the pool area is being exclusively used for a school event and is off limits to carry, but the rest of the Center is not. Recreation centers, libraries, city hall, police station public areas, and other city buildings are covered by preemption. The only ones that aren't are correctional or juvenile offender facilities.

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    johnfenter wrote:
    The City of Virginia Beach Recreation Centers cannot ban firearms carry, except when a school related event is occurring (swim meet), during which the pool area is being exclusively used for a school event and is off limits to carry, but the rest of the Center is not. Recreation centers, libraries, city hall, police station public areas, and other city buildings are covered by preemption. The only ones that aren't are correctional or juvenile offender facilities.
    This is what I thought was correct. Thank you to all the responses!

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    here is their list of rules:

    General Recreation Center Rules


    • Membership Cards or Visitor Passes must be presented in order to use the recreation center or participate in programs.

    • Proper footwear, shirts, and appropriate dry clothing are required in the facility.

    • Please eat and drink in designated areas, such as the snack bar. All Virginia Beach municipal facilities are smoke-free.

    • Radios, CD players, and MP3 players require headphones.

    • Animals, skateboards, roller blades, and bicycles are not allowed in the facility. Skateboarding is not permitted within the facility grounds.

    • Only City materials may be posted on City property. Other items may not be displayed or solicited.

    • Only Virginia Beach Parks and Recreation employees are permitted to provide instruction for a fee in the recreation center.

    • Courteous conduct is expected from all those using our facility or on the facility grounds. Loitering and disruptive language or behavior (such as horseplay, profanity, and language or behavior that is profane, vulgar, sexual, ethnically degrading, disrespectful or threatening) are prohibited.

    • Dangerous toys, alcoholic beverages and illegal drugs are not allowed.

    • No illegal carrying of weapons.

    • Virginia Beach Parks & Recreation is not responsible for lost, damaged or stolen items.

    • Patrons are expected to dress appropriately. Clothing should not depict lewd graphics or obscene language. Undergarments should not be visible

    LinK: http://www.vbgov.com/vgn.aspx?vgnext...00870b640aRCRD

    See they use the "no illegal carrying of weapons" rule because they do not like it, but cannot ban it.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    That's the ubiquitous "no breaking any laws" rule... but they word it so that the uninformed will think you can't carry any weapons.

    TFred


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    My Wife works at one of the VB rec centers. She sent me a text about the conversation they were having at work the other day. Some of the employees think it is illegal for you to do be able to walk in the rec center with a gun! She stood her ground and corrected them.

    Funny because I have been a few times to visit with her and I open carry!



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    Now, what about Rec' Centers like Great Neck? It is within 1000' of Cox High School. Would you need a CHP to carry there or, because it is public property where carry CANNOT be prohibited...

    Which one overrides?
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    wylde007 wrote:
    Now, what about Rec' Centers like Great Neck? It is within 1000' of Cox High School. Would you need a CHP to carry there or, because it is public property where carry CANNOT be prohibited...

    Which one overrides?
    My "guess" would be that if one did not have a CHP, you'd be alright at the Rec Center, but in violation in route - unless you could figure out a way to get there w/o going through the GFZ.

    IMO - each law stands separately.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    unless you could figure out a way to get there w/o going through the GFZ.
    Physically impossible.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    wylde007 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    unless you could figure out a way to get there w/o going through the GFZ.
    Physically impossible.
    Correct unless you live in the neighborhood behind the rec center and ball fields. You could walk through the park to get to the rec center!

    What I don't get is the GFZ! It is a public city street that you are on. The 1000' rule does not make sense to me! Does that mean you can't walk out of your house to your car if you live across the street?
    If that is the case then just about EVERYWHERE you drive here you are in violation. Cox has two sections if this is the case. Great Neck and Shorehaven!



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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    wylde007 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    unless you could figure out a way to get there w/o going through the GFZ.
    Physically impossible.
    Unless you are one of the "privileged" with a CHP - then you can walk right up.

    Really makes a lot of sense doesn't it? :?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Crystal Clear to me!!!!

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    wylde007 wrote:
    Now, what about Rec' Centers like Great Neck? It is within 1000' of Cox High School. Would you need a CHP to carry there or, because it is public property where carry CANNOT be prohibited...

    Which one overrides?
    IMHO, IINAL, but...

    There is no nexus between your carying a firearm and interstate commerce. Therefore the FGFSZ would not apply.

    The FGFSZ really is the bogey man. Do not fear it.

    Live Free of Die
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    wylde007 wrote:
    Now, what about Rec' Centers like Great Neck? It is within 1000' of Cox High School. Would you need a CHP to carry there or, because it is public property where carry CANNOT be prohibited...

    Which one overrides?
    IMHO, IINAL, but...

    There is no nexus between your carying a firearm and interstate commerce. Therefore the FGFSZ would not apply.

    The FGFSZ really is the bogey man. Do not fear it.

    Live Free of Die
    The tenuous nexus is that your firearm *could* haveimpacted or otherwise participated in interstate commerce and thus be so regulated.

    Amazingly enough, the BATFE has taken the stance that all firearms regardless of point of origin or destination are affecting interstate commerce and thus under their jurisdiction. They've taken Tennesee and Montana to court over their Firearms Freedom Acts.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    darthmord wrote:
    The tenuous nexus is that your firearm *could* haveimpacted or otherwise participated in interstate commerce and thus be so regulated.

    Amazingly enough, the BATFE has taken the stance that all firearms regardless of point of origin or destination are affecting interstate commerce and thus under their jurisdiction. They've taken Tennesee and Montana to court over their Firearms Freedom Acts.
    It is either a back to the future thing or forward to the past event.

    BATFE wants to control what might have been, could be - not what is.

    Guess its all in your definition of what "is" means. :? :X

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Chkultr wrote:
    wylde007 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    unless you could figure out a way to get there w/o going through the GFZ.
    Physically impossible.
    Correct unless you live in the neighborhood behind the rec center and ball fields. You could walk through the park to get to the rec center!

    What I don't get is the GFZ! It is a public city street that you are on. The 1000' rule does not make sense to me! Does that mean you can't walk out of your house to your car if you live across the street?
    If that is the case then just about EVERYWHERE you drive here you are in violation. Cox has two sections if this is the case. Great Neck and Shorehaven!

    Let me begin by admitting that I am quite new to this Forum and that IANAL. That being said, I have seen several references to the 1000 ft GFZ with regard to schools. Some believe that there is a prohibition against carrying within 1000 ft of a school.

    I decided to do some research and see if I could find applicable VA law. Here is an excerpt from the Commonwealth's own web site:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-280

    § 18.2-280. Willfully discharging firearms in public places.

    A. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm in any street in a city or town, or in any place of public business or place of public gathering, and such conduct results in bodily injury to another person, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. If such conduct does not result in bodily injury to another person, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    B. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon the buildings and grounds of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in a program or curriculum sponsored by or conducted with permission of a public, private or religious school.

    C. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon any public property within 1,000 feet of the property line of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school property he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in lawful hunting.

    D. This section shall not apply to any law-enforcement officer in the performance of his official duties nor to any other person whose said willful act is otherwise justifiable or excusable at law in the protection of his life or property, or is otherwise specifically authorized by law.

    E. Nothing in this statute shall preclude the Commonwealth from electing to prosecute under any other applicable provision of law instead of this section.

    Subparagraph "C." addresses this issue. And it seems quite clear to me that the prohibition is against discharging a weapon within 1000 ft, not simpy carrying. And it seems to apply to public property only.For example, there are many private homes within 1000 feet of schools in which you have every right to carry a firearm and to use it in defense of your family and property.

    This makes sense in light of the oft cited permission to CC on school property as long as the weapon remains concealed and the carrier remains in the vehicle.

    So, I cannot find any State law establishing a "Gun Free Zone", and preemption would prevent any local laws creating such a GFZ.

    Have I overlooked something here?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    USNA69 wrote:
    Chkultr wrote:
    wylde007 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    unless you could figure out a way to get there w/o going through the GFZ.
    Physically impossible.
    Correct unless you live in the neighborhood behind the rec center and ball fields. You could walk through the park to get to the rec center!

    What I don't get is the GFZ! It is a public city street that you are on. The 1000' rule does not make sense to me! Does that mean you can't walk out of your house to your car if you live across the street?
    If that is the case then just about EVERYWHERE you drive here you are in violation. Cox has two sections if this is the case. Great Neck and Shorehaven!

    Let me begin by admitting that I am quite new to this Forum and that IANAL. That being said, I have seen several references to the 1000 ft GFZ with regard to schools. Some believe that there is a prohibition against carrying within 1000 ft of a school.

    I decided to do some research and see if I could find applicable VA law. Here is an excerpt from the Commonwealth's own web site:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-280

    § 18.2-280. Willfully discharging firearms in public places.

    A. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm in any street in a city or town, or in any place of public business or place of public gathering, and such conduct results in bodily injury to another person, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. If such conduct does not result in bodily injury to another person, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    B. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon the buildings and grounds of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in a program or curriculum sponsored by or conducted with permission of a public, private or religious school.

    C. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon any public property within 1,000 feet of the property line of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school property he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in lawful hunting.

    D. This section shall not apply to any law-enforcement officer in the performance of his official duties nor to any other person whose said willful act is otherwise justifiable or excusable at law in the protection of his life or property, or is otherwise specifically authorized by law.

    E. Nothing in this statute shall preclude the Commonwealth from electing to prosecute under any other applicable provision of law instead of this section.

    Subparagraph "C." addresses this issue. And it seems quite clear to me that the prohibition is against discharging a weapon within 1000 ft, not simpy carrying. And it seems to apply to public property only.For example, there are many private homes within 1000 feet of schools in which you have every right to carry a firearm and to use it in defense of your family and property.

    This makes sense in light of the oft cited permission to CC on school property as long as the weapon remains concealed and the carrier remains in the vehicle.

    So, I cannot find any State law establishing a "Gun Free Zone", and preemption would prevent any local laws creating such a GFZ.

    Have I overlooked something here?
    GFZ relates to public and private K-12 schools, buildings and grounds. Holding a permit excludes one from the 1000 ft rule but not from the physical property thereof except when picking up or dropping off someone in the driveway/parking lot - a few other exceptions are noted.

    Federal law:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Fre...es_Act_of_1990

    Code of Virginia:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-308.1

    I recall that you may carry on your own property even within the 1000 ft GFZ but didn't come up with the cite quickly - anybody?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member USNA69's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    USNA69 wrote:
    Chkultr wrote:
    wylde007 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    unless you could figure out a way to get there w/o going through the GFZ.
    Physically impossible.
    Correct unless you live in the neighborhood behind the rec center and ball fields. You could walk through the park to get to the rec center!

    What I don't get is the GFZ! It is a public city street that you are on. The 1000' rule does not make sense to me! Does that mean you can't walk out of your house to your car if you live across the street?
    If that is the case then just about EVERYWHERE you drive here you are in violation. Cox has two sections if this is the case. Great Neck and Shorehaven!
    Let me begin by admitting that I am quite new to this Forum and that IANAL. That being said, I have seen several references to the 1000 ft GFZ with regard to schools. Some believe that there is a prohibition against carrying within 1000 ft of a school.

    I decided to do some research and see if I could find applicable VA law. Here is an excerpt from the Commonwealth's own web site:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-280

    § 18.2-280. Willfully discharging firearms in public places.

    A. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm in any street in a city or town, or in any place of public business or place of public gathering, and such conduct results in bodily injury to another person, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. If such conduct does not result in bodily injury to another person, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    B. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon the buildings and grounds of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in a program or curriculum sponsored by or conducted with permission of a public, private or religious school.

    C. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon any public property within 1,000 feet of the property line of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school property he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in lawful hunting.

    D. This section shall not apply to any law-enforcement officer in the performance of his official duties nor to any other person whose said willful act is otherwise justifiable or excusable at law in the protection of his life or property, or is otherwise specifically authorized by law.

    E. Nothing in this statute shall preclude the Commonwealth from electing to prosecute under any other applicable provision of law instead of this section.

    Subparagraph "C." addresses this issue. And it seems quite clear to me that the prohibition is against discharging a weapon within 1000 ft, not simpy carrying. And it seems to apply to public property only.For example, there are many private homes within 1000 feet of schools in which you have every right to carry a firearm and to use it in defense of your family and property.

    This makes sense in light of the oft cited permission to CC on school property as long as the weapon remains concealed and the carrier remains in the vehicle.

    So, I cannot find any State law establishing a "Gun Free Zone", and preemption would prevent any local laws creating such a GFZ.

    Have I overlooked something here?
    GFZ relates to public and private K-12 schools, buildings and grounds. Holding a permit excludes one from the 1000 ft rule but not from the physical property thereof except when picking up or dropping off someone in the driveway/parking lot - a few other exceptions are noted.

    Federal law:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Fre...es_Act_of_1990

    Code of Virginia:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-308.1

    I recall that you may carry on your own property even within the 1000 ft GFZ but didn't come up with the cite quickly - anybody?

    Yata hey
    Here is the link to the current Federal law: http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf

    The "private property" provision can be seen in (2) (B) (i).

    Also, CC holders are exempt, per (2) (B) (ii).

    As you can see, the Act of 1990 was overturned by the Supremes in 1995 and re-enacted in 1996,with the following amendment, among others:
    [/font][/font]
    It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to
    [/font][/font]

    [/font][/font]
    possess a firearm [/font][/font]that has moved in or that otherwise[/font][/font][/font]affects interstate or foreign commerce [/font][/font][/font]at a place that[/font][/font] the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to [/font][/font]believe, is a school zone.
    Your Wikipedia reference stated:

    Congress re-enacted the law in the GFSZ Act of 1996, following the Supreme Court's ruling, correcting the technical defects identified by the Court by adding wording placing the burden on the prosecutor to prove an additional element, that the "firearm has moved in or otherwise affects interstate commerce."[1].

    I wonder how many prosecutors have pursued such cases. With rare exceptions, I would say that our weapons have "moved in interstate commerce".

    So,if you do not have a CHP, you are in violation of federal lawwhen OC and you drive up:
    Granby St (Maury HS, Granby HS, Norfolk Collegiate, Northside Middle School)
    Colley Ave (Blair MS) Hampton Blvd (Larchmont ES, Sewells Point ES)... I could go on.

    Is this a great country ... or what???
    [/font][/font]

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