View Poll Results: Should a special meeting be called?

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Thread: MOC - amending bylaws

  1. #1
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    Preface: The complete bylaws are here: http://miopencarry.org/Attachments/MOCBY-LAWS-REVA.PDF

    I'm considering a formal request for a special meeting, something that requires 10% of the voting membership to do. I'm nearly certain I can get the 10%.

    My reason for calling a special meeting is because I believe the bylaws to be flawed.

    The portions I believe to be flawed:

    5.6 Vacancies.
    The Board will fill any vacancy in the Board and any Governor position to be filled due to an increase in the number of Governors. A vacancy is filled by the affirmative vote of a majority of the remaining Governors, even if it is less than a quorum of the Board, or if it is a sole remaining Governor. A Governor selected to fill a vacancy will serve for the unexpired term of his or her predecessor in office. Any tie will be decided by the Sgt. at Arms.
    Basically, this states that a new board position may be created by the board itself, and then the position filled by the board itself.

    6.7 Vacancies.
    (1) The Board may select a person to fill a vacancy in any office for the unexpired portion of the director’s term. (2) The Board may authorize the President to appoint a person to fill a vacancy in any office for which the President is authorized to make an appointment under Section 5.3(2).
    This basically states that if a vacancy of any existing board position occurs, that the board may simply fill that vacancy with whomever they choose.

    I believe that, since the board makes virtually ALL decisions for MOC, that the membership should *ALWAYS* be entitled to elect members of the board, should a vacancy occur.

    Am I off base here?

  2. #2
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    With complete respect and approval for Jeff Sayers having the VP position, I still say yes, you're right. I think it would be better to have something like60 days or less that a specially appointedinterim VP can serve, with a special election held within that time frame.

    I am not opposed to the system in place now, but I think this would probably be better.


    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  3. #3
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    Michigander, you idea would prevent the perception of late night backroom deals.

    ETA:

    No, this is not about Jeff.

  4. #4
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Michigander, you idea would prevent the perception of late night backroom deals.

    ETA:

    No, this is not about Jeff.
    No, I agree, this is not about who was appointed.

    This is about someone being appointed without a vote.

    I have no qualms with Jeff or anyone else. I just think that we need to amend the bylaws so that we don't deal with this again.

  5. #5
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    Interim appointment followed by a special election allows for at least some discussion about and consideration of those seeking election.

    It also gives me time to get a campaign started for anyone that doesn't want one.:celebrate

  6. #6
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    If such were the case the presidency would have had to have a election do to its vacancy. To be considered is that with so many quiters within the .INC are you planning on holding an election every time it gets hot in the kitchen and someone quits? Seriously people are quiting the running for a positions.

  7. #7
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    wardog6d wrote:
    If such were the case the presidency would have had to have a election do to its vacancy.


    The members voted in Generaldet, and it is rather customary for a VP to take over after a president leaves or dies. It would be different if theVP remained the same and the board then voteda new president in to place.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    wardog6d wrote:
    If such were the case the presidency would have had to have a election do to its vacancy. To be considered is that with so many quiters within the .INC are you planning on holding an election every time it gets hot in the kitchen and someone quits?
    Interim appointment followed by special election.

    Yes every time.

    But with a period of consideration, maybe we could prevent the election of quitters and hence elect winners instead.

    Winners don't quit.
    Quitters don't win.

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    Michigander wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    If such were the case the presidency would have had to have a election do to its vacancy.


    The members voted in Generaldet, and it is rather customary for a VP to take over after a president leaves or dies. It would be different if theVP remained the same and the board then voteda new president in to place.
    Customary in the United States of American and our own consitition. According to the MOC.INC bi-laws it has nothing in common with the constitution.

  10. #10
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    A follow up special election could also be view as a vote of confidence too.

  11. #11
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    What happens when we get bigger?

    Nearly ALL Corporations work this way and for good reason.

    Besides, it's only temporary until the regular vote takes place.

    We elect members of the board because we feel they will do a good job and because we trust them. Now you're saying they may not be able to be trusted?

    ZZZ, It's my opinion that you're being short sighted.

  12. #12
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    The US constitution is one of the most successful governing structures in the history of our planet. So, I am not opposed to MOC's rules mirroring aspects of it.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  13. #13
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    MOC does in fact have a governing body. Lets look at it from this stand point. If a company CEO quits what happens within the company. They Hire another! Do the share holders elect another?

  14. #14
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    dougwg wrote:
    What happens when we get bigger?

    Nearly ALL Corporations work this way and for good reason.

    Besides, it's only temporary until the regular vote takes place.

    We elect members of the board because we feel they will do a good job and because we trust them. Now you're saying they may not be able to be trusted?

    ZZZ, It's my opinion that you're being short sighted.
    Well that's true too. It is a "representative" form of governing.

    Now I'm vacillating.

  15. #15
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    wardog6d wrote:
    MOC does in fact have a governing body. Lets look at it from this stand point. If a company CEO quits what happens within the company. They Hire another! Do the share holders elect another?
    A CEO is outside the governing body, that'd be like appointing a state coordinator that is a position held over the regional coordinators.

  16. #16
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    What happens when we get bigger?

    Nearly ALL Corporations work this way and for good reason.

    Besides, it's only temporary until the regular vote takes place.

    We elect members of the board because we feel they will do a good job and because we trust them.Â* Now you're saying they may not be able to be trusted?

    ZZZ, It's my opinion that you're being short sighted.
    Well that's true too. It is a "representative" form of governing.

    Now I'm vacillating.
    It's only a representative form of government if we get to elect the representatives. If they're appointed, it's not the same. It's bastardizing the process.

  17. #17
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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    MOC does in fact have a governing body. Lets look at it from this stand point. If a company CEO quits what happens within the company. They Hire another! Do the share holders elect another?
    A CEO is outside the governing body, that'd be like appointing a state coordinator that is a position held over the regional coordinators.
    Your missing the point. You the members have elected all of the board. You elected each individual based on your opinion they will do whats right for the cause. Now your questioning there ability to do what you have elected them to do in accordance with the bi-laws they are governed by.

  18. #18
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    As generaldet stated if you allow the bi-laws to be amended every time a new ragime takes office. They will amend them to fit there own personal agenda.

  19. #19
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    wardog6d wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    MOC does in fact have a governing body. Lets look at it from this stand point. If a company CEO quits what happens within the company. They Hire another! Do the share holders elect another?
    A CEO is outside the governing body, that'd be like appointing a state coordinator that is a position held over the regional coordinators.
    Your missing the point. You the members have elected all of the board. You elected each individual based on your opinion they will do whats right for the cause. Now your questioning there ability to do what you have elected them to do in accordance with the bi-laws they are governed by.
    Ding ding ding...we have a winner...

  20. #20
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    we elected all of the board ?

    and who is on the board ?

    is the vice pres on the board ?





  21. #21
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    I have no problem with the way the board functions. If the board starts making descisions contrary to the by-laws as written, then I'd have a problem.

  22. #22
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    mastiff69 wrote:
    we elected all of the board ?

    and who is on the board ?

    is the vice pres on the board ?



    The board/Council/Governing bodywas elected by its members. They have followed the guidelines of the bi-laws. Now you question not only the governing body in place but also the bi-laws in place. Which you should have questioned before you became a member. If in fact you have issues with any of the above, as a perspective member you should haveknownthe answer to your own questionbefore signing the check.

  23. #23
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    As I have stated before you have paid to join a volunteer organization. A volunteer organization which has a governing body. You and only you have paid to be governed by this organization in anything you do with regards to them or vise versa. The election process was held. Wether or not you were a member at that time has no bearing on the fact these people were put in place bythe current members at that time. It is not the board/Council/Governing bodies responsiblity to cater to your individual perspective but to continue on with the main goal of the company which is far more important then any individual ideals.

  24. #24
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    wardog6d wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    MOC does in fact have a governing body. Lets look at it from this stand point. If a company CEO quits what happens within the company. They Hire another! Do the share holders elect another?
    A CEO is outside the governing body, that'd be like appointing a state coordinator that is a position held over the regional coordinators.
    Your missing the point. You the members have elected all of the board. You elected each individual based on your opinion they will do whats right for the cause. Now your questioning there ability to do what you have elected them to do in accordance with the bi-laws they are governed by.
    Hitler was elected into power. So was Saddam Hussein.

  25. #25
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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    MOC does in fact have a governing body. Lets look at it from this stand point. If a company CEO quits what happens within the company. They Hire another! Do the share holders elect another?
    A CEO is outside the governing body, that'd be like appointing a state coordinator that is a position held over the regional coordinators.
    Your missing the point. You the members have elected all of the board. You elected each individual based on your opinion they will do whats right for the cause. Now your questioning there ability to do what you have elected them to do in accordance with the bi-laws they are governed by.
    Hitler was elected into power. So was Saddam Hussein.
    The point is - I want the republic body that is the governing board to ALWAYS be comprised of elected members, and NEVER be comprised of appointed members.

    It should NEVER be the case that ANY member of the governing board is appointed, except for in extreme extenuating circumstances, and then should only be for a temporary time, say 60 days, until an election can be held.

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