Do you contact the owner/manager while setting up a OC meet & eat or get together

imported post

springerdave wrote:

I am planning to stop by your place sometime tommorrow. I wanted to speak with you because we are the type of people that don't leave our security to chance and we will be legally armed. The catch is that not everyone knows that this is indeed legal, perhaps even yourself and I wanted to give you some information in the off-chance one of your patrons comes to you with a complaint.

 I'll just send this to every business that I ever plan to patronize, that way it'll quell any future problems. And monkeys will fly out of my butt:uhoh:.springerdave.

Click to expand...

This is not for when you yourself go out to eat OC but rather when a large group is planning to do so.

imported post

Autosurgeon, at what number of persons in your party would you deem it appropriate to forewarn establishments of the intention to come armed? Two, three, five? What happens if several people just happen to show up:shock: unbeknownst to the other:what:, do you send an apology note?. When will it be unnecessary to warn establishments of the presence of armed patrons:banghead:? So it is OK for me to instill fear and panic on my own, but not if I am in the company of other like minded persons.springredave.

imported post

springerdave wrote:

Autosurgeon, at what number of persons in your party would you deem it appropriate to forewarn establishments of the intention to come armed? Two, three, five? What happens if several people just happen to show up:shock: unbeknownst to the other:what:, do you send an apology note?. When will it be unnecessary to warn establishments of the presence of armed patrons:banghead:? So it is OK for me to instill fear and panic on my own, but not if I am in the company of other like minded persons.springredave.

Click to expand...

+1 IMO Educate = Polite = Knowledgeable = Respectful = Invite = Spread Word Not Panic = Winner = Educate

imported post

You must understand that no matter what kind of group you are taking out to eat it is good to know the establishments policy on groups.

Many require notice to seat you together. And some require an Automatic 18% gratuity. Many will not do separate checks for groups.

What this means is it is the polite thing to do when setting up an event that you know will be big and that is an official MOC educational event IE you will be having a table or the banners will be posted and it has been arranged through your coordinator that the business be given notice of what to expect from your group.

However I have found that when you set up in advance for separate checks most places will do that even for large groups.

And this is not asking permission per say but rather just informing them what to expect from your group... not unlike if a group with young children call ahead to find out if they have enough highchairs and booster seats.

If they say NO then you have saved the trouble of getting kicked out and all of the hassle that can come with that.

NOTE if you are setting up a casual meet and it will not be a MOC event then YOU can choose to do whatever you like it is your meeting.

imported post

springerdave wrote:

Autosurgeon, at what number of persons in your party would you deem it appropriate to forewarn establishments of the intention to come armed? Two, three, five? What happens if several people just happen to show up:shock: unbeknownst to the other:what:, do you send an apology note?. When will it be unnecessary to warn establishments of the presence of armed patrons:banghead:? So it is OK for me to instill fear and panic on my own, but not if I am in the company of other like minded persons.springredave.

Click to expand...

Autosurgeon was right about the intent of my ficticious statement. I have never notified anyone of anything when I am about my business alone or with my family.

To answer your valid questions to the best of my (arguably limited) reasoning:

If you have to put a number qualifier on this, I would suggest two. And here's my thoughts - 1 man alone is alot easier for a manager/owner to approach themselves. 1 man alone can easily be responded by two officers in one cruiser (Not that it is necessarilyappropriate) so if that happens it is less likely to be a Pandora's box.

As for several people showing up unbeknownst to each other... Well, are you sitting with strangers? You are still one person. If you do make friends that easily great, it may be in the best interest of your evening to ask for a manager. Just the simple fact of having asked for the manager, even if only to ask to pull some tables together, you have given them an opportunity to "know" you a litle bit.

When will it be unnecessary to "warn" of armed patrons? Not fair; nobody suggested a warning in the sense I read from your question. My thoughts are not to issue a warning about armed patrons but rather to give a warning (as in "heads-up") about a very real possibility of libtarted behavior from unarmed patrons to the benefit of my group, the establishment, and possibly the PD of jurisdiction.

I could ramble but...

AGAIN, I clarify, this is my personal opinion at the current moment. I reserve the right to change my opinion given additional information on the subject matter in the future.

imported post

Jeff, why would you say "not fair"? It does seem to me that a forewarning is just what the establishments are getting when they are called ahead of the meet&eat and allowed the opportunity to decline your $$.springerdave.

imported post

Well, from the your statement I read warning as though intended to giving warning of a dangerous event that would be imminent unless they took action to prevent me from coming.

When I say heads-up (or warning if you like) I mean it more as providing them information they may need to accomodate me without having to risk losing other guests. A big reason for this is so that they do not have to make an on-the-spot decision. A business owner's priority is about making money, not accomodating minority guests (Which we are at this point) at the risk of losing "traditional" guests. More often than not, they will err to caution due to lack of knowledge. If they have that knowledge they can ease the concerns of the hypothetical libtard without further risk.

How about a homework assignment? Why don't we each get in touch with a few business owners and see if we can probe their grey stuff to see how they feel. Hell, we may both be way off base as far as we know. --- Or better yet maybe, is there an online forum of restauranteers or something like that? If so, we could write up a questionaire to submit and see what happens. Sound like a deal?

AGAIN, I clarify, this is my personal opinion at the current moment. I reserve the right to change my opinion given additional information on the subject matter in the future. (I wish I could make this a default signature!)

imported post

Hmmm, sounds like a challenge, one that would ask me to be pro-active:uhoh: and I am somewhat an antithesis of pro-active. I enjoy listening to debate, sometimes interject an opinion but fail miserably at contacting (confronting) sources(lazy,timid?you decide). I'll just go to the places I normally go and "face the music" when it's played. It's unlikely that I'll be involved with any MOC group meet & eat due partly to location. As far as I know, the nearest other OCer is 40 miles from here so large groups necessitating a "heads up" ain't happening. The only time I've been involved in asking a restaurant proprietor their stance on open carry, she said calmly that gun owners would be asked to leave if she saw a gun in her restaurant. I was CC at the time and told her that she would not see my gun. Went there several more times CC b/c I thought I needed the place then quit going there altogether. I saw it as a conflict with my principals. I don't need that restaurant any more than she needs my money. Semi-rant off.springerdave.

imported post

Well, I certainly would not want to challenge you to a duel!

Maybe someone might take an interest in the idea though...

imported post

Well Jeff, your idea. How about in your multitude of free time ....

Draft an MOC survey for us to take around to said businesses and take an overall view from that. I had brought this up before but got flamed before it even took off.
I figured maybe try it again.

Hence it does not appear we are "asking permission" and we at least get an idea if they are receptive to receiving as guests.

JMO

imported post

WARCHILD wrote:

Well Jeff, your idea. How about in your multitude of free time ....

Draft an MOC survey for us to take around to said businesses and take an overall view from that. I had brought this up before but got flamed before it even took off.
I figured maybe try it again.

Hence it does not appear we are "asking permission" and we at least get an idea if they are receptive to receiving as guests. 

JMO

Click to expand...

...

imported post

I would focus more on asking what they would like us to do WHEN COMING to their place. while the intention of your document is spot-on, it does come off as a little overly feeble. I'll see if I can't inject perhaps just a little more testosterone into it and get something back to you.

imported post

Re-write as you feel needed. This is just a general idea to cover the issue.

Input is always welcome....injections...hhmmmm.....have to think about that, unless of course it's with Viagra for the weekend!:celebrate

imported post

.

imported post

JeffSayers wrote:

I would focus more on asking what they would like us to do WHEN COMING to their place. while the intention of your document is spot-on, it does come off as a little overly feeble. I'll see if I can't inject perhaps just a little more testosterone into it and get something back to you.

Click to expand...

IMHO WARCHILDis right on the Money in his Survey ! Seven easy Soft polite Questions . What would you Demand of Owner of their business ? Speak soft ......Sugar than vinegar ,,,,,Blow the house down ?

imported post

Do you mind sharing what restaurant that is?

I had thought to keep it generic, just write the name of the business you give it to at the top of the page.
This is just a generic survey for individuals to pass around the neighbor to get an idea of who is receptive to enjoying our company for a visit.

imported post

.

imported post

T Vance wrote:

While I like this idea (the Questionaire)to some extent,isn't it possible thatwe more likely to see people just give a flat out "NO"? It seems that if they see 1-2 people OCing in their business, not causing any problems, they are more likely to realize it's not a bad thing. Whereas when they read a piece of paper that basically asks, "do you mind having guns in your business" it doesn't truely show them that there shouldn't be any problems.

I would think that most business owners/managers instincts would tell them GUNS=BAD.

Click to expand...

Educate Its their business and their Money !

imported post

Well T: This is where we interject our radiant personalities in a "conversation" with said owner and explain the OC issue. If we just walk in the door and say take this survey, yes, the majority of checks will probably be no. However if we explain a little more in depth to the owner the issue "before" giving them the survey; they may have a different reaction; or just say no and not even want the survey. As usual, you have to play each interaction on the mindset the owner has to begin with.
JMO