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Thread: OC article in HuffingtonPost

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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-h..._b_454312.html

    What would your reaction be if you and your kids walked into the local Starbucks and, while contemplating the choice between a latte and a mocha cappuccino, you noticed several fellow customers had semi-automatic pistols and ammunition magazines hanging from their hips?
    This scenario has become more than a flight of imagination. In several communities in California, and elsewhere, it has become reality.
    Welcome to the "open carry" movement, an effort by "gun rights" extremists to foist their interpretation of the Second Amendment on the rest of us by openly carrying handguns in public places. While virtually all states have at least some minimal restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons, few states do anything to regulate the "open carry" of firearms.
    Particularly in the Bay Area in Northern California, "open carry" adherents have been gathering in Starbucks and other coffee shops and restaurants -- their semi-automatic pistols and revolvers in plain view -- apparently to make an ideological statement.
    The sight of such gun-toters in Starbucks reminds us of the incidents last summer, when anti-Obama protestors appeared at political events and "town hall meetings" with handguns and assault rifles openly strapped to their bodies -- including events attended by President Obama himself.
    The "open carry" folks view this as "normalizing" their self-defined "right" to carry guns with them at all times wherever they please, regardless of its impact on public safety. But what about the rights of everyone else who wishes to be free from lethal weapons in public places, except for trained law enforcement?
    Surveys show that the presence of more guns in a community does not make people safer, or feel safer; indeed, it has the opposite effect. Studies show that the more guns there are, the more gun violence there is in that location. In addition, 80 percent of those who don't own guns say they would feel less safe if more people in their community acquired guns; only eight percent would feel safer. Even among gun owners, roughly equal proportions would feel less safe if more people had guns versus those who would feel more safe.
    Take the reaction of one coffee shop customer in San Ramon, California when faced with a group of pistol packers: "I'm scared. I'm getting out of here. They say they want to make a statement. What's wrong with a T-shirt?"
    The "open carry" gatherings provoked an immediate reaction from Californians who were appalled that coffee shops and restaurants would allow guns on their premises. At least two national chains have responded responsibly.
    For example, Peet's Tea & Coffee stated that its policy "is not to allow customers carrying firearms in our stores" unless they are uniformed law enforcement officers. It also indicated that it would post a notification of that policy in all its stores and would call the local police for assistance should a customer display a firearm in the future.
    After being alerted by local chapters of the Brady Campaign about a scheduled "open carry" meeting at one its Northern California stores, California Pizza Kitchen issued a statement that it "does not allow guests other than uniformed officers to display firearms in our restaurants" because of its concern "that the open display of firearms would be particularly disturbing to children and their parents."
    But now we come to Starbucks. When asked about the company's policy on the "open carry" of firearms in its stores, its Customer Relations Department responded to the Brady Campaign's California chapters that "Starbucks does not have a corporate policy regarding customers and weapons; we defer to federal, state and local laws and regulations regarding this issue."
    Here's the problem with that answer: generally speaking - and certainly in California - businesses have the right to bar guns on their premises. It is their property and, just as they can prohibit entry by people with bare feet, they can do the same for people with guns.
    Despite its response, Starbucks clearly does have a policy and it is one that should be deeply disturbing to the vast majority of its customers.
    Starbucks has apparently chosen to allow civilians to carry semi-automatic pistols and possibly even assault weapons into its stores.
    Such a policy is disturbing to law enforcement officials as well as Starbucks patrons. As a San Mateo County Sheriff's Lieutenant put it, "Open carry advocates create a potentially very dangerous situation," because when police respond to a "man with a gun" call, they have no idea what the intentions of the gun carrier are and "the result could be deadly."
    If a mistake in judgment or perception results in a shooting at a Starbucks, will the company still have no "corporate policy regarding customers and weapons"?
    This is no idle consideration. Just this past September, at a picnic hosted by "open carry" activists at a Michigan state park, a gun activist was charged with reckless use of a firearm after he unintentionally fired his semi-automatic handgun in a parking lot. Then there was the California "open carry" activist in December who was arrested for carrying his .357 magnum revolver near a school, complaining, "I just can't see what I did wrong."
    Even more disturbing was the man - "of high interest to the FBI because of his alignment with violent demonstrators at abortion clinics" - who was arrested for possession of a semi-automatic handgun which he was carrying openly outside a North Carolina abortion clinic last October.
    As these and other incidents show, the "open carry" movement clearly has implications beyond Starbucks. It is part of a broader campaign, led by the National Rifle Association, to force guns into every corner of American society by "normalizing" the carrying of guns in public places, openly and concealed.
    The gun pushers want an America where there is nowhere that you and your family can go to be free from guns.
    As just one example, the same lawyer who won the U.S. Supreme Court case two years ago which declared a Second Amendment right to have a gun in your home for self defense, has filed a new lawsuit seeking to force localities to allow civilians to carry guns on the streets.
    The "open" carrying of guns is just the visible tip of the "guns everywhere" iceberg. The gun lobby's clout in state legislatures has forced consideration of dangerous proposals to allow people to legally carry concealed weapons into bars, churches, workplace parking lots, airports, parks, college campuses and elsewhere.
    While most states do not require any permit, license or training of any kind to carry a semi-automatic pistol openly, the NRA assures us that those who have permits to carry concealed weapons are all "law-abiding citizens" whose gun-toting behavior protects the rest of us. Since May, 2007, however, these "law-abiding citizens" have killed at least 117 people, including nine law enforcement officers. During that same period, they have committed eleven mass shootings.
    So, Starbucks, what will it be? Like Peets Tea & Coffee, will you do the socially responsible thing and stand up for the rights of families and children to be free from guns when they visit your coffee shops?
    Or will you take the chance that there will be more than just shots of espresso being served up in your stores?


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    Mr. Helmke.....

    YOU LIE!!!!!

    What a load of bovine excrement.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Yep OCers are really bad for business and that was only 1/4 of the total that day.



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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I wonder if the people on the other side of the fence view the things we espouse, and the articles we laud in the media, as being as completely, utterly, packed full of mindless drivel as we perceive this to be. Who's to say we don't a'times exaggerate as much as they do? Granted, I rarely find civil discussions on their part in lieu of emotional responses, but still.

    Don't get me wrong, I think that article is nothing more than mouth-foaming fear-mongering to push an anti-gun agenda, but I often wonder about philisophical quandaries like that. Don't mind me.
    The Dogs of War are nothing compared to the Cats

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    because when police respond to a "man with a gun" call, they have no idea what the intentions of the gun carrier are and "the result could be deadly."

    That's the Real Deal scare tactic that the author is trying to put over on everyone here. He wants you to subconsciously read that the cops can and sometimes will shoot you dead for OC (due to a misunderstanding)

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    Regular Member NY2AZ's Avatar
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    But what about the rights of everyone else who wishes to be free from lethal weapons in public places, except for trained law enforcement?????????

    Sorry, there is no such right. Your argmument is invalidated
    If ever you find yourself in a situation where you can't be safe, be violent!

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    All I can say after reading the comments, all 6 pages of them, is: LOL, PWNED!

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    JBURGII wrote:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-h..._b_454312.html


    This is no idle consideration. Just this past September, at a picnic hosted by "open carry" activists at a Michigan state park, a gun activist was charged with reckless use of a firearm after he unintentionally fired his semi-automatic handgun in a parking lot. Then there was the California "open carry" activist in December who was arrested for carrying his .357 magnum revolver near a school, complaining, "I just can't see what I did wrong."
    Even more disturbing was the man - "of high interest to the FBI because of his alignment with violent demonstrators at abortion clinics" - who was arrested for possession of a semi-automatic handgun which he was carrying openly outside a North Carolina abortion clinic last October.
    Theremight bea smart anti out there reading HOCIAHDO (Handgun Open Carry In A Holster Dot ORG.

    All three of these cases were discussed in the forum. Then again, there was no mention of A.... in LA
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    JBURGII wrote:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-h..._b_454312.html

    w, the "open carry" movement clearly has implications beyond Starbucks. It is part of a broader campaign, led by the National Rifle Association, to force guns into every corner of American society by "normalizing" the carrying of guns in public places, openly and concealed.
    Well, at least we can confirm that HOCIAHDO is NOT an NRA tool.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Liberal bullsh*t, about things they have been programmed to believe.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I still don't know what an assault rifle is... :quirky
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

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    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    protias wrote:
    I still don't know what an assault rifle is... :quirky
    An assault rifle is a select fire shoulder fired weapon system using a removable box magazine and firing an intermediate cartridge.

    The origin of the term was the German STG-44/MP-44(STORM RIFLE!)which was was fully automatic and used a shortened rifle cartridge in order to make automatic fire more controlable.

    the most popular assault rifle in the world, the AK-47 was very similar in implementation, with the Red Army using the 7.62x39(the original battle rifle calibre was 7.62x54R)

    Basically the weapon system needs to be able to use removable magazines and be capable of select fire to be an assault rifle.





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    ComradeV wrote:
    protias wrote:
    I still don't know what an assault rifle is... :quirky
    An assault rifle is a select fire shoulder fired weapon system using a removable box magazine and firing an intermediate cartridge.

    The origin of the term was the German STG-44/MP-44(STORM RIFLE!)which was was fully automatic and used a shortened rifle cartridge in order to make automatic fire more controlable.

    the most popular assault rifle in the world, the AK-47 was very similar in implementation, with the Red Army using the 7.62x39(the original battle rifle calibre was 7.62x54R)

    Basically the weapon system needs to be able to use removable magazines and be capable of select fire to be an assault rifle.



    That's the point I'm trying to make. Very few people own a rifle that is select fire. The majority out there are semi-auto only. So the very term they are using is false the majority of the time.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Helmke appears to want to make open carry a major theme of the Brady Campaign, having failed to get any traction on any of their other initiatives.

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    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    Thankfully, he will most likely fail, because he is after all very full of fail, and most people in America know WIN when they see it, which they would see if they have seen normal people carry handguns in holsters.

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    So who's writing equally "persuasive" counter-articles (i.e., pro-gun) that will reach as many people/have as much effect onpublic perception as the Brady Bunch does (or seems to), be it addressing this currently hot "Starbucks & Guns"issue or others that come up (or have)?

    I know "public perception" is so easly manipulated since most sheeple arenaive, shallow, fickle, ignorant and therefore so easily swayed -- OR simply confirmed in their anti-gun beliefs by such Brady BS subjective rhetoric --so where is the pro-gun "Brady equivalent" (if you will) for just-as-persuasive pro-gun counterpoints?

    Yeah, we have the NRA, GOA and such, but which seems either toreach more of the general public and/or is the more relevent re: impacting public (sheeple) opinion? It seems Brady canpublically statelies like this with complete impunity, doesn't it? Yet those lies DO impact people, especially the fence-sitters (neither anti-gun nor pro-gun), possibly tipping them over to the anti-gun side.

    Ican even see this eventually making Starbucks cave-in and change their policy down the road due to all this Brady-type hysterical, panderingand negavitive publicity (for Starbucks). After all, lots of liberal yuppie sheeplepatronize them, right? So how about a whole lot of limp-wristed liberal "metrosexuals" complaining to Starbucks management...and inlots more numbers than pro-gun people thanking Starbucks for their policies? What then?

    Doesn't Bradyhave more public visibility to publicize that BS, yet pro-gunners do not? Dosn't Brady reach/influence more of the general public (sheeple) that any of the pro-gun groups, meaning the NRA/GOS and such?

    It seems like the Brady people can write whatever they want, sway a whole lot of sheeple, yet there is no equally "powerful" counter source to rebut them. And there is no recourseagainst them for stating lies. I guess it's protected free speech, true or not?

    I don't know...just asking...

    -- John D.



    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    compmanio365 wrote:
    All I can say after reading the comments, all 6 pages of them, is: LOL, PWNED!
    Agree.

    I found the comments more interesting than the article.

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    Not knocking the OP at all- Just a general thought on The Huffington Post
    Where the heck did they come from? Seems like one second they were fringe conspiracy theory articles that fit well in The Onion. The next second- articles are being sited by MSM, forums everywhere, and I've even seen their employees on television. Wen did The Huffington Post become a reliable news outlet? I missed that one is all I'm saying. Personally, I just don't know. I think we can all judge this writers intent, none the less.

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    We HEREknow better -- as do most conservatives -- but the majority of people?

    I don't give the average personany credit at all re: their ability (or desire) to sort out the facts.

    Whatever, I think they believe everything the Brady Bunch puts out as fact.

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Arianna Huffington is a lady who talks like the wife in the old "Green Acres" TV series and who has even less of a grio on reality. I think she called herself a "conservative" until she found out more people would pay attention to her if she became a smart-mouth "liberal".

    I think I may try a little experiment: See, my blog is "conservative and nationalist" and has maybe five comments on it in the 14 months it has been up. So I think maybe I will put up another one without my picture on it and put up posts about maybe how conservtives are stupid and are trying to hide the fact that - for instance - this freaking series of blizzards in DC is actually evidence that global warming is true. I bet I would get weenies galore commenting. Hell, Kieth Olbermann might even feature my blog then.

    Speaking of this blizzard (which has closed the Federal government for almost a week :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate- but the low-paid minimum wage earners still manage to get to their fast-food jobs): If I was out enough in the country I would make a snowman, blindfold it and make a "YouTube" vid showing myself and about five others executing it by firing squad. I wonder what a good deer rifle would do to a snowman? I mean, this snow is RIDICULOUS. And it's keeping me off the road.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    cloudcroft wrote:
    We HEREknow better -- as do most conservatives -- but the majority of people?

    I don't give the average personany credit at all re: their ability (or desire) to sort out the facts.

    Whatever, I think they believe everything the Brady Bunch puts out as fact.

    -- John D.
    There is good news on the horizon - the American people are waking up.

    Conservative Percent by Gallup 2009

    Conservatives” Are Single-Largest Ideological Group

    Thus far in 2009, 40% of Americans interviewed in national Gallup Poll surveys describe their political views as conservative, 35% as moderate, and 21% as liberal. This represents a slight increase for conservatism in the U.S. since 2008, returning it to a level last seen in 2004. The 21% calling themselves liberal is in line with findings throughout this decade, but is up from the 1990s.

    http://larivefacets.blogspot.com/200...llup-2009.html

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    "If I was out enough in the country I would make a snowman, blindfold it and make a "YouTube" vid showing myself and about five others executing it by firing squad. I wonder what a good deer rifle would do to a snowman?" -- Alexcabbie

    It's been done...kind of: Go to youtube and search for "Death to Frosty."

    A truly cold-hearted and chilling video clip...

    -- John D.

    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Shoulda known somebody would do it. There's entirely too much snow.

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    Alexcabbie wrote:
    Shoulda known somebody would do it. There's entirely too much snow.
    Ahh, happiness is a warm gun, a cold drink, and a dead SNOWMAN!!!
    Bale da Hay

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    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Maybe yall think its funny and maybe it is, but this is the first winter storm in 20 years of driving a cab that has beaten me. Like a rented mule. Made me it's prison b**ch. Yet if yu go to the Huffington Post you will find articles explaining that we are all too stupid to realize that we are packed in ice because the planet is getting warmer.

    These can probably be found right next to the ones stating that guns kill X number of kids each year, while failing to mention that even more kids drown in private residential swimming pools, which there are fare fewer of than thre are firearms.

    You know who the mascot for the Brady Bunch ought to be? Snagglepuss, that's who. Why? Because Snagglepuss is a Lion Clown, and the Brady Bunch are likewise lyin' clowns.

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