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blackjacket2000

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
16
Location
federal way, Washington, USA
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I plan on OC'ing pretty soon. Just trying to memorize the RCW's I should no so if I need to recite the TRUTH on some LEO's then I can. I think OC is better than CC in many ways. You have a deterent of having the gun visible making a perp that much more cautious before doing anything. It sounds corny but I honestly think the world would be a better place if EVERY good gun owner open carried. I am looking for an OWB holster and not sure what to get. Heard good things about Serpa's. Tell me what you think and maybe get a meet in the tacoma/federal way area where I'm located or have a shoot day at bullseye. Thanks guys and stay safe.
 
Mainsail

Mainsail

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,533
Location
Silverdale, Washington, USA
imported post

blackjacket2000 wrote:
I plan on OC'ing pretty soon. Just trying to memorize the RCW's I should no so if I need to recite the TRUTH on some LEO's then I can.
Click to expand...
Don't worry about memorizing the RCWs. You are not going to educate a police officer. They are well aware of the legality of open carry, and even if they don't, they're not going to accept a lesson from you.

If you are stopped, determine if the officer is detaining you (he may merely be having a friendly conversation with you) by asking, "Am I being detained?"

If no: Walk away. Don't justify your actions, don't debate, walk away. Again, walk away. If you still don't understand what my suggestion is, it's walk away.

If yes: Ask for what you are being detained. Get an answer or shut up. Peaceably carrying a firearm in a holster is not a crime, thus a police officer cannot detain you to "check you out" or check your CPL, or any other reason. If he's detaining you without suspicion of a crime, you are not going to 'teach' him anything, so shut up.

If you want to bone up on WA law, concentrate on Article 1 Section 7.
 
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blackjacket2000

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
16
Location
federal way, Washington, USA
imported post

Good points. I didn't neccesarily mean that I was gonna teach a LEO cause they don't know the laws. I just meant that some LEO's don't expect people to know the laws and do push there limits. Not all of them. I love LE but there is a select few that do certain things they shouldn't because they expect you not to know better. To show those select few that there are concerned citizens that do know the laws is closer to what I meant. But yes, walking away is always the best way to deal with a conflict situation if its possibility to do so. Thanks again guys. Any meets in the south sound or shooting dates?
 
Mainsail

Mainsail

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,533
Location
Silverdale, Washington, USA
imported post

blackjacket2000 wrote:
But yes, walking away is always the best way to deal with a conflict situation if its possibility to do so.
Click to expand...
If you are not being detained, possibility doesn't play into it. Walk away. If you want advice, that's it. Walk away. Don't try to dazzle him with your knowledge of the RCWs, it will not impress him. Walk away.
 
gogodawgs

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
imported post

Welcome to the site. I too am from Federal Way/NE Tacoma area. Print off the phamplet and carry a few around if some one asks. As far as LEO.

YOU: "Am I being arrested?" LEO: "NO"

YOU: "Am I being detained?" LEO: "NO, I just want to ask you some questions..." (i.e. ID, where you are going, etc....)

"Thank you sir, by your ownwords I am free to go." ....and WALK AWAY.

Check out my South Sound carry thread....

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/35549.html
 
SpyderTattoo

SpyderTattoo

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
1,015
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
imported post

Blackjacket, there is a hugeanti-tax ralley down in Olympia at the capitol building on Monday the 15th (this coming Monday). Many thousands of people are expected to show. I'm going down there. I live in Kent and I'm picking up DEROS on the way down there. I have room in my truck for 2 or 3 others if you're on the way between Kent and Oly. See my thread http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/37892.html. Welcome to the OC movement. Read alot... heed the wisdom of the "senior" posters here. OC with some of us and by yourself and be confident. Most of us OC on a daily basis with no issues.
 
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antispam540

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Messages
546
Location
Poulsbo, Washington, USA
imported post

Have you seen all the police interaction videos on YouTube? They never respond to "am I being detained" or "am I free to go" with an answer, just with their own questions or commands. If you ask, get no answer, and walk away, they'll tackle you and handcuff you and drag you off to jail for "resisting arrest". If you stay there assuming you're under arrest, they'll do what they want, preach to you, then walk away and claim it was entirely consensual.

There's no way to win in a police encounter like that unless you have a voice recorder. Tell them you don't consent to further conversation. If they keep talking to you, ask if you're free to go. If they don't answer that, tell them that their refusal to answer makes you feel that you are not free to go, say you do not waive any of your rights or consent to any searches, and that you won't resist but the lack of resistance should not be construed as implied consent. Then don't say another word until they either walk away or you're sitting down with a lawyer.

After the encounter, make copies of your recording and distribute them to the media or these forums - unless you want to try to file a complaint with the police, who seem to usually require you to sit down and discuss the complaint with an officer before submitting it. Guess who, in most of the instances seen on the internet, sits down with the complainant? Officer Harassment. Ask anyone here how long it's taken them to get a police department to take these complaints seriously, and they'll tell you it's an uphill battle with no real reward other than "training bulletins" (which often are worded misleadingly or incorrectly, giving bad officers the excuse to keep doing it).

All you can do is hope they don't destroy, steal, or erase your recording device. Making a phone call to a number that records everything remotely is a great way to keep them from destroying evidence, and several states already have that service set up by enterprising open-carriers.

It's sad that we have to worry about these things from our own public servants, but there is video after video showing that the ones most likely to harass you for carrying are the ones most likely to weasel their way out of giving you any grounds to walk away, most likely to falsify their reports, and most likely to destroy, erase, or confiscate your recording device in the name of "officer safety".
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
imported post

Mainsail wrote:
blackjacket2000 wrote:
But yes, walking away is always the best way to deal with a conflict situation if its possibility to do so.
Click to expand...
If you are not being detained, possibility doesn't play into it. Walk away. If you want advice, that's it. Walk away. Don't try to dazzle him with your knowledge of the RCWs, it will not impress him. Walk away.
Click to expand...
+1 If they don't let you walk away, knowing you are right whether or not you have memorized the RCW, helps keep you calm, and the more they harass you the more they are tying their own rope.
 
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blackjacket2000

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
16
Location
federal way, Washington, USA
imported post

SpyderTattoo wrote:
Blackjacket, there is a hugeanti-tax ralley down in Olympia at the capitol building on Monday the 15th (this coming Monday). Many thousands of people are expected to show. I'm going down there. I live in Kent and I'm picking up DEROS on the way down there. I have room in my truck for 2 or 3 others if you're on the way between Kent and Oly. See my thread http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/37892.html. Welcome to the OC movement. Read alot... heed the wisdom of the "senior" posters here. OC with some of us and by yourself and be confident. Most of us OC on a daily basis with no issues.
Click to expand...
No, i have to work all day that day, wish I could though. but I'm down to get together with some of you guys some other time. Go to the range, OC, coffee, whatever... all sound good to me.
 
B

blackjacket2000

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
16
Location
federal way, Washington, USA
imported post

antispam540 wrote:
Have you seen all the police interaction videos on YouTube? They never respond to "am I being detained" or "am I free to go" with an answer, just with their own questions or commands. If you ask, get no answer, and walk away, they'll tackle you and handcuff you and drag you off to jail for "resisting arrest". If you stay there assuming you're under arrest, they'll do what they want, preach to you, then walk away and claim it was entirely consensual.

There's no way to win in a police encounter like that unless you have a voice recorder. Tell them you don't consent to further conversation. If they keep talking to you, ask if you're free to go. If they don't answer that, tell them that their refusal to answer makes you feel that you are not free to go, say you do not waive any of your rights or consent to any searches, and that you won't resist but the lack of resistance should not be construed as implied consent. Then don't say another word until they either walk away or you're sitting down with a lawyer.

After the encounter, make copies of your recording and distribute them to the media or these forums - unless you want to try to file a complaint with the police, who seem to usually require you to sit down and discuss the complaint with an officer before submitting it. Guess who, in most of the instances seen on the internet, sits down with the complainant? Officer Harassment. Ask anyone here how long it's taken them to get a police department to take these complaints seriously, and they'll tell you it's an uphill battle with no real reward other than "training bulletins" (which often are worded misleadingly or incorrectly, giving bad officers the excuse to keep doing it).

All you can do is hope they don't destroy, steal, or erase your recording device. Making a phone call to a number that records everything remotely is a great way to keep them from destroying evidence, and several states already have that service set up by enterprising open-carriers.

It's sad that we have to worry about these things from our own public servants, but there is video after video showing that the ones most likely to harass you for carrying are the ones most likely to weasel their way out of giving you any grounds to walk away, most likely to falsify their reports, and most likely to destroy, erase, or confiscate your recording device in the name of "officer safety".
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've seen them. I just gotta realize most LEO's aren't like that and around here most of them are good people. Beyond just OC'ing and firearms I do know my rights as far as why they can detain you and how. Usually if there detaining you you'll know and if its not apparent then your probably not detained. I'm getting two different perspectives on this and I gotta believe the best way to go is right in the middle. Answer the questions you feel are fair, be respectful, and after that if your not being detained then respectfully excuse yourself and walk away. Respect, kindness, and calmness go a long way with LEO's and I think that will earn his respect so if you ever see him again. I am new, maybe I'm wrong. One side is just walk away which is good if you can but doesn't build repore with him and LE and the other side of just taking his s**t isn't right either. The actions of one effect all. And if we all treat LEO's with respect then LE as a hole will look upon all of us in the same light helping the movement for OC.
 
Squeak

Squeak

Regular Member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
827
Location
Port Orchard,
imported post

SpyderTattoo wrote:
Blackjacket, there is a hugeanti-tax ralley down in Olympia at the capitol building on Monday the 15th (this coming Monday). Many thousands of people are expected to show. I'm going down there. I live in Kent and I'm picking up DEROS on the way down there. I have room in my truck for 2 or 3 others if you're on the way between Kent and Oly. See my thread http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/37892.html. Welcome to the OC movement. Read alot... heed the wisdom of the "senior" posters here. OC with some of us and by yourself and be confident. Most of us OC on a daily basis with no issues.
Click to expand...
what time do you plan to be there?
 
SpyderTattoo

SpyderTattoo

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
1,015
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
imported post

Squeak wrote:
SpyderTattoo wrote:
Blackjacket, there is a hugeanti-tax ralley down in Olympia at the capitol building on Monday the 15th (this coming Monday). Many thousands of people are expected to show. I'm going down there. I live in Kent and I'm picking up DEROS on the way down there. I have room in my truck for 2 or 3 others if you're on the way between Kent and Oly. See my thread http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/37892.html. Welcome to the OC movement. Read alot... heed the wisdom of the "senior" posters here. OC with some of us and by yourself and be confident. Most of us OC on a daily basis with no issues.
Click to expand...
what time do you plan to be there?
Click to expand...
Squeak, I'm picking up Deros ( still have a couple more seats if anyone is interested) and plan to be there around 9-9:30. I guess 10:00 is the official start. I'm not too familiar with the area, so I'm sure we'll be searching for a place to park. If you're panning on being there, PM me your phone number and we'll hook up once we are in the area. Be nice to all hang out together while we're there.
 
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