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Thread: MOC, Inc. Board of Directors Appoints New Vice President

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    Regular Member JeffSayers's Avatar
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    As of today I have been appointed by the MOC, Inc. Board of Directors as Vice President. It is a great honor to me to be entrusted with this responsibility.



    As most of you know, there is a lot of leadership restructuring happening within MOC. Once this process has been completed, we will be scheduling a special meeting of the MOC membership to bring everyone up to speed. While no definite timetable is set, I will be doing everything I can to try to make this happen before the month is over. I will keep everyone updated.



    In the meantime, I encourage all MOC members to reply to this thread and let me know what direction you feel MOC should be going in.



    Regards,

    Jeff Sayers
    United we STAND!

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Congratz! I know you will do an excellent job.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    WOW great news, how about getting on team speak so we can congradulate you in person!

    Have we met at any of the events ?

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    Congratulations from the "salt shaker".

    :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

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    From all of us in the peanut gallery. Welcome & Good luck hope to rip on ya in team speak.

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    Regular Member JeffSayers's Avatar
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    Thanks for the support guys. I look forward to speaking with all of you in teamspeak very soon and hopefully in person very soon. But for now I feel an insomnia-related comma coming on... Just one...zzz or two more...zz... things to do... and then its bedtime.
    United we STAND!

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    It's one thing to post in the Events Thread and muck it up, but then you need to to rub this sh!t in our faces.....

    But anyway, congrats. :P

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    Congrats

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    Congrads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Congrats Jeff: Hopefully, there will only be one direction to focus on....

    FORWARD!

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    JeffSayers wrote:
    I encourage all MOC members to reply to this thread and let me know what direction you feel MOC should be going in.
    Keep going in the same direction it always has been: support and defense ofthe exercise of the RKBAin the form of open carry.

    There are two things that are true about all of us as responsible, law-abiding individualsthat we would like other peopleto assume about us, and therefore, as a matter of reciprocity, we should assume about other responsible, law-abiding gun carriers:

    • There is a reason the particular firearm, holster, etc. is being carried. Ask the carrier if you're curious.
    • The carrier of the firearm has trained with it and knows it's capabilities and limitations, and knows how to employ it properly. Ask the carrier if you're curious.
    If you don't make those two assumptions about others, then you don't deserve those two assumptions to be made about you.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    Jeff will do an excellent job at MOC, Inc and we are very happy to have him. Now that the board is complete and the remaining positions have been filled we can focus on the future.

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    Regular Member JeffSayers's Avatar
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    DanM wrote:
    JeffSayers wrote:
    I encourage all MOC members to reply to this thread and let me know what direction you feel MOC should be going in.
    Keep going in the same direction it always has been: support and defense ofthe exercise of the RKBAin the form of open carry.

    There are two things that are true about all of us as responsible, law-abiding individualsthat we would like other peopleto assume about us, and therefore, as a matter of reciprocity, we should assume about other responsible, law-abiding gun carriers:

    • There is a reason the particular firearm, holster, etc. is being carried. Ask the carrier if you're curious.
    • The carrier of the firearm has trained with it and knows it's capabilities and limitations, and knows how to employ it properly. Ask the carrier if you're curious.
    If you don't make those two assumptions about others, then you don't deserve those two assumptions to be made about you.
    You make good points here Dan. I would like all MOC members to know you voices will be heard as we move forward and onward past the long arm oc issue. Keep em' coming.
    United we STAND!

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    JeffSayers wrote:
    I would like all MOC members to know you voices will be heard as we move forward and onward past the long arm oc issue.

    Actually, I was referring to more"issues" than that, thatI've heard of while involved in OC:very large frame "scary carry" handguns, flash suppressors or other tactical handgun attachments, drop-leg holsters,horizontal-carry shoulder harness holsters, etc.

    Those, too, are examples of the diversity of OC that I am awarehave had their"political correctness"discussed, if not criticized.

    I caution that any individual or organization thatgets beyond simply holding folks to carrying legally and responsibly, and startsventuring into concerns about what may be "politically correct" or not, often may find themselves lost in a forest of their own creation. Among many examples, recall Jim Zumbo.


    I don't see MOC headed that way. This is just my general input to the general request you posed.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    So - I'm curious.

    No offense to any of the appointees, but...

    How does this play out as far as the bylaws go? Why weren't there any committees formed, no presenting before the membership, no vote?

    I understand having a temporary president when the prez resigns... but simply appointing new people to the board is curious to me.

    I'd like to get to know someone first, you know?

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    So - I'm curious.

    No offense to any of the appointees, but...

    How does this play out as far as the bylaws go? Why weren't there any committees formed, no presenting before the membership, no vote?

    I understand having a temporary president when the prez resigns... but simply appointing new people to the board is curious to me.

    I'd like to get to know someone first, you know?
    I read the bylaws - I just think that this isn't the best way of doing things.

    We don't have 10,000 members. It should be easy to do a full-member vote.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    A big +1 to Dan's post. As individuals we should discourage anything we find stupid, but as a group we must not stray from our primary goal, which is to educate people, and to at times contact representatives. The only time this group as a whole has any business telling people what to do is when making sure that things are done safely and legally. And yes, that goes far beyond long gun OC.

    Anyway, Jeff, I think you'll do the job well. I am pleased that you have been appointed to this position.

    You have my phone number, I believe. Any time you, or for that matter Generaldet need anything, please call me or PM me. We live close enough that we can meet up on short notice.

    Edit to add: I think you have a good point Ziggy. For the short term, I don't have anything wrong with Jeff having the position, because I have always found him to be a straight forward and hard working person. But it should be voted on at some point soon.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    So - I'm curious.

    No offense to any of the appointees, but...

    How does this play out as far as the bylaws go? Why weren't there any committees formed, no presenting before the membership, no vote?

    I understand having a temporary president when the prez resigns... but simply appointing new people to the board is curious to me.

    I'd like to get to know someone first, you know?
    I agree on this topic. I know some others feel the same way. Just a thought, and again like ZZZ said, no offense to ANY of the appointees, but I feel that the paying members should get a say in who is voted into the positions of MOC. (maybe for the exception of someone resigning).

    Personally I think Regional coordinators should get voted into place also. I'm not saying that the people who have been put into place recently are not going to do a great job, I'm just saying MOC should be a democracy.



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    Is this org. run by the people, or by the goverenment ?

    one vote per member, isn't that also in the by-laws ?!

    Michigander i haven't voted yet, have you since the pres resigned ?


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    T Vance wrote:
    I'm not saying that the people who have been put into place recently are not going to do a great job, I'm just saying MOC should be a democracy.
    We should vote democratically, but I don't think we have any business at all doing anything else democratically. The founders hated democracy for good reasons, same as I do.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Michigander wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    I'm not saying that the people who have been put into place recently are not going to do a great job, I'm just saying MOC should be a democracy.
    We should vote democratically, but I don't think we have any business at all doing anything else democratically. The founders hated democracy for good reasons, same as I do.
    Would you mind elaborating a little bit more?

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    Michigander wrote:
    T Vance wrote:Â*
    I'm not saying that the people who have been put into place recently are not going to do a great job, I'm just saying MOC should be a democracy.
    We should vote democratically, but I don't think we have any business at all doing anything else democratically. The founders hated democracy for good reasons, same as I do.
    I have no problem with the board doing everyday business autonomously, but I would like a say in who the board is.

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    No where within the bi-laws does it state MOC will be operated as a democracy. MOC.INC is in fact regarded by its officers as a company. The bi-laws for the members are just that, Bi-laws. You the members have paid for your membership to be governed by a company. For those of you that are not satisfied with recent decisions by the governing body in which you basicly hired, may be should have read the bi-laws before paying for this service. The governing body was elected by you even though some of the officershave left positions recently. These by-laws are in fact governing the governers. Which is exactly what they are supposed to do. If you have issue's with this after the fact. Read the bi-laws as in the end you the members do indeed control the entire board.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    I'm not saying that the people who have been put into place recently are not going to do a great job, I'm just saying MOC should be a democracy.
    We should vote democratically, but I don't think we have any business at all doing anything else democratically. The founders hated democracy for good reasons, same as I do.
    I have no problem with the board doing everyday business autonomously, but I would like a say in who the board is.
    That's exactly what I meant to say. People are appointed positions to handle certain business, but I'd like a say in who is appointed, JMO.

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    wardog6d wrote:
    No where within the bi-laws does it state MOC will be operated as a democracy. MOC.INC is in fact regarded by its officers as a company.Â* The bi-laws for the members are just that, Bi-laws. You the members have paid for your membership to be governed by a company. For those of you that are not satisfied with recent decisions by the governing body in which you basicly hired, may be should have read the bi-laws before paying for this service. The governing body was elected by you even though some of the officersÂ*have left positions recently. These by-laws are in fact governing the governers. Which is exactly what they are supposed to do. If you have issue's with this after the fact. Read the bi-laws as in the end you the members do indeed control the entire board.
    FWIW, the bylaws were not published (were they even created?), nor was there a MOC website, when I first joined as a charter member.

    I don't currently see a violation of the bylaws, but I'm saying that the future of this "business" had better change, or else my membership is gone. I can be a civil rights activist without paying $50/yr to MOC.

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