unloaded gun in locked container

Hawaii FiveO · Feb 8, 2010

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Ok, I'm driving along when I'm lighted up for minor vehicle infraction. As the LEO goes to the right side of the car, he explains reason for stop. He notices container on seat next to me. Can he ask what's in it? Do I have to answer? If I say it's an unloaded gun in a locked container can he ask to see it to make sure it's unloaded?

Just curious if I'm obligated to answer if he asks.

(I'm aware that I have to divulge contents IFLEO asks if I have any drugs, guns, weapons, etc in my car) I've never been asked as I don't fit the BG profile.

In any case I won't have to worry about being arrested or cited for illegal activity as I would never drive with 1. Loaded gun or 2. Concealed in glove box, etc etc.

CA_Libertarian · Feb 8, 2010

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Hawaii FiveO wrote:

Ok, I'm driving along when I'm lighted up for minor vehicle infraction. As the LEO goes to the right side of the car, he explains reason for stop. He notices container on seat next to me. Can he ask what's in it? Do I have to answer? If I say it's an unloaded gun in a locked container can he ask to see it to make sure it's unloaded?

Yes, (s)he can ask. No, you have no obligation - legal or moral - to answer (see the 5th amendment). If you tell the officer you have a firearm and are in a place where loaded firearms are prohibited, you may be arrested for refusing to allow "examination" of the weapon (see 12031(e)).

Just curious if I'm obligated to answer if he asks.

(I'm aware that I have to divulge contents IFLEO asks if I have any drugs, guns, weapons, etc in my car) I've never been asked as I don't fit the BG profile.

I'm not aware of any statute or case law that nullifies the 5th Amendment. If asked, either reply nuetrally, or just smile and ask if you're free to go - you have things to see and people to do. If you do have any illegal items, you'd be incriminating yourself if you answer. You're either admitting guilt or possibly "obstructing" if you lie. On your next traffic stop, try the silent treatment, just smile and sign your ticket.

In any case I won't have to worry about being arrested or cited for illegal activity as I would never drive with 1. Loaded gun or 2. Concealed in glove box, etc etc.

N6ATF · Feb 8, 2010

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I keep a roll of duct tape in my glove box.

Guess why?

dirtykoala · Feb 8, 2010

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CA_Libertarian wrote:

Hawaii FiveO wrote:

Ok, I'm driving along when I'm lighted up for minor vehicle infraction. As the LEO goes to the right side of the car, he explains reason for stop. He notices container on seat next to me. Can he ask what's in it? Do I have to answer? If I say it's an unloaded gun in a locked container can he ask to see it to make sure it's unloaded?

Yes, (s)he can ask. No, you have no obligation - legal or moral - to answer (see the 5th amendment). If you tell the officer you have a firearm and are in a place where loaded firearms are prohibited, you may be arrested for refusing to allow "examination" of the weapon (see 12031(e)).

Just curious if I'm obligated to answer if he asks.

(I'm aware that I have to divulge contents IFLEO asks if I have any drugs, guns, weapons, etc in my car) I've never been asked as I don't fit the BG profile.

I'm not aware of any statute or case law that nullifies the 5th Amendment. If asked, either reply nuetrally, or just smile and ask if you're free to go - you have things to see and people to do. If you do have any illegal items, you'd be incriminating yourself if you answer. You're either admitting guilt or possibly "obstructing" if you lie. On your next traffic stop, try the silent treatment, just smile and sign your ticket.

In any case I won't have to worry about being arrested or cited for illegal activity as I would never drive with 1. Loaded gun or 2. Concealed in glove box, etc etc.

Click to expand...

i thought i remembered reading that if a cop can see that you have case that is obviously a gun case, they can assume theresa gun in it.

if you had the below bag next to you, couldnt a cop reasonably assume you have a gun in it and ask to do a 12031 e check?

wewd · Feb 8, 2010

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If they ask what's in the case, tell them it's private property. If they insist, tell them it's none and their damn business and if they want to see what's inside, demand they get a search warrant. Okay, maybe not in such harsh terms (unless they deserve it), but you get the idea.

Unless it's obviously a gun case (GLOCK stamped on the side) they should have no valid reason to suspect it may contain a firearm, and therefore no reason to perform an (e) check. I transport in a non-black Pelican case, which could contain anything of value worth protecting, but only I know what's really inside.

dirtykoala · Feb 8, 2010

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wewd wrote:

If they ask what's in the case, tell them it's private property. If they insist, tell them it's none and their damn business and if they want to see what's inside, demand they get a search warrant. Okay, maybe not in such harsh terms (unless they deserve it), but you get the idea.

Unless it's obviously a gun case (GLOCK stamped on the side) they should have no valid reason to suspect it may contain a firearm, and therefore no reason to perform an (e) check. I transport in a non-black Pelican case, which could contain anything of value worth protecting, but only I know what's really inside.

i also know now too... but i wont tell.

dangers of talking to a cop harshly.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOU8GIRUd_g

CA_Libertarian · Feb 8, 2010

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dirtykoala wrote:

i thought i remembered reading that if a cop can see that you have case that is obviously a gun case, they can assume theresa gun in it.

It's the whole "reasonable suspicion" thing. That will be decided by the judge/jury in your individual case. And I'm willing to bet that at least 90% of the time the cop would get the trial judge/jury to take his side no matter what kind of case you have.

It's only going to trial if he actually finds a gun, so the jury is going to say to themselves, "well he ended up being right about a gun being there, so he must have been reasonable in suspecting it was there."

Gundude · Feb 8, 2010

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Hawaii FiveO wrote:

Ok, I'm driving along when I'm lighted up for minor vehicle infraction. As the LEO goes to the right side of the car, he explains reason for stop. He notices container on seat next to me. Can he ask what's in it? Do I have to answer? If I say it's an unloaded gun in a locked container can he ask to see it to make sure it's unloaded?

Just curious if I'm obligated to answer if he asks.

(I'm aware that I have to divulge contents IFLEO asks if I have any drugs, guns, weapons, etc in my car) I've never been asked as I don't fit the BG profile.

In any case I won't have to worry about being arrested or cited for illegal activity as I would never drive with 1. Loaded gun or 2. Concealed in glove box, etc etc.

He can ask, you don't have to tell him. You have the right to remain silent.

You can say, "there is nothing illegal in my car, but I don't consent to a search." They can bring out a drug sniffing dog. If the dog alerts, then they have probable cause to search.

I would choose the first considering its a traffic stop. Just hand him your license, registration and proof of insurance.

dirtykoala · Feb 8, 2010

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i kind of want to get this for my wife for when shes at school... are these bags RAS?

N6ATF · Feb 8, 2010

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Am I hallucinating or do these cases have gun imprints on the sides?

We-the-People · Feb 8, 2010

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dirtykoala wrote:

i kind of want to get this for my wife for when shes at school... are these bags RAS?

Those bags (except for the color) look like the PERFECT book bag for me to take to college.

MudCamper · Feb 9, 2010

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Just do the smart and practical thing, and cover your gun cases and gun stuff with a jacket or otherwise put it out of public view, and then their are no worries about what is or is not RAS, because anything out of view is definitely not.

Statkowski · Feb 9, 2010

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Just because you have a Glock case, or S&W case, or Hi-Point cardboard container on your front seat doesn't necessarily mean the contents of said container are what one thinks they are. For all anyone knows, you could be taking your grocery receipts out for a drive.

poothrowingape · Feb 9, 2010

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Statkowski wrote:

....or Hi-Point cardboard container...

wow even their cases areterrible lol

bigtoe416 · Feb 9, 2010

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Statkowski wrote:

Just because you have a Glock case, or S&W case, or Hi-Point cardboard container on your front seat doesn't necessarily mean the contents of said container are what one thinks they are. For all anyone knows, you could be taking your grocery receipts out for a drive.

+1 to the mighty Statkowski. My answer if a cop asked me such a thing would be, "My! That is such a private and invasive question!" Shame him into blushing. If that didn't work (which it probably wouldn't since my acting sucks) I'd tell him I have "lawful, personal property" in my car. Having a glock case or wearing a t-shirt that says, "I have a gun" doesn't equate to RAS, although I suspect CA_Libertarian is correct about his jury assessment. Nevertheless, I'd never grant a police officer to search anything.

Gundude · Feb 9, 2010

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What part of "don't talk to the police" don't you understand? Once again....watch this link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

We-the-People · Feb 9, 2010

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CRIPE. Those bags are 190 Euro or $235 USD!!!!!

A bit too much for me to be spending to make a statement. That's a lot of ammo I could buy!

dirtykoala · Feb 9, 2010

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We-the-People wrote:

CRIPE. Those bags are 190 Euro or $235 USD!!!!!

A bit too much for me to be spending to make a statement. That's a lot of ammo I could buy!

is it just me or is that a normal price to pay for a handbag for your wife?

Edward Peruta · Feb 9, 2010

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Sound familar?

Man Charged With Posting Threat On Newspaper Website
The Hartford Courant

12:46 PM EST, February 9, 2010

TORRINGTON —

A 26-year-old man is accused of posting an anonymous threatening comment about a Torrington police officer on The Register-Citizen newspaper's website last month.

Brian E. Couse, of Stanfordville, N.Y., turned himself in to police, who charged him with second-degree breach peace on Tuesday. Couse was released on $2,500 bail and is due in Bantam Superior Court on Feb. 22.

An employee at the Register-Citizen called officers on Jan. 20 after noticing the threat in the comment section beneath an online article. The article was police-related, Lt. Michael Emanuel said, but he declined to comment on what the story was about.

Police launched an investigation and later executed a search warrant, which revealed the Internet protocol address and identity of the anonymous blogger.

Couse sent the message from a work computer in New York, Emanuel said. He declined to say where Couse worked but said that he has been fired from the job.

The comment was "a threat of physical violence against an active police officer," Emanuel said.

"Simply because a person posts comments in an anonymous fashion does not give them the right to threaten or cause fear in people or their families," he said in a statement.

Calls to the Register-Citizen were not immediately returned.

— Jenna Carlesso

Rugerp345 · Feb 9, 2010

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Back before handgun permits were cool in Texas (early 1990's) I used to work late night driving around town to check on employees at various posts. I kept my Taurus 92 in the passenger seat in a briefcase with the lid open for fast access.

If "lighted up", I could simply close the lid and spin the combination codes to lock it. Cop needs a search warrant or PC to open a locked container. Even if he calls K9 the dog won't alert on a handgun, so no PC .

(It is good practice not to keep your weed in that same case, else the dog will alert and it'll be opened with PC.)

unloaded gun in locked container

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