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Thread: CERT Volunteer

  1. #1
    Regular Member gis's Avatar
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    I guy that works for me decided to volunteer with his local CERT. He asked me if he can carry while he is training and volunteering. He has a CHP. I told him that I believe that he can, as he will be volunteering for his county/city, and the training will be done at the local fire department and other local government facilities. He said that his local fire department has a no-carry policy for employees, but he is not an employee. They can't fire him. But can they legally kick him out?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    gis wrote:
    I guy that works for me decided to volunteer with his local CERT. He asked me if he can carry while he is training and volunteering. He has a CHP. I told him that I believe that he can, as he will be volunteering for his county/city, and the training will be done at the local fire department and other local government facilities. He said that his local fire department has a no-carry policy for employees, but he is not an employee. They can't fire him. But can they legally kick him out?
    Yep...he can carry and they can kick him out of the program.

  3. #3
    Regular Member gis's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    gis wrote:
    I guy that works for me decided to volunteer with his local CERT. He asked me if he can carry while he is training and volunteering. He has a CHP. I told him that I believe that he can, as he will be volunteering for his county/city, and the training will be done at the local fire department and other local government facilities. He said that his local fire department has a no-carry policy for employees, but he is not an employee. They can't fire him. But can they legally kick him out?
    Yep...he can carry and they can kick him out of the program.
    I guess, don't ask don't tell is the best course of action?

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Open Carry is the best course of action! Looks like a great opportunity to spread the word to me.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Regular Member gis's Avatar
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    t33j wrote:
    Open Carry is the best course of action! Looks like a great opportunity to spread the word to me.
    That may be, but it may also be very short-lived. That is if the guy is asked to leave as soon as he shows up.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Yeah I guess it depends on which he wants to do more.. but I know I'd be carrying.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    I was going to sign up for my county's CERT program , but all the training is at a school, perhaps the new bill pass and wipe that stupid law aside!

  8. #8
    Regular Member gis's Avatar
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    He told me this morning that he signed up and that he will be carrying (didn't say OC or CC). His classes will be at the countyfire academy and he wasn't told that he couldn't carry (even though he knows that fire employees are not allowed). Should be interesting.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    gis wrote:
    He told me this morning that he signed up and that he will be carrying (didn't say OC or CC). His classes will be at the countyfire academy and he wasn't told that he couldn't carry (even though he knows that fire employees are not allowed). Should be interesting.
    I know a fellow that took a Kayak rescue course that had basically the same rules, in a County lake (Pre Preemption) I think his name was Ralph He carried a Beretta Minx in a dry bag in his back pocket. I didn't approve though. He didn't have a CHP.

    No one ever knew and he got through the class. I guess that's why it's called ...concealed.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Most municipalities have rules for volunteers - and most of those rules include "No Firearms While Acting As A Volunteer".

    Yes, you can carry on municipal property (with the minor exceptions of courthouses, secure areas of jails, etc.) but only as a citizen "visiting" those places. If you want to "work" as an unpaid employee/agent of the municipality they can impose many restrictions on you - including the no firearms one. Get caught and you will almost assuredly be "fired" from your volunteer position. You could face other legal troubles such as criminal trespass, disturbing the peace, or whatever else the local cops & Commonwealth Attorney can dream up.

    Is volunteering for CERT or any other position where you wiull be entering a "disaster" zone a worthy endeavor? You bet it is! Is is, IMNSHO, wise to enter a "disaster" zone without effective means of self defense? No way!!

    Please remind your friend that he needs to really think which activity - carry or be a CERT volunteer - is most important to him.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  11. #11
    Regular Member gis's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    Most municipalities have rules for volunteers - and most of those rules include "No Firearms While Acting As A Volunteer".

    Yes, you can carry on municipal property (with the minor exceptions of courthouses, secure areas of jails, etc.) but only as a citizen "visiting" those places. If you want to "work" as an unpaid employee/agent of the municipality they can impose many restrictions on you - including the no firearms one. Get caught and you will almost assuredly be "fired" from your volunteer position. You could face other legal troubles such as criminal trespass, disturbing the peace, or whatever else the local cops & Commonwealth Attorney can dream up.

    Is volunteering for CERT or any other position where you wiull be entering a "disaster" zone a worthy endeavor? You bet it is! Is is, IMNSHO, wise to enter a "disaster" zone without effective means of self defense? No way!!

    Please remind your friend that he needs to really think which activity - carry or be a CERT volunteer - is most important to him.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    Interesting point, skidmark. The way this CERT program operates, they invite citizens to take classes in various disciplines without being obligated to join the CERT. Each class is offered several times a year, and people who complete all 8-10 of them within 12 months can apply to join the CERT, which involves some additional hoops like the background check, etc. So until he actually joins the CERT and becomes a volunteer, even by your argument, he is just a citizen visiting his local fire academy for taxpayer-funded training. I believe that pre-emption should still apply. Agree or disagree?

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    gis wrote:
    Interesting point, skidmark. The way this CERT program operates, they invite citizens to take classes in various disciplines without being obligated to join the CERT. Each class is offered several times a year, and people who complete all 8-10 of them within 12 months can apply to join the CERT, which involves some additional hoops like the background check, etc. So until he actually joins the CERT and becomes a volunteer, even by your argument, he is just a citizen visiting his local fire academy for taxpayer-funded training. I believe that pre-emption should still apply. Agree or disagree?
    It's not a question of whether or not I agree with you - it's a question of what rules the municiplality sets up for attending the training. Before I say I lean one way or another I'd like to see either "the Rules" or other documentation of the training program.

    But absent any "Rules"I would think (a dangerous practice for most folks but one I can do even in my sleep) you are probably correct. Unless he does not have the time to do a little pro se legal work ( http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+15.2-915note subsection C) I'd tell him to go ahead and open carry in class.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  13. #13
    Regular Member gis's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    gis wrote:
    Interesting point, skidmark. The way this CERT program operates, they invite citizens to take classes in various disciplines without being obligated to join the CERT. Each class is offered several times a year, and people who complete all 8-10 of them within 12 months can apply to join the CERT, which involves some additional hoops like the background check, etc. So until he actually joins the CERT and becomes a volunteer, even by your argument, he is just a citizen visiting his local fire academy for taxpayer-funded training. I believe that pre-emption should still apply. Agree or disagree?
    It's not a question of whether or not I agree with you - it's a question of what rules the municiplality sets up for attending the training. Before I say I lean one way or another I'd like to see either "the Rules" or other documentation of the training program.

    But absent any "Rules"I would think (a dangerous practice for most folks but one I can do even in my sleep) you are probably correct. Unless he does not have the time to do a little pro se legal work ( http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+15.2-915note subsection C) I'd tell him to go ahead and open carry in class.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    Thanks again. Personally, I haven't seen the rules, so will stop speculating.

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