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Thread: Hypothetical case to defeat 626.9

  1. #1
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    I was reading another thread, and I got to pondering a hypothetical situation that could potentially be a nail in the coffin of 626.9 (maybe not the final nail, but one of them... how many nails does it take to seal a coffin anyhow?... i digress).

    Let's say I decide to purchase a firearm. I own no vehicle. I own no locking case. The kicker: I live across the street from a school. Further, there is ONLY parking on the street, so even if I had a car, I'd have to take it out while on the public street in a GFSZ.

    How do I get my gun home?

    (In major cities this may actually be a fairly common scenario! No car, no off-street parking, schools everywhere... think about it!)

    The simple answer: buy a locking container.

    This raises two serious legal questions.

    1. Is it legal for the state to require me to purchase a locking container in order to comply with a statute? How about post-incorporation?

    2. Is it a violation of 12025 to walk from the gun store home (i.e. not "directly" to/from my vehicle that I don't have) while carrying in a locked case? If not, is it legal for the state to force me to buy/rent/borrow a motor vehicle in order to comply with 12025?

    Food for thought.
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  2. #2
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    good point. its good for all of us to keep thinking, this idea, i think, is especially good.

    maybe the state can provide us with a car if we show proof that we purchased a handgun (recipt during 10 day waiting period) jk jk.

    make a cardboard car that attaches to you and walk there but look like you are driving?

    things like this make me wish i was a lawyer with lots of extra time and money.



    what if you were homeless and all you owned was 1 pair of pants, 1 pair of shoes, and 1 t-shirt, you get $500 and want to buy a gun, how do you own it without going to jail for opencarrying without a holster? (pretty unrelated to your question, but your Q got me thinking, what if all you owned was a gun and the clothes on your back?)
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    I think it would be quite impossible to fill out all of the CA paperwork to buy a handgun without having some kind of permanent address. (i.e. if you were homeless you couldn't provide that information)

    On the DROS form they ask for address and contact info.

    Also, when you go to pick up your gun now you are supposed to show proof of residence with a utility bill, lease agreement, government issued ID, etc.

    I guess if any of us were to go homeless, make sure you keep your guns.

    On that point, if someone is homeless then I guess you can argue that their person is their home and thus should be able to possess their firearm on their person without any problems.

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    i know of a hot dog stand that has a perminant address listed as "the corner of ____ and ____". you could probably get an ID saying the same thing, or goto a homeless shelter and use their address. Ed peurta (succesfully??) argued that he maintains a CA residence by renting a RV camp spot (or something along those lines), he and his wife travel the US in their motor coach. he doesnt technically have a perminant residence here in CA but can still own firearms here.

    i dont think CA can require that you have a house and a car to own a gun.
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

  5. #5
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    dirtykoala wrote:
    i know of a hot dog stand that has a perminant address listed as "the corner of ____ and ____". you could probably get an ID saying the same thing, or goto a homeless shelter and use their address. Ed peurta (succesfully??) argued that he maintains a CA residence by renting a RV camp spot (or something along those lines), he and his wife travel the US in their motor coach. he doesnt technically have a perminant residence here in CA but can still own firearms here.

    i dont think CA can require that you have a house and a car to own a gun.
    I agree. That would probably work. I can only imagine trying to provide proof of residence to the Gun shop without any residence. (I'm thinking HOMELESS person now)

  6. #6
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    Not only do you need a permanent address... you must be on a utility bill or written lease contract! A homeless person (or even an adult living with someone on a verbal contract) is SOL if they try to get a transfer done.

    Last time I purchased a firearm, I was required to bring in my lease, PG&E bill, and vehicle registration (because my DL showed my former address).

    But that's talking about overturning our silly gun-purchase laws... another topic for another thread.
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    Last week for my latest purchase I only showed my DL, vehicle registration and my DOJ BFSC Instructors card and I was ready to go. And my vehicle is registered to my office address and they were fine with that, only knowing my office and not home address.

  8. #8
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    dirtykoala wrote:
    i know of a hot dog stand that has a perminant address listed as "the corner of ____ and ____". you could probably get an ID saying the same thing, or goto a homeless shelter and use their address. Ed peurta (succesfully??) argued that he maintains a CA residence by renting a RV camp spot (or something along those lines), he and his wife travel the US in their motor coach. he doesnt technically have a perminant residence here in CA but can still own firearms here.

    i dont think CA can require that you have a house and a car to own a gun.
    Here's an idea. Since CA has apparently made it impossible for a homeless person to purchase a firearm, would that not be a violation of that persons RIGHT to keep and bear arms? I'm thinking the argument would bealong the same lines as the one which requires the states to either issue concealed carry licenses (at least technically) or allow open carry.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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  9. #9
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    Sorry for the length but its all the info from the CA DOJ on requirements. i do know of someone using a bicycle license accompanying a CA ID and it worked....

    What is the process for purchasing a firearm in California?
    All firearms purchases and transfers, including private party transactions and sales at gun shows, must be made through a licensed dealer under the Dealer Record of Sale (DROS) process. California imposes a 10-day waiting period before a firearm can be released to a buyer or transferee. A person must be at least 18 years of age to purchase a rifle or shotgun. To buy a handgun, a person must be at least 21 years of age, and either 1) possess an HSC plus successfully complete a safety demonstration with the handgun being purchased or 2) qualify for an HSC exemption.

    As part of the DROS process, the buyer must present "clear evidence of identity and age" which is defined as a valid, non-expired California Driver's License or Identification Card issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles. A military identification accompanied by permanent duty station orders indicating a posting in California is also acceptable.

    If the buyer is not a U.S. Citizen, then he or she is required to demonstrate that he or she is legally within the United States by providing to the firearms dealer with documentation that contains his/her Alien Registration Number or I-94 Number.

    Purchasers of handguns are also required to provide proof of California residency, such as a utility bill, residential lease, property deed, or government-issued identification (other than a drivers license or other DMV-issued identification).

    What documentation is acceptable to demonstrate proof of residency for handgun purchasers?
    Utility bill from within the past three months that bears on its face the individual's name and either of the following:
    The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form
    or

    The individual's residential address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.
    "Utility bill" means a statement of charges for providing service to the individual's residence by either a physical connection (i.e., hard wired telephone connection or cable connection, or a water or gas pipeline connection) or a telemetric connection (i.e., satellite television or radio broadcast service) to a non-mobile, fixed antenna reception device.

    Residential lease that bears the individual's name and either of the following:
    The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form
    or

    The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification card, or change of address attachment thereto.
    "Residential lease" means either of the following:

    A signed and dated contract by which the individual (tenant)agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration for the right to occupy an abode for a specified period of time
    or

    A signed and dated rental agreement by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration at fixed intervals for the right to occupy an abode.
    Property deed the bears the individual's name and either of the following:
    The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form
    or

    The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.
    "Property deed" means either or the following:

    A valid deed of trust for the individual's property of current residence that identifies the individual as a grantee of the trust
    or

    A valid Certificate of title issued by a licensed title insurance company that identifies the individual as a title holder to his or her property of current residence.
    Current, government-issued license, permit, or registration, other than a CA Driver License or CA Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:
    The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form
    or

    The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.
    Examples of acceptable proof of residency:

    Current DMV registrations.
    Electricity, gas, cable bill with purchaser's name onit from within the last 3 months.
    Signed, dated and notarized rental agreement/contract.
    Examples of documents that are NOT acceptable proof of residency:

    Hunting or fishing license (these documents are not issued by the government).
    Cellular phone bill.

  10. #10
    Regular Member wildhawker's Avatar
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    California has no Right to Keep and Bear in its constitution; US2A does not yet apply. You have no grounds for a 2A claim at this time.

    -Brandon

    We-the-People wrote:
    dirtykoala wrote:
    i know of a hot dog stand that has a perminant address listed as "the corner of ____ and ____". you could probably get an ID saying the same thing, or goto a homeless shelter and use their address. Ed peurta (succesfully??) argued that he maintains a CA residence by renting a RV camp spot (or something along those lines), he and his wife travel the US in their motor coach. he doesnt technically have a perminant residence here in CA but can still own firearms here.

    i dont think CA can require that you have a house and a car to own a gun.
    Here's an idea.¬* Since CA has apparently made it impossible for a homeless person to purchase a firearm, would that not be a violation of that persons RIGHT to keep and bear arms?¬* I'm thinking the argument would be¬*along the same lines as the one which requires the states to either issue concealed carry licenses (at least technically) or allow open carry.
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    wildhawker wrote:
    [quote]California has no Right to Keep and Bear in its constitution; US2A does not yet apply. You have no grounds for a 2A claim at this time.

    -Brandon

    You sir are 100% right. Strangely enough I was just reading for my Criminal Procedure class about the amendments that are not incorp YET! wait for McDonald v. Chicago! and hopefully we will have it all!!!!

  12. #12
    Regular Member wildhawker's Avatar
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    I predict that we win GFSZ first outside CA...

    brad9point0 wrote:
    [quote]wildhawker wrote:
    California has no Right to Keep and Bear in its constitution; US2A does not yet apply. You have no grounds for a 2A claim at this time.

    -Brandon

    You sir are 100% right. Strangely enough I was just reading for my Criminal Procedure class about the amendments that are not incorp YET! wait for McDonald v. Chicago! and hopefully we will have it all!!!!
    Brandon Combs
    Secretary, Calguns Foundation
    Member, CRPA Board of Directors

    Join me in making regular monthly tax-deductible donations to the Calguns Foundation and help us advance gun rights in California today!

    Unless explicitly stated otherwise, all comments are my own and not the approved position of any organization, nor should they be considered legal advice.

  13. #13
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Incorporation first, then we can follow WI's footsteps. They have a state RKBA and are fighting their own GFSZ law.

    wildhawker wrote:
    I predict that we win GFSZ first outside CA...

    brad9point0 wrote:
    wildhawker wrote:
    California has no Right to Keep and Bear in its constitution; US2A does not yet apply. You have no grounds for a 2A claim at this time.

    -Brandon

    You sir are 100% right. Strangely enough I was just reading for my Criminal Procedure class about the amendments that are not incorp YET! wait for McDonald v. Chicago! and hopefully we will have it all!!!
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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