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Thread: OC questions

  1. #1
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    Hey everyone, Im new here, but ive been readind around for awhile. Ive read alot about OC on alot of forums and I would like to give it a try. Im 20years old. I live in White Lake, or Marquette (im a full time student at NMU). Iwill be carrya Glock 23. Now since I cannot get my CPL for a year, I know that limits me in alot of ways.

    I was planning to try to OC at Walmart for the first time, I dont know why, it just seems like an easy place. But then i just read on here that if I dont have a CPL, i cant carry in any place selling alcohol. Which makes alot of stores/restaurants of limits to me. Is that true? Ive looked into the laws alot and i just didnt realize those places would be off limits.

    Where would a good place be to try open carrying?

    Any things you guys can think of that I should know before doing it?

    I know that to transport a handgun I have to have it unloaded in the back of my truck. First, I have a pickup, can I keep it in my backseat? Or does it need to be in the bed? Also, i'm only supposed to have it in my truck from home to the range or woods or whateve.Is transporting it to a place of OC legal? How would you explain that to an LEO?

    And basically, in your opinions, shoulI carry now? or wait till I get my CPL?

    Thank you all in advance for the help!

  2. #2
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum!

    You are correct about not being able to OC anywhere that sells alcohol. Here is the law which lists the places in which you can not legally OC (without a CPL).

    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234d.

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.

    (c) A court.

    (d) A theatre.

    (e) A sports arena.

    (f) A day care center.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.



    Check out the carry chart in this thread:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/36728.html

    Make sure that if your university has a no weapons policy that you don't carry on their property. Even though it's legal, you could get expelled.

    As for transporting a pistol in a truck, you must have it in a locked case which is not accessible to you while driving. Put it as far away from you as possible. If you can transport it in the bed, that would be the safest way, legally speaking.

    As for transporting it somewhere to OC, here is what the law says:

    750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.
    Sec. 231a.


    (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.

    (b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.

    (c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.

    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

    (2) As used in this section:

    (a) "Antique firearm" means either of the following:

    (i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.

    (ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

    (b) "Lawful purpose" includes the following:

    (i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.

    (ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair.

    (iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.

    (iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency or for the purpose of having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon.

    (v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or sale.

    (vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

    (vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.



    The last statement of lawful purpose should be enough to cover transport with intent to OC. However, this has not been to court so it would be wise to not answer any questions asked of you by police as to how you transported your pistol.

    Memorize this:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/17262.html

    Hopefully this information helps out. Don't hesitate to ask more questions! (After using the search function, anyway. :P )
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  3. #3
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    You should OC now if you are very confident you know all the laws, and feel comfortable doing so. A good place to start would be a meeting set up by forum members.

    In between now and the time you turn 21, you should take the CPL class. This way you can turn in the paper work and pay the money the state wants to steal from you immediately upon turning 21.

    I suggest getting a Blackhawk Serpa for your Glock. They are the most popular with OCers for good reason.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    sbrill wrote:
    Is transporting it to a place of OC legal? How would you explain that to an LEO?

    And basically, in your opinions, shoulI carry now? or wait till I get my CPL?
    Carry now, but--as others have said--it is VERY IMPORTANT that you know the law. I join in the suggestion that your first OC should be at a gathering of other OC'ers. If not, take baby steps by startingOC'ing at one location only(start with the location you most frequently are at). Get comfortable there, then branch out to other locations one at a time, making sure you know it is legal by reading the law AGAIN and asking questions here if needed. Without a CPL, it is doubly important you are sure you are legal in a location.

    Also, without a CPL it is vitally important that you DO NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM OR GOING TO. Some LEOs wrongfully interpret the list of "lawful purposes" to be an exhaustive list. And neither should you answer questions about weapons in your car, or consent to search. Questions and recommendedresponses:

    • Question: "Where are you coming from/going to?" Answer: "I don't wish to discuss my itinerary, officer. Am I free to go?"
    • Question: "Are there weapons in the car?" Answer: "I don't wish to discuss the contents of my car, officer. Am I free to go?"
    • Question: "You don't mind if I take a look in your car, do you?" Answer: "I don't consent to any searches, officer. Am I free to go?"
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    sbrill wrote:
    Hey everyone, Im new here, but ive been readind around for awhile. Ive read alot about OC on alot of forums and I would like to give it a try. Im 20years old. I live in White Lake, or Marquette (im a full time student at NMU). Iwill be carrya Glock 23. Now since I cannot get my CPL for a year, I know that limits me in alot of ways.

    I was planning to try to OC at Walmart for the first time, I dont know why, it just seems like an easy place. But then i just read on here that if I dont have a CPL, i cant carry in any place selling alcohol. Which makes alot of stores/restaurants of limits to me. Is that true? Ive looked into the laws alot and i just didnt realize those places would be off limits. If you DO NOT have your CPL, you CANNOT carry into ANY place that sells alcohol in any form (OC or CC).

    Where would a good place be to try open carrying? The best bet would be at a picnic/lunch/dinner/gathering with other OCers. The first place I OCed into was Menard's.

    Any things you guys can think of that I should know before doing it? ANY/ALL firearm laws pertaining to the state of Michigan. Tresspass laws. And how to deal with police (don't talk, and don't allow searches). Read the thread titled WASH,RINSE,REPEAT. The link is here http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/17262.html

    I know that to transport a handgun I have to have it unloaded in the back of my truck. First, I have a pickup, can I keep it in my backseat? The best suggestion is to empty the ammo from the gun, including the loaded magazine. Place the gun and magazine in a case (preferably one you can lock) and make sure it is OUT OF REACH of ANY passangers in the vehicle at the time it is being transported. Or does it need to be in the bed? Also, i'm only supposed to have it in my truck from home to the range or woods or whateve.Some police think this is the case, but for the most part NO. You can drive from private property to private property, and businesses are considered private property. OC is a lawful purpose, so you would be covered driving from your house to a place like Best Buy. Is transporting it to a place of OC legal? How would you explain that to an LEO? You don't! Don't tell them where you are going or coming from. They can try and use that to "jam you up". They tried to do it to me when I was OCing without a CPL. Watch/listen to this audio of my police encounter to see what they try to ask you so they can charge you with a crime. Just keep your mouth shut. The 5th ammendment allows you this right. Instinct will tell you to talk, but go against that instinct.
    Video Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lz8R...eature=related

    And basically, in your opinions, shoulI carry now? or wait till I get my CPL? Having a CPL makes it easier to OC, and could make it harder for you to get into trouble for carrying, but as long as you thouroghly know the applicable laws, and how to handle police encounters, and do everything you legally need to you should be fine. This is a decision you need to make for yourself. If you aren't comfortable doing it, then DON'T do it. Sure, you will feel nervous about at first, but that goes away after a short time.

    Thank you all in advance for the help!

  6. #6
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    Michigander wrote:
    I suggest getting a Blackhawk Serpa for your Glock. They are the most popular with OCers for good reason.
    I also have a Glock 23, and I love my Blackhawk Serpa Level 2 retention holster.

  7. #7
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    Yup Blackhawk is the way to go!


    DanM wrote:
    sbrill wrote:
    Is transporting it to a place of OC legal? How would you explain that to an LEO?

    And basically, in your opinions, shoul*I carry now? or wait till I get my CPL?
    Carry now, but--as others have said--it is VERY IMPORTANT that you know the law.* I join in the suggestion that your first OC should be at a gathering of other OC'ers.* If not, take baby steps by starting*OC'ing at one location only*(start with the location you most frequently are at).* Get comfortable there, then branch out to other locations one at a time, making sure you know it is legal by reading the law AGAIN and asking questions here if needed.* Without a CPL, it is doubly important you are sure you are legal in a location.

    Also, without a CPL it is vitally important that you DO NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM OR GOING TO.* Some LEOs wrongfully interpret the list of "lawful purposes" to be an exhaustive list.* And neither should you answer questions about weapons in your car, or consent to search.* Questions and recommended*responses:

    • Question: "Where are you coming from/going to?"* Answer: "I don't wish to discuss my itinerary, officer.* Am I free to go?"
    • Question: "Are there weapons in the car?"* Answer: "I don't wish to discuss the contents of my car, officer.* Am I free to go?"
    • Question: "You don't mind if I take a look in your car, do you?"* Answer: "I don't consent to any searches, officer.* Am I free to go?"

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    Get a digital recorder and don't leave home without it if you are carrying.
    Dave
    http://www.survivalfox.com/
    "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom". - John F. Kennedy, former U.S. President

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    dfox wrote:
    Get a digital recorder and don't leave home without it if you are carrying.
    +1
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    dfox wrote:
    Get a digital recorder and don't leave home without it if you are carrying.
    +1
    +1

  11. #11
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    sbrill wrote:
    Hey everyone, Im new here, but ive been readind around for awhile. Ive read alot about OC on alot of forums and I would like to give it a try. Im 20*years old. I live in White Lake, or Marquette (im a full time student at NMU). I*will be carry*a Glock 23. Now since I cannot get my CPL for a year, I know that limits me in alot of ways.

    I was planning to try to OC at Walmart for the first time, I dont know why, it just seems like an easy place. But then i just read on here that if I dont have a CPL, i cant carry in any place selling alcohol. Which makes alot of stores/restaurants of limits to me. Is that true? Ive looked into the laws alot and i just didnt realize those places would be off limits.

    Where would a good place be to try open carrying?

    Any things you guys can think of that I should know before doing it?

    I know that to transport a handgun I have to have it unloaded in the back of my truck. First, I have a pickup, can I keep it in my backseat? Or does it need to be in the bed? Also, i'm only supposed to have it in my truck from home to the range or woods or whateve.*Is transporting it to a place of OC legal? How would you explain that to an LEO?

    And basically, in your opinions, shoul*I carry now? or wait till I get my CPL?

    Thank you all in advance for the help!
    A good place to start (MQT area) would be Gander Mountain, since they openly ALLOW OC. Menards is right there, Lowe's is across the street, neither sells alcohol. Look for signs @ the Westwood Mall, and if you don't see anything prohibiting firearms, you can go there as well.

    Otherwise, there is Presque Isle park, and River Park (Hawley st, off of Lakeshore) if you'd rather spend your time in the sticks like I do.
    Rand Paul 2016

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    one more thing.......

    if you don't have a cpl, the pistol doesn't just need to be out of reach, it has to be "in a case designed for the storage of firearms"

    ie: your backpack probably does not meet this definition, but the hard plastic case you gun was in when you bought it would meet the criteria.

    Also....if you put a lock on the case before putting out of reach from any of the occupants of the vehicle, this could only help if ever dragged to court as the mcl states that it must "not be readily accessible"
    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    lapeer20m wrote:
    Also....if you put a lock on the case before putting out of reach from any of the occupants of the vehicle, this could only help if ever dragged to court as the mcl states that it must "not be readily accessible"
    It also keeps anyoe from getting to "whatever is in that case" without a key including
    people that search your vehicle.

    Also if asked "do you have any weapons in your vehicle" you can respond with"I do not wish to discuss the contents in my vehicle".

  14. #14
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Yooper wrote:
    sbrill wrote:
    Hey everyone, Im new here, but ive been readind around for awhile. Ive read alot about OC on alot of forums and I would like to give it a try. Im 20years old. I live in White Lake, or Marquette (im a full time student at NMU). Iwill be carrya Glock 23. Now since I cannot get my CPL for a year, I know that limits me in alot of ways.

    I was planning to try to OC at Walmart for the first time, I dont know why, it just seems like an easy place. But then i just read on here that if I dont have a CPL, i cant carry in any place selling alcohol. Which makes alot of stores/restaurants of limits to me. Is that true? Ive looked into the laws alot and i just didnt realize those places would be off limits.

    Where would a good place be to try open carrying?

    Any things you guys can think of that I should know before doing it?

    I know that to transport a handgun I have to have it unloaded in the back of my truck. First, I have a pickup, can I keep it in my backseat? Or does it need to be in the bed? Also, i'm only supposed to have it in my truck from home to the range or woods or whateve.Is transporting it to a place of OC legal? How would you explain that to an LEO?

    And basically, in your opinions, shoulI carry now? or wait till I get my CPL?

    Thank you all in advance for the help!
    A good place to start (MQT area) would be Gander Mountain, since they openly ALLOW OC. Menards is right there, Lowe's is across the street, neither sells alcohol. Look for signs @ the Westwood Mall, and if you don't see anything prohibiting firearms, you can go there as well.

    Otherwise, there is Presque Isle park, and River Park (Hawley st, off of Lakeshore) if you'd rather spend your time in the sticks like I do.
    As for the red, be careful at malls.
    Malls sometimes have liquor licenses. Just because you are in a GameStop or a Sears, a determined LEO might just try and say you were in the 'Mall' which has a liquor license because of the Red Robin at the other end of the building.

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    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    A good place to start (MQT area) would be Gander Mountain, since they openly ALLOW OC. Menards is right there, Lowe's is across the street, neither sells alcohol. Look for signs @ the Westwood Mall, and if you don't see anything prohibiting firearms, you can go there as well.

    Otherwise, there is Presque Isle park, and River Park (Hawley st, off of Lakeshore) if you'd rather spend your time in the sticks like I do.As for the red, be careful at malls.
    Malls sometimes have liquor licenses. Just because you are in a GameStop or a Sears, a determined LEO might just try and say you were in the 'Mall' which has a liquor license because of the Red Robin at the other end of the building.
    That and most malls seem to dislike OC and CC (you usually have to read the malls "rules/Code f Conduct to find out if they proibit firearms. Good luck finding those at times), so police may be more likely to be called by mall security.

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    wardog6d wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    dfox wrote:
    Get a digital recorder and don't leave home without it if you are carrying.
    +1
    +1
    +3

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    T Vance wrote:
    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    A good place to start (MQT area) would be Gander Mountain, since they openly ALLOW OC. Menards is right there, Lowe's is across the street, neither sells alcohol. Look for signs @ the Westwood Mall, and if you don't see anything prohibiting firearms, you can go there as well.

    Otherwise, there is Presque Isle park, and River Park (Hawley st, off of Lakeshore) if you'd rather spend your time in the sticks like I do.As for the red, be careful at malls.
    Malls sometimes have liquor licenses. Just because you are in a GameStop or a Sears, a determined LEO might just try and say you were in the 'Mall' which has a liquor license because of the Red Robin at the other end of the building.
    That and most malls seem to dislike OC and CC (you usually have to read the malls "rules/Code f Conduct to find out if they proibit firearms. Good luck finding those at times), so police may be more likely to be called by mall security.
    I OC at Great Lakes all the time. I spoke with Sgt. Matthew Karenko, head of security, and an Auburn Hills police officer while I was there the other day, and they had no problem with it. Matthew told me that their policy was that they had no policy. If a customer complains, they will come ask me to conceal, or put it in my car if I had no CPL. They handle this as a case by case basis. I asked if they asked me to leave on one day, if I could return on another day with it, and he assured me that I could.

    As far as I know, places like gameworks who sell alcohol have their own liquor licenses, all the mall does is rents the property to places like gameworks, and Ruby Tuesdays, and does not therefore, haveits own license. If you OC at the mall without a CPL you MUST NOT go into those specific buisinesses who sell alcohol.

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    stainless1911 wrote:
    I OC at Great Lakes all the time. I spoke with Sgt. Matthew Karenko, head of security, and an Auburn Hills police officer while I was there the other day, and they had no problem with it. Matthew told me that their policy was that they had no policy. If a customer complains, they will come ask me to conceal, or put it in my car if I had no CPL. They handle this as a case by case basis. I asked if they asked me to leave on one day, if I could return on another day with it, and he assured me that I could.
    eah, that's one of the few that will let you. The 2 malls in Jackson forbid CC and OC. Fairlane mall has an issue with it too, especially if you're going there to buy socks.

  19. #19
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Generaldet wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    dfox wrote:
    Get a digital recorder and don't leave home without it if you are carrying.
    +1
    +1
    +3
    +4. I carry an Olympus WS-321M and highly recommend it, if you're looking for specific recommendations.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  20. #20
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    T Vance wrote:
    That and most malls seem to dislike OC and CC (you usually have to read the malls "rules/Code f Conduct to find out if they proibit firearms. Good luck finding those at times), so police may be more likely to be called by mall security.
    LOL...this is the U.P. We don't have mall security.

    He could always go to the Copper Country Mall in Houghton. You could OC naked while running around screaming like a crazed lunatic and be fine, since there's nobody there to call you in.
    Rand Paul 2016

  21. #21
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    Yooper wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    That and most malls seem to dislike OC and CC (you usually have to read the malls "rules/Code f Conduct to find out if they proibit firearms. Good luck finding those at times), so police may be more likely to be called by mall security.
    LOL...this is the U.P. We don't have mall security.

    He could always go to the Copper Country Mall in Houghton. You could OC naked while running around screaming like a crazed lunatic and be fine, since there's nobody there to call you in.
    Some people here might do that...:what:
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

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  22. #22
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    on a side note, Wash Rinse Repeat even works in every situation, gun related or not:

    (While waiting in line, I overhear a conversation between a teenager and a police officer, both of whom are also waiting. The boy has red plastic cups and ping pong balls in hand.)
    Officer: “Can I ask what those are for?”
    Teenage customer: “No, no questions.”
    Officer: “Where’s the party?”
    Teenage customer: “No parties.”
    (The kid checks out, and as he’s walking out the door yells “SODA PONG!” and flicks his wrist.)
    Officer, to me: “Yeah, I’ll get the call in a couple hours.”


  23. #23
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    Post imported post

    Yooper wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    That and most malls seem to dislike OC and CC (you usually have to read the malls "rules/Code f Conduct to find out if they proibit firearms. Good luck finding those at times), so police may be more likely to be called by mall security.
    LOL...this is the U.P. We don't have mall security.

    He could always go to the Copper Country Mall in Houghton. You could OC naked while running around screaming like a crazed lunatic and be fine, since there's nobody there to call you in.
    Now that you mention it, I don't think I recall seeing any security at the Alpena mall either.


  24. #24
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    on a side note, Wash Rinse Repeat even works in every situation, gun related or not:

    (While waiting in line, I overhear a conversation between a teenager and a police officer, both of whom are also waiting. The boy has red plastic cups and ping pong balls in hand.)
    Officer: “Can I ask what those are for?”
    Teenage customer: “No, no questions.”
    Officer: “Where’s the party?”
    Teenage customer: “No parties.”
    (The kid checks out, and as he’s walking out the door yells “SODA PONG!” and flicks his wrist.)
    Officer, to me: “Yeah, I’ll get the call in a couple hours.”
    ROFL!
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

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