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Thread: Carrying w/ a round in the chamber in a pocket holster

  1. #1
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    Consider a pocket .380 being carried in a pocket holster with a round in the chamber. The holster is in a front pocket.

    Whenever sitting down, the loaded firearm is now horizontal and is effectively aimed such that it violates at least 2 of the basic firearms safety laws...

    * "Know your target and what's behind it"
    * "Never point a gun at anything you don't intend to obliterate"

    ...because in this scenario, a loaded gun is pointed away from the ground and towards whoever/whatever you happen to be sitting across from, etc.

    I appreciate the safety of a modern firearm... but it seems to be like pocket holsters shouldn't be used unless the user knows he'll be standing up at all times (e.g., almost never).

    What am I missing?

    This would seem to be a severe limit on the usefulness of pocket .380s for deep concealment.

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    I've often thought the same thing. I carry an S&W 642 in a Bob Mika pocket holster, and yes, it does point directly at someone's.........um.....tender areas when you sit down at a table.
    Now, a S&W hammerless DAO revolver isn't going to go off in my pocket unless I'm on fire and a round cooks off. If that happens, I've got much bigger things to worry about.
    A semi auto is another thing though. But I think so long as the trigger is protected by the pocket holster, things should be just hunkey dorey.
    That being said, a couple basic rules are technically violated if the letter of the law is applied. This is one instance though, where we need to focus on the spirit of the law. In that regard, I don't believe the rules are violated.

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    Sort of the same issue when I appendix carry, except instead of pointing at other people, the gun is aiming right towards my boys.

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    the pocket guns I've been in contact with have such a heavy trigger pull I'd be amazed if they "just went off". So if you're really worried about where they're pointing, get an IWB or wear a baggier shirt and use a regular holster.

    My biggest beef against pocket holsters having used one for 2 weeks, my P3AT was riddled with lint. So back to a simple leather belt holster and a bigger shirt.

    As for deep concealment, look in to the smart carry holster.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I think the idea is along the lines that a holstered handgun isn't meaningfully "pointed" at anything, since the trigger is covered and it's not able to be fired.

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    That's a good point about the covered trigger.

    I'm still uncomfortable with the idea that my loaded firearm may be pointed at my loved ones.

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    tai4de2 wrote:
    That's a good point about the covered trigger.

    I'm still uncomfortable with the idea that my loaded firearm may be pointed at my loved ones.
    When you're sitting, given the slight downward angle of the muzzle, any ND will affect at most the victim's legs - wounds which are not life-threatening with immediate attention, which I'm sure there would be. I think I'd be more likely to win the lottery than to injure someone this way, and the odds are much higher that my gun would save someone's life.

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    Simple.... don't sit down. Just poking fun.

    Really, when holstered the laws of safe guns rules when carrying have to be altered for this application.

    The purpose of firearm safety rules are for overall gun handling butwhen you are considering carrying a firearm for personal defense youmust apply those "rules" for that application.



    NRA Gun Safety Rules http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp

    First Rule of Firearm Safety:

    1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
    This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage.
    The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.


    As this is the main thing you are focusing on. You have to understand you have the firearm holstered and not playing with it. Most times at the range you are handling the firearm - the muzzle needs to be pointed in a safe direction as you are touching it, the gun is loadedand the trigger is exposed. When holstered the trigger is covered and unless something engages the trigger the firearm will remain as is.

    Get a good pocket holster. Do not carry loose in your pocket.

    When ever you handle your firearm this rules applies.

    When holstered leave it alone.



    Second Rule of Firearm Safety:

    2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
    When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.


    Don't play with your holstered firearm. Not only will you give yourself away to those astute enough to know but also you are violating this basic principal of firearm safety.

    When ever you touch your firearm keep your finger off the trigger unless you are preparing to shoot. This applies to carrying or shooting at a range or anytime.



    Third Rule of Firearm Safety:

    3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
    Whenever you pick up a gun, immediately engage the safety device if possible, and, if the gun has a magazine, remove it before opening the action and looking into the chamber(s) which should be clear of ammunition. If you do not know how to open the action or inspect the chamber(s), leave the gun alone and get help from someone who does.


    Well, simply put this has no application when you are carrying a firearm for personal protection as it should be loaded. Chambering a round is up to you. It's highly recommended but for most that start out carrying it can be a bit unnerving at first. Remember to carry your firearm as it's intended to be carried (e.g. 1911 is suppose to be carried in "condition one" or cocked and locked). If you don't feel comfortable adapt to your comfort level and remember to practice this way, regardless of how you carry.

    Research the laws governing carrying in Washington. There's a lot of resources out there.

    Just be safe. Remember to practice.


    Young Kim, NRA Endowment Member
    NRA Certified Instructor (pistol)
    NRA Range Safety Officer

    www.shootonthemove.org

    "Shoot Safetly, Shoot Often and Share Your Sport!"
    Jim Scoutten, Shooting USA

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    tai4de2 wrote:
    I'm still uncomfortable with the idea that my loaded firearm may be pointed at my loved ones.
    Well, I guess I don't blame you. My advice would be to carry IWB.

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    I have one of those finger touch-pad combination handgun safes bolted to the top of my nightstand. It holds a G17 w/TLR-1 (most of the time) that has 18 rounds of 9mm in it, and is chambered and ready to go. Now, granted, the gun is pointed in the direction of my doorway while it is in the safe, and out that doorway is the main hallway in my home. My wife and kids (and me, too)walk down that hallway every day of our lives, so I guess, technically, I'm at the muzzle end of a Glock a few times a day, at least.

    If you use a proper holster (or safe, in my instance) there is no reason not to carry (store)as intended. The comment about the trigger-pull weight isa very good point as well. The Keltec/LCP/Kahr/J-frame type pocket guns are great in that they all require 7-12lbs of pressure on the trigger to light off a round. I am NOT comfortable pocket carrying something of the like of the new Sig P238, or its predecessor, the Colt Mustang, "cocked and locked" in my pocket. A single action triggered gun belongs in a holster on my belt, pointed at the ground directly beside and/or behind me. Use a good holster, and carry with confidence.

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    I wonder just how many people have been shot orkilled because someone was carrying in a horizontal shoulder rig and the gun went off. Just something to think about.

    I would say it hasn't happened though.

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    I think this is where some common sense should apply.

    When dealing with holstered guns carried for protection, such strict interpretation of the rules is misplaced and innappropriate.

    Those rules are for safe firearm HANDLING. When in a pocket holster, belt holster, quick-access safe, etc. You aren't "handling" the firearm and they don't come into play.

    What about regular old OWB carry and bending over to pick something up? Who are you "sweeping" then?

    Safe gun, in a secure holster. They don't just "go off".

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    You also forgot the whole "Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire"

    If the trigger is covered, it isn't an issue.

    Otherwise, using a regular IWB/OWB holster, you wouldn't be able to leave the ground floor of any building......or you'll be pointing your gun at people's heads!!! Oh the horrors!!!

  14. #14
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    If you don't trust the weapon, why carry it?



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    M1Gunr wrote:
    If you don't trust the weapon, why carry it?
    This is my primary response. Trust is the most important thing in the world and by far the hardest thing to earn. If your weapon cannot be trusted it is to be practiced until it can be safely carried or left to rot. If I were to carry a firearm I would choose a better place for it than somewhere it could critically injure someone if accidentally discharged or I would sit in such a way that it could be mitigated. On the waistbelt seems proper. Horizontal against the chest seems like a good idea. Conceal carried on the leg might be okay. I don't have experience with it so I honestly couldn't make suggestions. Though they do seem like good ideas.

    Anyway the seals on my knife need to be redone if I want to carry it, so I don't. I'll be fixing this later today. I'm so damn lazy.

  16. #16
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Worry about where the muzzle of a holstered weapon is pointed indicates the same kind of hysteria that the Anti-Gun crowd displays.

    The rules, like 911 Boss stated are for a gun that is being handled. Guns go off when they have a finger on the trigger.

    This same argument could be applied if one is totally paranoid (like most anti's) in just about every manner of carry. How about:

    "A gun carried on one's hip could discharge a round into the floor. If it is wood it could kill someone downstairs and if concrete the ricochet could kill someone nearby".

    " A gun carried in a shoulder holster is a danger to everyone behind them"

    " A gun sitting on a nightstand could go off and kill a) the dog; b) your wife; c) a kid; d) a neighbor; e) someone driving by in the street."

    Learn about your gun and if you don't feel it is safe, either don't carry it at all or buy one you do think is safe. Follow the rules when handling but the rest of the time leave the paranoia to the anti-gun crowd.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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