Quick questions regarding Nevada pistol laws

onlurker · Feb 10, 2010

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I was looking through the Nevada OC pamphlet (thank you Felid`Maximus for putting that together) as well as perusing the state forum and I see that it is mentioned frequently that loaded carry in the car (so long as it's not on your person) in Nevada is perfectly legal without a permit. I tried looking through the Nevada code and I can't seem to find any applicable code on the books that says so. Is this one of those cases where there is no law against it, so it is therefore legal (like your OC laws)?

Something that I've wondered about your concealed carry laws regarding "on your person" is when someone without a permit needs to transfer a pistol from a place of residence to a vehicle. It is my understanding that if it is even in a bag, perhaps even an opaque pistol case being carried, then it is concealed and thus a class C felony (seems awfully strict :shock: ) if you don't have a permit. Does this only apply to loaded pistols?

One last thing. I will be visiting your great state in the latter half of April and I would like to know if Nevada has any preemption laws or if local jurisdictions are allowed to restrict firearm carry as they see fit.

Edit:
The above has been answered to my satisfaction, but I have one last question on page 3.

flagellum · Feb 10, 2010

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I learned in my CCW class that if the Weapon is in an actual case design for a gun, as in it is obvious to an observer that there might be a gun inside, you would be ok.

He told us a story of a man who had a pistol in a standard briefcase with a label "Guns enclosed" He was arrested and cited, but ultimately won his case.

Unfortunately local laws are enforced, regardless. North Las Vegas is an example of this. You cannot carry a loaded weapon in your car at anytime, unless it is on your person with a CCW. Without CCW, you cannot even have a unloaded weapon in your car without a "legitimate reason".

Vegassteve · Feb 10, 2010

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flagellum wrote:

I learned in my CCW class that if the Weapon is in an actual case design for a gun, as in it is obvious to an observer that there might be a gun inside, you would be ok.

He told us a story of a man who had a pistol in a standard briefcase with a label "Guns enclosed" He was arrested and cited, but ultimately won his case.

Unfortunately local laws are enforced, regardless. North Las Vegas is an example of this. You cannot carry a loaded weapon in your car at anytime, unless it is on your person with a CCW. Without CCW, you cannot even have a unloaded weapon in your car without a "legitimate reason".

First never rely on some story about some guy from someone else. Yes even if it is in a pistol case they could jack you up. No where in NRS does it say otherwise. CCw instructors are the worse offenders in bad info.

Second North Las Vegas laws are now null and void thanks to premption in state law. The mayor of NLV has gone as far as to state such.

A OC trash pickup was held in front of NLV police headquarters with no issues.

Vegassteve · Feb 10, 2010

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onlurker wrote:

Something that I've wondered about your concealed carry laws regarding "on your person" is when someone without a permit needs to transfer a pistol from a place of residence to a vehicle. It is my understanding that if it is even in a bag, perhaps even an opaque pistol case being carried, then it is concealed and thus a class C felony (seems awfully strict :shock: ) if you don't have a permit. Does this only apply to loaded pistols?

One last thing. I will be visiting your great state in the latter half of April and I would like to know if Nevada has any preemption laws or if local jurisdictions are allowed to restrict firearm carry as they see fit.

Concelaed of loaded or unloaded without permit is a felony. just holster it and open carry if you need to.

We have full preemption.

flagellum · Feb 10, 2010

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"Second North Las Vegas laws are now null and void thanks to premption in state law. The mayor of NLV has gone as far as to state such."

Can you link me to this?

Does this mean that all of NLV laws don't really matter? As in, could I carry loaded in my glove box in NLV?

onlurker · Feb 10, 2010

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Vegassteve wrote:

First never rely on some story about some guy from someone else. Yes even if it is in a pistol case they could jack you up. No where in NRS does it say otherwise. CCw instructors are the worse offenders in bad info.

Even if the pistol is unloaded with no ammunition easily obtainable, in a marked pistol case, and perhaps locked, that would still be considered as being "concealed" if you were to transport it on your person and subject to NRS 202.350, section #2, paragraph (b)?

Felid`Maximus · Feb 10, 2010

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You are welcome. Nevada law only restricts concealed carry upon the person. Case law and AG opinions solidify the idea that guns can be hidden in cars but not carried concealed in containers held in the hand.

A firearm is concealed if it is not discernible from ordinary observation. Access to ammunition, or locking the container is irrelevant under the language of the law and no case law that I am aware of make it relevant either. If the container is labeled as containing a firearm that might help make it discernible as a firearm but does it really make it discernible from ordinary observation?

Carrying openly and loaded is legal. Concealed, locked, and unloaded is a felony.

Definition of concealed weapon in NV(202.350):

(a) “Concealed weapon” means a weapon described in this section that is carried upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation.

Definition of concealed firearm in NV(202.3653):

As used in NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, unless the context otherwise requires:
1. “Concealed firearm” means a loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver or other firearm which is carried upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation.

Although 202.350 is before 202.3653, it makes no exceptions for unloaded firearms. If they intended to exclude unloaded firearms from 202.350 they probably would have wrote an exception into the law. In the case of 202.3653-202.369 it is apparent that unloaded firearms are specifically intended to be equally regulated by those sections.

See this thread for some info about carry in vehicles and containers: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum36/25163.html

onlurker · Feb 11, 2010

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Thanks Felid for the link. If I'm understanding 202.3653 correctly, loaded or unloaded and locked or unlocked doesn't matter as long as the carry case is easily distinguished as being one that has a firearm inside, and therefore legal. So I should be ok to to transport my pistol in it's original pistol case then.

Would you happen to know more if NV has any state preemption or if local jurisdictions are allowed to set their own rules governing firearm carry, transportation, etc?

timf343 · Feb 11, 2010

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NRS 244.364 - county preemption
NRS 268.418 - city preemption
NRS 269.222 - town preemption

No municipal government in Nevada may create or enforce laws related to the possession or transportation of firearms or ammunition, except for the following:

Clark County may require pistols be registered
Counties, Cities, and Townships are permitted to regulate the unlawful discharge of firearms.

Felid`Maximus · Feb 11, 2010

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Here is the text in 268.418
http://leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-268.html#NRS268Sec418

NRS 268.418 Limited authority to regulate firearms; restrictions concerning registration of firearms in city in county whose population is 400,000 or more.
1. Except as otherwise provided by specific statute, the Legislature reserves for itself such rights and powers as are necessary to regulate the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transportation, registration and licensing of firearms and ammunition in Nevada, and no city may infringe upon those rights and powers. As used in this subsection, “firearm” means any weapon from which a projectile is discharged by means of an explosive, spring, gas, air or other force.
2. The governing body of a city may proscribe by ordinance or regulation the unsafe discharge of firearms.
3. If the governing body of a city in a county whose population is 400,000 or more has required by ordinance or regulation adopted before June 13, 1989, the registration of a firearm capable of being concealed, the governing body shall amend such an ordinance or regulation to require:
(a) A period of at least 60 days of residency in the city before registration of such a firearm is required.
(b) A period of at least 72 hours for the registration of a pistol by a resident of the city upon transfer of title to the pistol to the resident by purchase, gift or any other transfer.
4. Except as otherwise provided in subsection 1, as used in this section:
(a) “Firearm” means any device designed to be used as a weapon from which a projectile may be expelled through the barrel by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion.
(b) “Firearm capable of being concealed” includes all firearms having a barrel less than 12 inches in length.
(c) “Pistol” means a firearm capable of being concealed that is intended to be aimed and fired with one hand.
(Added to NRS by 1989, 652; A 2007, 1289)

Some localities voluntarily removed their local ordinances to conform with this law, while others claim that this law does not restrict their ability to regulate things. Thus far I am not aware of any successful prosecutions of people for violating the local laws after the enactment, nor have I heard of anyone using the preemption law to their successful defense in a court of law.

onlurker · Feb 11, 2010

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Thanks everyone for the info so far. Sounds like I won't have to worry too much about local laws then.

One last question regarding vehicle carry. I understand the laws are rather ambiguous and no one has ever been told a firm answer on it, but I was wondering if non-concealed holster carry while in a vehicle is legal without a permit. Does this fall into the realm of "such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation," or is it so ambiguous as to be up to the officer's discretion?

Dangerfish · Feb 11, 2010

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WORRY about North Town, even Metro canscrew you over and charge you with disturbing the peace or something. All depends on how much of an @sshole the officer wants to be, and how much you are to them.

onlurker · Feb 11, 2010

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I'll only be traveling through North Las Vegas via my personal vehicle, and my time will most likely be spent on the strip.

Vegassteve · Feb 11, 2010

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Dangerfish wrote:

WORRY about North Town, even Metro canscrew you over and charge you with disturbing the peace or something. All depends on how much of an @sshole the officer wants to be, and how much you are to them.

Where do you come up with this BS? We have one guy on here, Tim who was hasseled ONE time. Since then there have been OC outings all over town, the sherrif has even stated his officers have had OC training. Please show me a instance of a OC in Las Vegas being arrested for disturbing the peace.

Sabotage70 · Feb 11, 2010

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We didn't have any problems when we went down to the strip. The tourist didn't go running fear. The cops seen us and did nothing. So come on down and open carry. No permit needed.:monkey

gmijackso · Feb 12, 2010

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Felid`Maximus wrote:

Case law and AG opinions solidify the idea that guns can be hidden in cars but not carried concealed in containers held in the hand.

A firearm is concealed if it is not discernible from ordinary observation. Access to ammunition, or locking the container is irrelevant under the language of the law and no case law that I am aware of make it relevant either.
...
Carrying openly and loaded is legal. Concealed, locked, and unloaded is a felony.

I agree fully with the statement, and the language of the law, but pondered this on my way home this evening. I recently purchased a gun online. In order for me to get the gun, it was shipped UPS to the FFL. This means it was shipped in a box. Now, in order for the weapon to get from the truck to the FFL, it was carried by a person. Likewise, in order for me to get from the FFL to my truck and then to my home, it was carried by me. Now since it was in a box, and not discernible by ordinary observation, it was technically concealed all those times. BUT I had no ammo, and was obviously never a risk.

I know the world is never fair, but I think if a case were ever made for unlawful concealment, when the weapon is being transported in a case/box of some sort, unloaded, sealed/locked, that there would be plenty of other examples of similar or same action that wouldn't be considered unlawful concealment.

wrightme · Feb 12, 2010

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If placing a gun case with an unloaded firearm inside it into a vehicle were a Felony, then LE would simply set up shop outside of shooting ranges and gun shows.

MOST of Nevada follows the standard of
"If there is no law against an action, that action is not illegal."

1. “Concealed firearm” means a loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver or other firearm which is carried upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation.

gmijackso · Feb 12, 2010

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wrightme wrote:

If placing a gun case with an unloaded firearm inside it into a vehicle were a Felony, then LE would simply set up shop outside of shooting ranges and gun shows.

MOST of Nevada follows the standard of
"If there is no law against an action, that action is not illegal."

1. “Concealed firearm” means a loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver or other firearm which is carried upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation.

You just made a case for and against in that statement. Yes I understand that "if there is no law against, then it's not illegal" BUT as you stated "loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver or other firearm which is carried upon a person in such a manner as not be discernible by ordinary observation"

Unloaded, in a box, carried in a hand. It is not discernible by ordinary observation as it is in a box. It is upon a person as it is in a hand. Therefore, it is by letter of the law a "Concealed firearm".

wrightme · Feb 12, 2010

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gmijackso wrote:

wrightme wrote:

If placing a gun case with an unloaded firearm inside it into a vehicle were a Felony, then LE would simply set up shop outside of shooting ranges and gun shows.

MOST of Nevada follows the standard of
"If there is no law against an action, that action is not illegal."

1. “Concealed firearm” means a loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver or other firearm which is carried upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation.

Click to expand...

You just made a case for and against in that statement. Yes I understand that "if there is no law against, then it's not illegal" BUT as you stated "loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver or other firearm which is carried upon a person in such a manner as not be discernible by ordinary observation"

Unloaded, in a box, carried in a hand. It is not discernible by ordinary observation as it is in a box. It is upon a person as it is in a hand. Therefore, it is by letter of the law a "Concealed firearm".

I do not believe so.
A cased firearm is not "concealed upon the person, AFAIK."

What do you expect people to do? Open the box or gun case to unconceal a firearm, carry it and the case to a house, shop or shooting range, THEN recase it?

I do not think your interpretation is a rational view of it.

wrightme · Feb 12, 2010

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Examples:

IWB holster with untucked shirt. Concealed.

OWB holster with tucked shirt. Not concealed.

In a purse. Concealed

In a briefcase. Concealed.

If you wear it, it can be concealed.

What do you do if you purchase a firearm at a gun store? Walk out with the gun in one hand and its box in the other? :?
Common sense can prevail in Nevada. We do not typically need to drive from county to city, or from private property to public and move ammo from guns, move guns to locked case separate from ammo, circle the car three times with our arms raised for the cameras........

If it is a rifle or shotgun, do not have a round chambered.
If it is a pistol, use common sense and follow the letter of the NRS. Use extra caution in Clark County, which does appear to be gaining a little common sense.

I walk my dog Open Carry. I drive my car Open or Concealed Carry. In the car, the trunk is the typical place for boxed or cased firearms. In the van, there is no trunk, so it has to be in the passenger area if not on my person.

Quick questions regarding Nevada pistol laws

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