Is is legal to carry in a Virginia Beach Recreation Center?

....... Is is legal to carry in a Virginia Beach Recreation Center?

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Chkultr wrote:

....... Is is legal to carry in a Virginia Beach Recreation Center?

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Yep, as long as it is not a prohibited place like a school, etc.

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The City of Virginia Beach Recreation Centers cannot ban firearms carry, except when a school related event is occurring (swim meet), during which the pool area is being exclusively used for a school event and is off limits to carry, but the rest of the Center is not. Recreation centers, libraries, city hall, police station public areas, and other city buildings are covered by preemption. The only ones that aren't are correctional or juvenile offender facilities.

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  Membership Cards or Visitor Passes must be presented in order to use the recreation center or participate in programs.
  
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  Proper footwear, shirts, and appropriate dry clothing are required in the facility.
  
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  Please eat and drink in designated areas, such as the snack bar. All Virginia Beach municipal facilities are smoke-free.
  
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  Radios, CD players, and MP3 players require headphones.
  
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  Animals, skateboards, roller blades, and bicycles are not allowed in the facility. Skateboarding is not permitted within the facility grounds.
  
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  Only City materials may be posted on City property. Other items may not be displayed or solicited.
  
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  Only Virginia Beach Parks and Recreation employees are permitted to provide instruction for a fee in the recreation center.
  
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  Courteous conduct is expected from all those using our facility or on the facility grounds. Loitering and disruptive language or behavior (such as horseplay, profanity, and language or behavior that is profane, vulgar, sexual, ethnically degrading, disrespectful or threatening) are prohibited.
  
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  Dangerous toys, alcoholic beverages and illegal drugs are not allowed.
  
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  No illegal carrying of weapons.
  
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  Virginia Beach Parks & Recreation is not responsible for lost, damaged or stolen items.
  
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  Patrons are expected to dress appropriately. Clothing should not depict lewd graphics or obscene language. Undergarments should not be visible

Now, what about Rec' Centers like Great Neck? It is within 1000' of Cox High School. Would you need a CHP to carry there or, because it is public property where carry CANNOT be prohibited...

Which one overrides?

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unless you could figure out a way to get there w/o going through the GFZ.

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Grapeshot wrote:

unless you could figure out a way to get there w/o going through the GFZ.

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Physically impossible.

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Grapeshot wrote:

unless you could figure out a way to get there w/o going through the GFZ.

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Physically impossible.

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Now, what about Rec' Centers like Great Neck? It is within 1000' of Cox High School. Would you need a CHP to carry there or, because it is public property where carry CANNOT be prohibited...

Which one overrides?

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wylde007 wrote:

Now, what about Rec' Centers like Great Neck? It is within 1000' of Cox High School. Would you need a CHP to carry there or, because it is public property where carry CANNOT be prohibited...

Which one overrides?

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IMHO, IINAL, but...

There is no nexus between your carying a firearm and interstate commerce. Therefore the FGFSZ would not apply.

The FGFSZ really is the bogey man. Do not fear it.

Live Free of Die

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The tenuous nexus is that your firearm *could* haveimpacted or otherwise participated in interstate commerce and thus be so regulated.

Amazingly enough, the BATFE has taken the stance that all firearms regardless of point of origin or destination are affecting interstate commerce and thus under their jurisdiction. They've taken Tennesee and Montana to court over their Firearms Freedom Acts.

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wylde007 wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

unless you could figure out a way to get there w/o going through the GFZ.

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Physically impossible.

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Correct unless you live in the neighborhood behind the rec center and ball fields. You could walk through the park to get to the rec center!

What I don't get is the GFZ! It is a public city street that you are on. The 1000' rule does not make sense to me! Does that mean you can't walk out of your house to your car if you live across the street?
If that is the case then just about EVERYWHERE you drive here you are in violation. Cox has two sections if this is the case. Great Neck and Shorehaven!

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Chkultr wrote:

wylde007 wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

unless you could figure out a way to get there w/o going through the GFZ.

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Physically impossible.

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Correct unless you live in the neighborhood behind the rec center and ball fields. You could walk through the park to get to the rec center!

What I don't get is the GFZ! It is a public city street that you are on. The 1000' rule does not make sense to me! Does that mean you can't walk out of your house to your car if you live across the street?
If that is the case then just about EVERYWHERE you drive here you are in violation. Cox has two sections if this is the case. Great Neck and Shorehaven!

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Let me begin by admitting that I am quite new to this Forum and that IANAL. That being said, I have seen several references to the 1000 ft GFZ with regard to schools. Some believe that there is a prohibition against carrying within 1000 ft of a school.

I decided to do some research and see if I could find applicable VA law. Here is an excerpt from the Commonwealth's own web site:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-280

§ 18.2-280. Willfully discharging firearms in public places.

A. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm in any street in a city or town, or in any place of public business or place of public gathering, and such conduct results in bodily injury to another person, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. If such conduct does not result in bodily injury to another person, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

B. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon the buildings and grounds of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in a program or curriculum sponsored by or conducted with permission of a public, private or religious school.

C. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon any public property within 1,000 feet of the property line of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school property he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in lawful hunting.

D. This section shall not apply to any law-enforcement officer in the performance of his official duties nor to any other person whose said willful act is otherwise justifiable or excusable at law in the protection of his life or property, or is otherwise specifically authorized by law.

E. Nothing in this statute shall preclude the Commonwealth from electing to prosecute under any other applicable provision of law instead of this section.

Subparagraph "C." addresses this issue. And it seems quite clear to me that the prohibition is against discharging a weapon within 1000 ft, not simpy carrying. And it seems to apply to public property only.For example, there are many private homes within 1000 feet of schools in which you have every right to carry a firearm and to use it in defense of your family and property.

This makes sense in light of the oft cited permission to CC on school property as long as the weapon remains concealed and the carrier remains in the vehicle.

So, I cannot find any State law establishing a "Gun Free Zone", and preemption would prevent any local laws creating such a GFZ.

Have I overlooked something here?

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USNA69 wrote:

Chkultr wrote:

wylde007 wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

unless you could figure out a way to get there w/o going through the GFZ.

Click to expand...

Physically impossible.

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Correct unless you live in the neighborhood behind the rec center and ball fields. You could walk through the park to get to the rec center!

What I don't get is the GFZ! It is a public city street that you are on. The 1000' rule does not make sense to me! Does that mean you can't walk out of your house to your car if you live across the street?
If that is the case then just about EVERYWHERE you drive here you are in violation. Cox has two sections if this is the case. Great Neck and Shorehaven!

Click to expand...

Let me begin by admitting that I am quite new to this Forum and that IANAL. That being said, I have seen several references to the 1000 ft GFZ with regard to schools. Some believe that there is a prohibition against carrying within 1000 ft of a school.

I decided to do some research and see if I could find applicable VA law. Here is an excerpt from the Commonwealth's own web site:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-280

§ 18.2-280. Willfully discharging firearms in public places.

A. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm in any street in a city or town, or in any place of public business or place of public gathering, and such conduct results in bodily injury to another person, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. If such conduct does not result in bodily injury to another person, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

B. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon the buildings and grounds of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in a program or curriculum sponsored by or conducted with permission of a public, private or religious school.

C. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon any public property within 1,000 feet of the property line of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school property he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in lawful hunting.

D. This section shall not apply to any law-enforcement officer in the performance of his official duties nor to any other person whose said willful act is otherwise justifiable or excusable at law in the protection of his life or property, or is otherwise specifically authorized by law.

E. Nothing in this statute shall preclude the Commonwealth from electing to prosecute under any other applicable provision of law instead of this section.

Subparagraph "C." addresses this issue. And it seems quite clear to me that the prohibition is against discharging a weapon within 1000 ft, not simpy carrying. And it seems to apply to public property only.For example, there are many private homes within 1000 feet of schools in which you have every right to carry a firearm and to use it in defense of your family and property.

This makes sense in light of the oft cited permission to CC on school property as long as the weapon remains concealed and the carrier remains in the vehicle.

So, I cannot find any State law establishing a "Gun Free Zone", and preemption would prevent any local laws creating such a GFZ.

Have I overlooked something here?

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GFZ relates to public and private K-12 schools, buildings and grounds. Holding a permit excludes one from the 1000 ft rule but not from the physical property thereof except when picking up or dropping off someone in the driveway/parking lot - a few other exceptions are noted.

Federal law:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

Code of Virginia:
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.1

I recall that you may carry on your own property even within the 1000 ft GFZ but didn't come up with the cite quickly - anybody?

Yata hey

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