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Thread: Know your CA Firearm Laws

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    As a CA gun owner, and particularly if you areplanning or participating in UOC. Thenyou really need to readand have a very good understandingofthe CA StateFirearm Laws/Penal Codes. Here'san online link.

    http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf


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    OR you can skip the bull and read the Calguns Wiki.

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    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    The DOJ doc is an OK start, but they leave a lot of important unanswered questions. I sometimes wonder if it is intentional.

    pullnshoot25, you didn't offer a link:

    http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Main_Page

    http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...sked_Questions

    ETA and of course check here for info specific to open carry: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/36464.html

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    I googled the Calgun Wiki & found it.Though I see no references to exact laws thereon on matters of my concern. So thanks, but I would prefer to read the law straight from its source and notread someones interpretation of what they believethe lawsays.

    I have caught flackon what I've interpretedconcerning thetransportation of concealable firearms (handguns)in a vehicle. Is there a currentCA law that clearly and specifically states that a person can transport an unloaded handgunopenlyin the passenger area of a vehicle outside of a locked case. If there is such a law please cite. As from what I am understanding from the CA DOJ Penal Codesis that to lawfully transport a handgunina vehicleit needs to be withina locked container or inthe vehicles trunk. PC Section 12025fstates jargon aboutfirearms in a belt holster, yet later a following code appears to nullify such by stating that Section 12025 does not apply to or affect any of the following (see copied excerpts below). Also, unless under certain conditions (IE: My residence, at a legal hunting area...) from what I understand, ifI openly carry my unloaded handgun to and frommy vehicle without it being within a locked container.I would be in violation of the law as it states"when the firearm is carried by the person to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose, the firearm must be contained in a locked container while being physically carried.



    NOTE: A firearm carried openly in a belt holster is not considered "concealed" as it applies to the above prohibition. (Penal Code § 12025(f).)



    Section 12025 does not apply to or affect any of the following:



    • Any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited from owning or possessing firearms pursuant to Penal Code sections 12021 or 12021.1 or section 8100 or 8101 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, may carry, either openly or concealed, anywhere within his or her place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by him or her any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person. A permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry is not required under these circumstances. (Penal Code § 12026.)



    The transportation or carrying of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person by any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Penal Code Sections 12021 or 12021.1 or Welfare and Institutions Code sections 8100 or 8103, provided that the following applies:



    - the firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment, and; - when the firearm is carried by the person to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose, the firearm must be contained in a locked container while being physically carried. (Penal Code § 12026.1.)



    Penal Code Section 12025 does not apply to or affect the lawful transportation or possession of a firearm under specific circumstances, including, but not limited to, the following:



    • The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the firearm in order to complywith Article 1 (commencing with section 2080) of Chapter 4 of Division 3 of the Civil Code as it pertains to that firearm and if that firearm is being transported to a law enforcement agency, the person gives prior notice to the law enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to the law enforcement agency. (Penal Code § 12026.2(a)(17).)



    • The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the firearm, and is transporting it to a law enforcement agency for disposition according to law, if he or she gives prior notice to the lawenforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to the law enforcement agency for disposition according to law. Firearms must be transported unloaded and in a locked container and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations, as necessary. (Penal Code §§ 12026.2(a)(17), (18) and (b).)



    • The carrying of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person by a person who is authorized to carry that weapon in a concealed manner pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with section 12050) of the Penal Code.



    • Members of any club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets upon established target ranges, whether public or private, while the members are using concealable firearms upon the target ranges.



    • Authorized peace officers, retired peace officers, and retired federal officers or agents, as defined in Penal Code sections 830.1, 830.2, 830.5, 12027(a) and 12031(b).



    • Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing, or while going to or returning from such hunting or fishing expeditions.



    • The possession or transportation of unloaded pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person as merchandise by a person who is licensed in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms.



    • The carrying of unloaded pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person by duly authorized military or civil organizations while parading, or the members thereof when going to and from the places of meeting of their respective organizations.



    • Guards or messengers of common carriers, banks, and other financial institutions while actually employed in and about the shipment, transportation, or delivery of any money, treasure, bullion, bonds, or other thing of value within this state.



    • Transportation of unloaded firearms by a person operating a licensed common carrier or an authorized agent or employee thereof when transported in conformance with applicable federal law.



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    If you are going to copy and paste, would you mind eliminating a lot of the empty spaces?

    I'm old and my trigger finger gets tired with all of the scrolling.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    dukbukhunt wrote:
    I have caught flackon what I've interpretedconcerning thetransportation of concealable firearms (handguns)in a vehicle. Is there a currentCA law that clearly and specifically states that a person can transport an unloaded handgunopenlyin the passenger area of a vehicle outside of a locked case. If there is such a law please cite.
    There is no law saying that anything is legal. There are only laws saying that certain things are illegal.

    We cannot cite a specific PC stating that it is legal to Open Carry, we also cannot cite a specific PC stating that it is legal to walk bafefoot on a public beach, or wear a plaid flannel shirt to the mall.

    CA PC 12025 deals specifically with CONCEALED firearms. The provision for carrying a firearm in a locked case deals specifically with CONCEALED firearms. The restriction on CONCEALED carry do not apply if the firearm in question IS NOT CONCEALED.

    CA PC 626.9 deals specifically with transporting a firearm within 1,000 feet of K-12 School property, i.e. a"school zone". This is an area where open carry is generally illegal.

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    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    dukbukhunt wrote:
    I googled the Calgun Wiki & found it.Though I see no references to exact laws thereon on matters of my concern. So thanks, but I would prefer to read the law straight from its source and notread someones interpretation of what they believethe lawsays.
    The Penal Code is only part of the law. Much of what is important is determined by case law. You will not find that in the PC, nor on the DOJ's website. That is why I said it is only a start.

    ETA: Actually, having just read some of the DOJ drivel, I'm going to correct my statement. The DOJ is a BAD place to get legal information. I say that because they are only stating what they want you to do, not what is legal or not. The quotes you post demonstrate this. They mislead one to believe that the ONLY way to transport is in a locked case. This is true if you conceal, and if you are in a school zone, but otherwise it is not.


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    dukbukhunt wrote:
    I have caught flackon what I've interpretedconcerning thetransportation of concealable firearms (handguns)in a vehicle. Is there a currentCA law that clearly and specifically states that a person can transport an unloaded handgunopenlyin the passenger area of a vehicle outside of a locked case. If there is such a law please cite. As from what I am understanding from the CA DOJ Penal Codesis that to lawfully transport a handgunina vehicleit needs to be withina locked container or inthe vehicles trunk. PC Section 12025fstates jargon aboutfirearms in a belt holster, yet later a following code appears to nullify such by stating that Section 12025 does not apply to or affect any of the following (see copied excerpts below). Also, unless under certain conditions (IE: My residence, at a legal hunting area...) from what I understand, ifI openly carry my unloaded handgun to and frommy vehicle without it being within a locked container.I would be in violation of the law as it states"when the firearm is carried by the person to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose, the firearm must be contained in a locked container while being physically carried.

    I really think you should read this. Yes, it includes interpretation, but it answers many of your questions, and points you to the sources if you want to view them.



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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Duk, it sounds like you are looking at the end and trying to work your way towards the begining. Penal Code general doesn't work like that.

    Your looking for a statute that specifically states that its legal to have an unloaded and unconcealed handgun in your vehicle.

    The applicable penal codes:

    Concealable Weapons: 12025. This is where you will find that it is generally illegal to conceal. 12025 provides an example of one instance where the law is clearly spelled out that 'open carry in a belt holster' is not concealed. Therefore Open Carry = Not Concealed.

    Loaded Weapons: 12031. This is where you will find that it is generally illegal to have a gun loaded.

    Now you are legally covered with regard to UOC. Now you just need to avoid the potential pitfalls. There are two.

    Public Buildings: 171b. The most common exemption here is CCW License. There is no locked container exemption. Essentially avoid governmental offices completely while OC.

    Gun Free School Zones: 626.9. The common exemptions here are CCW and transporting in a locked container.



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    Is there a current CA law that clearly and specifically states that a person can transport an unloaded handgun openly in the passenger area of a vehicle outside of a locked case.
    Laws tell you what you cannot do, not what you can do.

    The California laws (that I am aware of) covering this stuff are:

    12025
    12026
    12031
    626.9

    12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
    he or she does any of the following:
    (1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
    control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
    of being concealed upon the person.
    (2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
    or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
    (3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he
    or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
    of being concealed upon the person.
    So that makes it illegal to carry a concealed [handgun].

    Then 12026 makes 12025 not apply to several different people, CCW holders included.

    Then 12026.1 makes an exemption to 12025:

    (1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
    vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
    the utility or glove compartment.
    But notice that that is an exemption to 12025. If you want to have a concealed weapon, you are not a police officer, or ccw holder (or any of the other exempt people in 12026) then you can if you have it in a locked container in the vehicle.

    But if you want to have an unconcealed weapon (12025 does not apply here, as that is for a concealed weapon)

    The only laws on unconcealed weapons (and they are not really on unconcealed weapons per-se) are:

    626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
    (b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written permission of the school district superintendent, his or her designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).
    This says no firearms within 1000 feet of a school. Again, there are exceptions, which I am not going to list, but a CCW is one.

    12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.
    Note that 12031 applies to LOADED firearms.

    So we have a law that says you cannot have a concealed firearm (12025), and you cannot have a loaded firearm (12031), and you cannot have a firearm within 1000' of a school (626.9).

    There is nothing saying you cannot have an unloaded firearm, on your dashboard (or your hip for that matter), while driving a vehicle, and not within 1000' of a school.

    That being said. You are probably best off having your firearm locked in a container of some sort while driving, as it is very easy to be within 1000' of a school without knowing it.

    Also note there is no exception to 12031 about a locked container. So a loaded firearm in a locked container would still violate 12031.

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    I think I see where you are getting tripped up here.

    California law seems to have a couple of designations for firearms.

    1. Concealed Firearm
    2. Firearm

    There is nothing I have seen about "Unconcealed Firearms".

    You are looking at 12025, which is a law specifically about concealed firearms. So anything in that section is only applicable to a concealed firearm.

    from what I understand, if I openly carry my unloaded handgun to and from my vehicle without it being within a locked container. I would be in violation of the law as it states "when the firearm is carried by the person to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose, the firearm must be contained in a locked container while being physically carried.
    You are getting this from 12026.1(2). That is an exception to 12025, which is about concealed firearms. 12025 applies only to concealed firearms, not unconcealed.

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    Rusty wrote:
    I think I see where you are getting tripped up here.

    California law seems to have a couple of designations for firearms.

    1. Concealed Firearm
    2. Firearm

    There is nothing I have seen about "Unconcealed Firearms".

    You are looking at 12025, which is a law specifically about concealed firearms. So anything in that section is only applicable to a concealed firearm.

    from what I understand, if I openly carry my unloaded handgun to and from my vehicle without it being within a locked container. I would be in violation of the law as it states "when the firearm is carried by the person to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose, the firearm must be contained in a locked container while being physically carried.
    You are getting this from 12026.1(2). That is an exception to 12025, which is about concealed firearms. 12025 applies only to concealed firearms, not unconcealed.
    If you want to carry concealed to and from your vehicle, you need either a concealed weaponpermit or a locked container. You can carry UOC anywhere that its not prohibited, like a GFSZ or a secure areain an airport, or ingov building.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The rights existence is all the reason he needs.

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    I have found another good explanation to my question(s). Thanks to most of ya'llfor the info.

    Here's CA Open Carry's Flyer which also explains things regarding PC 12025 & PC 12026, etc more clearly.

    http://www.californiaopencarry.org/C...aOpenCarry.pdf

    In part the flyer explains that parts of PC 12026that I have been referring to andsaid parts of PC 12026 can be commonly misinterpreted. That these sections are restrictions, as I have been interpreting them as such. That being, restrictions, on how to carry a firearm that falls under the definition ofconcealable. Excerpts particular to my question are copied & pasted as follows:

    12026.1 and 12026.2 are almost always misinterpreted, and in many ways. The most common misinterpretation is that these sections are restrictions. They are not. They are exemptions to 12025. You cannot be charged with 12026.x, only 12025. When you transport your firearms concealed (openly is legal) you must use one of the 12026.x exemptions.

    The second common mistake is confusing or combining 12026.1 and 12026.2. 12026.1 simply states that 12025 does not apply when transporting a handgun in a motor vehicle’s trunk, or in a locked container in or to/from a motor vehicle.
    There are no location or deviation restrictions in 12026.1. 12026.2 is another (separate) list of exemptions to 12025, all but one of which (motion picture) are transporting exemptions. Unlike 12026.1, 12026.2 is not specific to motor vehicles. It can therefore be applied to all other forms of transportation, e.g., walking,bicycling, public transportation. Unlike 12026.1, 12026.2 does limit the transport exemptions from any unnecessary deviations.




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    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    dukbukhunt wrote:
    I have found another good explanation to my question(s). Thanks to most of ya'llfor the info.

    Here's CA Open Carry's Flyer which also explains things regarding PC 12025 & PC 12026, etc more clearly.
    That document, and much more good information is linked in this thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/36464.html

    Most of the info you'll need can be found there. I highly recommend taking a look.


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    MudCamper wrote:
    dukbukhunt wrote:
    I have found another good explanation to my question(s). Thanks to most of ya'llfor the info.

    Here's CA Open Carry's Flyer which also explains things regarding PC 12025 & PC 12026, etc more clearly.
    That document, and much more good information is linked in this thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/36464.html

    Most of the info you'll need can be found there. I highly recommend taking a look.
    Holy bajeebers...this guy has been grousing about the same stuff for days. Pointed to the answer, the noobie thread, and even the very site he 'found'

    Then he comes back to school us?!?



    I'm normally pretty patient about this sort of thing...for some reason this one got my dander up...

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    yeah, no ****.

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    There is more up to date info at this site. the CFL2007 is out dated. CFL2008 is available at this site:

    http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/index.php

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