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Thread: I want to open carry but....

  1. #1
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    I posted this in ohioCCW.org as well, but what to see what responses I get from a more OC aimed site.

    I want to open carry but I am afraid that if I walk into an establishment while open carrying, they will protest and tell me to leave. Now that's totally their choice and right to do. But I don't want to create even more CPZs. Is it better to CC than OC in the aspect of the business not knowing you are armed so you can continue to carry there? What they don't know won't hurt them right? But what they do know could hurt us? Make sense? Thoughts?

    PS I don't want this to become a tactical advantages/disadvantages of OC v. CC. Only on the businesses point of view on a armed citizen. Thanks.

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    If I'm asked to leave (or know it's somewhere that isn't OC friendly) then I leave and make sure not to OC there again. (Costco and malls come to mind) I had the same fears before I started carrying openly. It's really not that big of a deal. The more confident you act the less likely you are to get questioned.

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    I think it's going to depend on your geo-political location. Where I live (very rural)it is a non-issue, haven't had a negative encounter yet. In fact, most of the localbusiness owners I've dealt with are carriers themselves.

    In states where OC doesn't require a permit and you don't have a CC permit, a business that doesn't want OC in their establishment could pose a problem. Most businesses would be hard pressed to try to enforce a "No Firearms" policy against CC, unless they want to go to the expense of manned metal detectors at every entrance. Because of this, here in TN, most businesses know they can't enforce a total gun ban in their stores. Since we have to have a Handgun Carry Permit (HCP) to CC or OC, they'll most likely just ask you to cover up. I haven't been asked to do that, yet.

    Where are you at.

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    Regular Member BUBB4H's Avatar
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    In my year or so of open carrying I have yet to be asked to leave any establishment. I'm in northern virginia, so that may be why. But I've carried in Walmart, Home Depot, BJ's, Olive Garden, Red Robin, Carrabba's, Zales jewelry store, etc. etc. and too many grocery stores to count. Of course, Starbucks.Never a bad encounter. Most anytime people ask they may be surprised to find out it's legal, but no one freaks out about it. Mostly just curiousity. After a week or so it just becomes like a blackberry. Just there. You stop worrying about it. And the more confident and less self conscious you are about it, the less likely someone will think it's out of place.

    Now I don't carry in a thigh rig or carry a wheel gun in a cross draw or anything. Short black compact in a short black holster. Neat appearance that people are used to seeing. That may be another difference.

  5. #5
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    i will probably be chastized, but i am weak, i don't go many places anymore, since there's no where realy to go i haven't been, and the economy makes me stay home more. but the places i do go, i've decided to soften them by winning their hearts and minds, before i appear there with my firearm in tow. i have a rapport with them since i spend money there, so i do a little p.r., some saturation bombing so to speak, i give them the flyers to read, then return to ask if it's ok with them. i know, i know, one shouldn't ask, but i want to get along with these businesses, and avoid the toss out. plus if figure one i've asked, and gotten permission, others can come through easily. gain ground an inch at a time. this gives the business owner the opportunity to see that an open carrier isn't a freak, and his money spends there, or at another place if that business says no.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    BUBB4H wrote:
    In my year or so of open carrying I have yet to be asked to leave any establishment. I'm in northern virginia, so that may be why. But I've carried in Walmart, Home Depot, BJ's, Olive Garden, Red Robin, Carrabba's, Zales jewelry store, etc. etc. and too many grocery stores to count. Of course, Starbucks.Never a bad encounter. Most anytime people ask they may be surprised to find out it's legal, but no one freaks out about it. Mostly just curiousity. After a week or so it just becomes like a blackberry. Just there. You stop worrying about it. And the more confident and less self conscious you are about it, the less likely someone will think it's out of place.

    Now I don't carry in a thigh rig or carry a wheel gun in a cross draw or anything. Short black compact in a short black holster. Neat appearance that people are used to seeing. That may be another difference.
    My experiences mirror yours. I have been OC'ing for well over 2 1/2 years now, mostly in Western and central Prince William County and Fairfax, and have never had a negative encounter with a business. In those places where they have a no guns sign displayed and I need or want to go there for something and am not of a mind to relinquish my arm, I carry it concealed. My take is simple about that. My life and my well being far exceeds any no gun policy they may have. And since it is not breaking the law, I don't suffer any worries about my actions.

    But this part of Virginia is VERY gun-friendly and very accepting of OC'ers.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    I think it's going to depend on your geo-political location. Where I live (very rural)Â*it is a non-issue, haven't had a negative encounter yet. In fact, most of the localÂ*business owners I've dealt with are carriers themselves.

    In states where OC doesn't require a permit and you don't have a CC permit, a business that doesn't want OC in their establishment could pose a problem. Most businesses would be hard pressed to try to enforce a "No Firearms" policy against CC, unless they want to go to the expense of manned metal detectors at every entrance. Because of this, here in TN, most businesses know they can't enforce a total gun ban in their stores. Since we have to have a Handgun Carry Permit (HCP) to CC or OC, they'll most likely just ask you to cover up. I haven't been asked to do that, yet.

    Where are you at.
    Central Ohio. Sorry that wasn't in my profile, fixed now.

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    Be proud about standing up for your rights.

    And dont CC, it makes you look like a criminal.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I OC because that is the only way I can carry in WI. Even if I could CC I would prefer to OC 99% of the time (I would only cover up if it is raining or snowing and even then it would just be my coat).
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member Ruger's Avatar
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    stainless1911 wrote:
    And dont CC, it makes you look like a criminal.
    What makes you say that?
    Carry on!

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    Because, only a criminal would need to hide their guns, like they hide whatever it is they are doing. Any law abiding free citizen should be proudly advocating and promoting A2. There is no great "tactical advantage" to CC. Therefore, it is counterproductive to do so. We need to change the perception of the public and the police from seeing a gun negatively, into the perception that we have nothing to hide. Legal OC gun owners and police are doing nothing to hide, so we dont . Criminals are trying to get away with something, therefore they hide, they conceal. I would like people to only get upset when someone is concealing, with the first thoughts being suspicion about what are they up to that they need to be hiding their gun.

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    Im from around Toledo, Oh. Right next to it is Oregon, OH where we get this fun video of a person being arrested for obeying the law but causing panic because the police got a man with a gun call. Funny isn't it that on just about every fourm I have read lately they clearly say "Ignorance to the Law is NO EXCUSE" well that seems true for a citizen but not from LEOs.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LoXiZO6G6g

    Also, found out about this one, it was MI where they little nicer about gun laws(but still ignorant)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ozfXUa9wWY


    Some stuff for you to consider, GET YOUR License to carry concealed because having bullets in your magazine counts as a loaded gun even if it is separated from the gun, I will look up ORC later. But watch both videos a bit, and you will notice ILLEGAL stops because they really had no reason to stop either person and furthermore they start looking for ANYTHING they actually might be able to charge them with. (although for the second video link I posted they have a part 2)

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    BUBB4H wrote:
    Most anytime people ask they may be surprised to find out it's legal, but no one freaks out about it. Mostly just curiousity. After a week or so it just becomes like a blackberry. Just there. You stop worrying about it. And the more confident and less self conscious you are about it, the less likely someone will think it's out of place.

    Now I don't carry in a thigh rig or carry a wheel gun in a cross draw or anything. Short black compact in a short black holster. Neat appearance that people are used to seeing. That may be another difference.
    Absolutely right. Act confident, look neat and people will look past the firearm. The blackberry comment is appropriate too in the sense that these days, people almost expect to see something on everybody's hip. Cellphone, PDA, etc.. so a firearm doesn't get the immediate reaction it may have once received. A black auto in a black holster becomes almost invisible when seen from the front if you expect to see a cellphone case there.
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.

  14. #14
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    stainless1911 wrote:
    Because, only a criminal would need to hide their guns, like they hide whatever it is they are doing. Any law abiding free citizen should be proudly advocating and promoting A2. There is no great "tactical advantage" to CC. Therefore, it is counterproductive to do so. We need to change the perception of the public and the police from seeing a gun negatively, into the perception that we have nothing to hide. Legal OC gun owners and police are doing nothing to hide, so we dont . Criminals are trying to get away with something, therefore they hide, they conceal. I would like people to only get upset when someone is concealing, with the first thoughts being suspicion about what are they up to that they need to be hiding their gun.
    I understand your point, and, in principle, I agree. In a more ideal society no one would be offended at the idea of someone carrying a gun... Of course, in a more ideal society there would be no need to carry a gun, and we know that will never happen. That being said, I have applied for my CCW permit as there are situations in which CC may be preferable. Two situations come to mind for me personally:

    1. The security director at my church (retired LEO) has asked me to not OC at church. He agrees with my reasoning for OC & has no problem with it personally, but not everyone shares our opinion/beliefs on the subject. Apparently church leadership has no problem with folks lawfully CC'ing, but would rather not have people OC'ing. For me, this is not a hill to die on. This is not sufficient grounds for me to look for a different church. I have agreed to abide by the wishes of the church leaders. Better to CC than to not carry at all.

    2. Though many of my friends and family members understand & support my decision to OC, I do have friends & family members who do not share my enthusiasm for 2A issues. It would be disrespectful of me to knowingly enter the home of such a person while OC'ing. Again, better to CC than to not carry at all.I would rather not be unarmed just to appease someone else if I can help it, and I would rather be discreetly armed than to damage/ruin a relationship by openly imposing my views/beliefs upon someone who disagrees while in their own home. This is a situation in which what they don't know won't hurt them, I believe. I can CC, and I am (somewhat) happy because I am still armed, and the interpersonal conflict can be avoided.

    Unfortunately we cannot always get people to see things our way, and thereforecompromise must occur. If I could change people's minds about 2A/OC I would, but "change" doesn't always happen as quickly or easily as we would like - just ask aliberal
    Carry on!

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    Ruger wrote:
    snip.....

    In a more ideal society no one would be offended at the idea of someone carrying a gun... Of course, in a more ideal society there would be no need to carry a gun, and we know that will never happen.
    IMHO in an ideal society all legal, honest citizens would carry, thereby reducing occurrences of unpleasant interaction. That is kinda, sorta what has happened in our country where the reduction in occurrences of defensive force are reduced and the need to continue carrying is falsely perceived as less by some.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Ruger wrote:
    snip.....

    In a more ideal society no one would be offended at the idea of someone carrying a gun... Of course, in a more ideal society there would be no need to carry a gun, and we know that will never happen.
    IMHO in an ideal society all legal, honest citizens would carry, thereby reducing occurrences of unpleasant interaction. That is kinda, sorta what has happened in our country where the reduction in occurrences of defensive force are reduced and the need to continue carrying is falsely perceived as less by some.

    Yata hey

    I can't argue with that

    On a side note - what is this "Yata hey" in all of your posts?

    Carry on!

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Ruger wrote:
    On a side note - what is this "Yata hey" in all of your posts
    Its like a hand of friendship and its a war cry.

    It comes from the Lakota Sioux expression meaning literally "It's a great day for dying." Intended to make a statement in battle, strike fear into your enemies and willingness to accept your fate. Too, if it is a good day to die, must not it be a good day to live?

    In more common (daily) usage it is as a greeting or salutation not unlike "hello/goodbye, have a good day." Is is casual and friendly.

    The difference is easy to discern - my facial expression and the timber of my voice will tell all.

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Presentation of yourself is everything when you "open carry". As my name implies, I ALWAYS carry, every day, everywhere I go, at any time. When it's cold I wear heavier clothing so concealment is a given. When it's hot here in Georgia where I live, I carry openly. I always act in a professional manner. I walk tall and proud without being arrogant. My appearance is important to me. I have had facial hair most of my adult life. I usually have a full beard or a mustache/goatee. I like to switch it up. Either way, the unshaven areas of my face are always clean shaven, never scruffy looking. My hair is cut short and my clothing is always clean and neat. I also agree with other posters on this forum, that wearing the right equipment is important. My weapon (Glock 23), my belt (2"nylon web), magazine carrier (2 extra) and my holster (Bianchi #82 Carry-Lok) are all black. My wife tells me I look like an off duty police officer. If I am ever asked whether I am, I ALWAYS say no. Any other response would be just plain dumb. I have visited many different retailers, stores and even malls. There have only been a few encounters where someone has actually asked me about my weapon. They were employees who worked at the store where I was shopping - both Glock enthusiasts. Most other people don't even give me a second glance. I feel a "right" unused is a "right" lost.

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I always carry wrote:
    Presentation of yourself is everything when you "open carry". As my name implies, I ALWAYS carry, every day, everywhere I go, at any time.

    snip.......
    Where have I seen this before? :quirky

    Hint - it is generally unnecessary to copy and paste the same post to three separate threads.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Ruger wrote:
    stainless1911 wrote:
    Because, only a criminal would need to hide their guns, like they hide whatever it is they are doing. Any law abiding free citizen should be proudly advocating and promoting A2. There is no great "tactical advantage" to CC. Therefore, it is counterproductive to do so. We need to change the perception of the public and the police from seeing a gun negatively, into the perception that we have nothing to hide. Legal OC gun owners and police are doing nothing to hide, so we dont . Criminals are trying to get away with something, therefore they hide, they conceal. I would like people to only get upset when someone is concealing, with the first thoughts being suspicion about what are they up to that they need to be hiding their gun.
    I understand your point, and, in principle, I agree. In a more ideal society no one would be offended at the idea of someone carrying a gun... Of course, in a more ideal society there would be no need to carry a gun, and we know that will never happen. That being said, I have applied for my CCW permit as there are situations in which CC may be preferable. Two situations come to mind for me personally:

    1. The security director at my church (retired LEO) has asked me to not OC at church. He agrees with my reasoning for OC & has no problem with it personally, but not everyone shares our opinion/beliefs on the subject. Apparently church leadership has no problem with folks lawfully CC'ing, but would rather not have people OC'ing. For me, this is not a hill to die on. This is not sufficient grounds for me to look for a different church. I have agreed to abide by the wishes of the church leaders. Better to CC than to not carry at all.

    2. Though many of my friends and family members understand & support my decision to OC, I do have friends & family members who do not share my enthusiasm for 2A issues. It would be disrespectful of me to knowingly enter the home of such a person while OC'ing. Again, better to CC than to not carry at all.I would rather not be unarmed just to appease someone else if I can help it, and I would rather be discreetly armed than to damage/ruin a relationship by openly imposing my views/beliefs upon someone who disagrees while in their own home. This is a situation in which what they don't know won't hurt them, I believe. I can CC, and I am (somewhat) happy because I am still armed, and the interpersonal conflict can be avoided.

    Unfortunately we cannot always get people to see things our way, and thereforecompromise must occur. If I could change people's minds about 2A/OC I would, but "change" doesn't always happen as quickly or easily as we would like - just ask aliberal
    He is not only right in principal, he is right legally. According to this quote from the Klein vs Leis case (Ohio Supreme Court 2003) which was a requote from the Dunston vs State case (Alabama Supreme Court 1900), "One of the objects of the law is the avoidance of bad influences which the wearing of a concealed deadly weapon may exert upon the wearer himself, and which in that way, as well as by the weapon’s obscured convenience for use, may tend to the insecurity of other persons."
    Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium

  21. #21
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    chevysoldier wrote:
    I posted this in ohioCCW.org as well, but what to see what responses I get from a more OC aimed site.

    I want to open carry but I am afraid that if I walk into an establishment while open carrying, they will protest and tell me to leave. Now that's totally their choice and right to do. But I don't want to create even more CPZs. Is it better to CC than OC in the aspect of the business not knowing you are armed so you can continue to carry there? What they don't know won't hurt them right? But what they do know could hurt us? Make sense? Thoughts?

    PS I don't want this to become a tactical advantages/disadvantages of OC v. CC. Only on the businesses point of view on a armed citizen. Thanks.
    My take on that is, walk in like you would if you were CCing or not carrying at all. In other words, walk in as if this is completely normal behavior for you. If anyone asks you to leave, ask politely to speak with a manager. If the manager asks you to leave, politely leave and don't patronize that business again.

    It's really not a big deal at all. Just make sure that you know your state's laws well.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost - it is normalizing, gaining acceptance through regular every day occurrences.

    We have seen a reduction in our rights by not taking positive steps to protect them. OCing is not for everybody, but it is the best form of silent, effort free (IMO) public relations exposure available. Say what you will - it does make a statement - it does deliver a message.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
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    you and I would get along in person, very well indeed!

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