Another Shooting Area Soon To be Gone

[amlevin]

I was shooting this afternoon at the Sultan Pit when a reporter from the Everett Herald showed up. He interviewed several who were shooting there. His story is on the proposed closing of the pit to shooting. Seems that the DNR and Snohomish County are making some land swaps and the "pit" will become County property. Next Wednesday the Council is meeting to discuss closing the pit to all shooting.

My question to the reporter was "why is the County considering closing this area before they provide an alternative area for sport shooters. Seems like they like to collect the sales taxes on Guns and Ammunition but aren't willing to provide areas for shooting recreation. They don't see that forcing everyone from this pit they will encourage shooters to seek other areas. Areas that are less safe than the "pit".

Anyone wanting to voice their opinion should consider attending next Wednesday's meeting.

Isn't it nice how our Snohomish County Government treats us. We send them money and they give us nothing. Same as with the ORV/ATV folks. Close another area without opening an alternative. Keep on collecting the fees and taxes though.

Unless there is a big outcry the "pit" will no doubt be closed by summer.

Has anyone else read anything about this action? If it weren't for the reporter mentioning it this action would be another big SURPRISE for everyone and no public input from those impacted.

[rickomatic]

Did the reporter elaborate on what the land swap was for?
Snohomish County has been working towards a new multi purpose shooting range in the Sultan Basin for several years to be operated by the Snohomish County Parks Department. Last I checked, perhaps 6 months ago, all that was being waited on was, of course funding, and the finalization of the land swap with the DNR. Maybe this is finally startng to happen? I'll see if I can find out any more info.

[deanf]

but aren't willing to provide areas for shooting recreation.

Not a legitimate function of any government.

[amlevin]

deanf wrote:

but aren't willing to provide areas for shooting recreation.

Not a legitimate function of any government.

Perhaps not. Considering that they provide picnic areas, swimming areas, bicycle paths, horse paths, hiking paths, what's wrong with sport shooting areas? Are only those that are politically correct the only allowable sports that receive County support?

As for shooting, they aren't interested in approving public shooting ranges that are privately operated, at least not so one would notice.



As for the land swap being the basis for opening a shooting facility in the area, hopefully similar to the Plantation Range in Whatcom County, why close the pit before the range is open. All the more incentive for THEM to get with it and get the facility ready and THEN close the pit.

Who knows, maybe there are some Homeland Security funds avalable. Teach everyone how to shoot and defend this country.

[deanf]

Considering that they provide picnic areas, swimming areas, bicycle paths, horse paths, hiking paths,

Not legitimate functions of any government.

[amlevin]

deanf wrote:

Considering that they provide picnic areas, swimming areas, bicycle paths, horse paths, hiking paths,

Not legitimate functions of any government.

If it is not, do you have anything to offer except repeated posts?

[diesel556]

deanf wrote:

Not legitimate functions of any government.

It is not a legitimate function of any government to prohibit the safe discharge of firearms on publicly owned rural property; barring the existence of reasonable conditions preventing such.

[sudden valley gunner]

Shutting it down may be preempted. But of course I am not a lawyer and wish shooters wouldnt make a huge mess. Than on the other hand at least the mess is contained in one area.

http://www.atg.wa.gov/AGOOpinions/Opinion.aspx?section=archive&id=21188

None are functions of government to provide yet they collect taxes. Maybe we should stop paying those taxes for those non legitimate functions.

[rickomatic]

Not legitimate functions of any government.

Is there something in the WA State Constitution that prohibits counties from doing this? Unless there is some codified prohibition to this kind of thing in our state Constitution, simply saying "Not legitimate functions of any government" does not make it so. It only makes it your opinion.

I have sent an email to the Snohomish Count Parks department askikng for an update on the Sultan Basin Shooting range project. I'll post their reply when I get it.

[deanf]

Well you either support limited government, or you don't. You can't say you support limited government "except when it comes to the field my daughter plays soccer on" or "the place the county provides for shooters."

Government's got no business providing entertainment venues or places for people to engage in their favorite hobby.

Provide was the word used, twice, by the original poster. This usage of provide implies a much different situation than the county merely not prohibiting shooting at the spot.

I thought there were a lot more limited-government types on this board. I guess I was wrong.

[FunkTrooper]

^^^+1000

The real problem we have is prohibition anyway it seems it's too inconvenient to open your own shooting range since you have so many permits and licenses that need to be approved that I doubt you could even get passed a zoning board unless you were the government.

[Richard6218]

deanf wrote:

Well you either support limited government, or you don't. You can't say you support limited government "except when it comes to the field my daughter plays soccer on" or "the place the county provides for shooters."

Government's got no business providing entertainment venues or places for people to engage in their favorite hobby.

Provide was the word used, twice, by the original poster. This usage of provide implies a much different situation than the county merely not prohibiting shooting at the spot.

I thought there were a lot more limited-government types on this board. I guess I was wrong.

Dean is absolutely, unalterably correct in his statement. This is about the proper role of government and this extends to the whole concept of the "nanny state" providing this and that, and everything people can dream up. This is where the Progressives have trapped so many into thinking that government is the solution to all social problems. WRONG WRONG WRONG We have gotten ourselves into this fiscal mess because every special interest has their own agenda and too many have been successful in convincing government to go along with their programs. We need to get government out of our lives, even if it means not asking it to provide us with a safe area to shoot.

[sudden valley gunner]

Yes I agree with Dean and Richard on this one too. And why I wish they would stop charging us taxes for things.

[Richard6218]

sudden valley gunner wrote:

Yes I agree with Dean and Richard on this one too. And why I wish they would stop charging us taxes for things.

The power to tax is the power to destroy.

A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.

[rickomatic]

For those of you who are interested in what is going on with the Sultan Basin Shooting range project, below is the response I just got back from the county.
Those who don't believe this is something our "local" government has any business doing with our tax dollars, don't bother reading it.
By the way, if you do read it you will see that they are looking for "grants" to help fund it. Do the naysayers here also have a problem with public/private partnership?

Dear Mr. Harris, Thank you for your interest in the future Snohomish County Shooting Range. Reconveyance of the property on the Sultan Basin Road for the shooting range from the Washington State Department of Natural Resources has been an extended process. The County has provided all of the information that the DNR has requested including feasibility studies, environmental reviews, studies related to endangered species and more. Parks has participated with the DNR in a public meeting that the DNR had in Sultan. The DNR has provided the County with an agreement that will finish the process and lead to a presentation to the DNR Board and their final action. That agreement is pending action by the County Council and should be addressed in the next couple of weeks. The DNR has said that they hope to get on their Board’s agenda soon after that. That will get the reconveyance completed and get the property into Parks inventory. The next part of the process is design and engineering. That will take financial resources that we do not have at this time. The recession has severely limited local funding. We will look for grants and try to get the project moving. We expect to have a lot of public participation in the design process. If you would please get me your street address (I’ll save your e-mail address) I will put you on our mailing list. As things move forward Parks will keep interested citizens informed through newsletters and occasional public meetings.
Thank you for your interest and participation.

Marc Krandel Planning Supervisor
Snohomish County Department of Parks and Recreation
6705 Puget Park Drive
Snohomish, WA 98296
425-388-6621
krandel@snoco.org

[coyote]

From what I have been told the Sultan shooting pit is closed on Feb 17. I was told it was people living close to the shooting pit that complained about the noise and the fact they could not ride their horses around the pit with shooting going on that prompted DNR to close it to shooting. I also saw a flier that said all target shooting on DNR land in the Sultan basinwas prohibited except lawful hunting. There was some fines, I think around $500, and confiscation of guns if caught target shooting in the Sultan basin. I don't know how much weight this notice carried but I did see it.

I also know that the watershed patrolman for the City of Everett that patrols the Sultan basin and is not allowed to carry a gun is about as anti gun as you can get and he will call the sheriff if he sees shooting. He is an idiot and a hypocrit. I know he drives by this pit sometimes as well as up to Spada lake. He doesn't carry much weight but thinks he does.

We need someplace new to shoot and I hope they get something going soon.

[Trigger Dr]

People in that area need to file a complaint that they can't shoot because of others riding their horses there.

[Washintonian_For_Liberty]

deanf wrote:

but aren't willing to provide areas for shooting recreation.

Not a legitimate function of any government.

90% of what they do isn't legitimate... but that hasn't stopped them so far has it?

[Washintonian_For_Liberty]

Richard6218 wrote:

deanf wrote:

Well you either support limited government, or you don't. You can't say you support limited government "except when it comes to the field my daughter plays soccer on" or "the place the county provides for shooters."

Government's got no business providing entertainment venues or places for people to engage in their favorite hobby.

Provide was the word used, twice, by the original poster. This usage of provide implies a much different situation than the county merely not prohibiting shooting at the spot.

I thought there were a lot more limited-government types on this board. I guess I was wrong.

Dean is absolutely, unalterably correct in his statement. This is about the proper role of government and this extends to the whole concept of the "nanny state" providing this and that, and everything people can dream up. This is where the Progressives have trapped so many into thinking that government is the solution to all social problems. WRONG WRONG WRONG We have gotten ourselves into this fiscal mess because every special interest has their own agenda and too many have been successful in convincing government to go along with their programs. We need to get government out of our lives, even if it means not asking it to provide us with a safe area to shoot.

So, just as they have no business offering us a safe place to shoot... they equally have no business blocking us from shooting on land that has been acquired by government... because then it should be 100% subject to the Constitution of the US... I want complete limited government... one that owns NO LAND... It shouldn't be legal for the government to own land.... that's just wrong and it leads to some serious problems.

[amlevin]

sudden valley gunner wrote:

Shutting it down may be preempted. But of course I am not a lawyer and wish shooters wouldnt make a huge mess. Than on the other hand at least the mess is contained in one area.

http://www.atg.wa.gov/AGOOpinions/Opinion.aspx?section=archive&id=21188

None are functions of government to provide yet they collect taxes. Maybe we should stop paying those taxes for those non legitimate functions.

Actually, regulation of where one may discharge firearms IS allowed in the "preemption" statute.

Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter.

(2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

(a) Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized.

In the case of the "Sultan Pit" it would appear that they will invoke the "reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized" clause.

Closing this pit for target shooting will no doubt bring about those "unintended consequences" that government is always overlooking.

Rather than shooting in the pit, people will be forced to seek other areas, many of which are far less safe. Just about any unposted piece of property on county back roads now becomes "fair game". Wonder how that will work out?

FWIW, there was an interesting letter to the Editor this AM in the Everett Herald. It referred to the closure of the Reiter Pit area to ORV/ATV'ers. Part of the complaints there were based on the trash that was left there and they blamed the "riders". Since the area had been closed since November of last year, it appears that there is still a trash problem. It seems that most of the trash was being left by "locals" but the "riders" were getting the blame.

Call me a pessimist but I seriously doubt that anything will ever come about when it comes to a Sultan Basin shooting area. I have been hearing these promises for years and it always comes down to it being a low priority or no funding available for the "next step"

Perhaps Snohomish county should look at what IS available. WFW has a grant program and only entitiesLIKE Snohomish County are eligible.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/shooting_...ge_grants.html

Since Government has all the control they need to do one thing or another. Either get off the "pot" and do something on their own or loosen all the myriad of regulations for those that would like to do something.

Skagit County has been blocking a range there for years and a private entity that tried to open one last year has given up, postponing their facility indefinitly.

Message to Snohomish County--Lead, Follow, or just Get Out Of the WAY. Preferrably the first or the last.


From an article published in 2004-

"If we can't go up there, people are going to be shooting somewhere more dangerous closer to town," said Rowe, who supported building a county-owned gun range in the area for recreational shooters and law enforcement officers. But the range was never funded.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/15762...anshoot22.html

As for the County's needing to find funds for design and engineering, why not start with what is already available?

http://www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/sourcebook.asp

Seems like the NRA has all this ready to go with the exception of where to bulldoze the berms and landscaping. Of course this won't do much to support the favored engineering firm that will no doubt charge the county a few million for the same service. Using something "Off the Shelf" just isn't the Government Way.

[gtparlette]

I was up there last night and there were some people passing outinfo for the meeting on the 17th. I have talk with some people that shoot there more frequently. And a major nail in the coffin for sultan basin was some people were out there with suppressor and Tannerite.