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Thread: long gun question

  1. #1
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Forgive me if this is an ignorant question, but I'm looking to trade someone an ar-15 lower for an acoustic guitar. I was telling a friend about this, and he said 'don't forget to register it.'

    He's got a few long guns, and this would be my first, were I to complete it. Do I really have to register the lower, or does it depend on barrel length once I get an upper for it? Again, sorry for the ignorant question, but I know Jack about long gun laws, just the ones that pertain to me, self defense, and my hand guns.

    Thanks guys
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    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    You don't need to register it if it's in rifle form. You would if it ends up being a handgun.

    Also, it's illegal to use a receiver that was sold as a rifle to make into a handgun per federal law, if I remember correctly. In other words, you can't buy (for example) an AR-15 rifle, and then convert it into an AR pistol. It all is determined what was used on the 4473 when it was purchased (rifle or handgun)
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    You do not need to register your AR lower.

    as far as this quote:

    Also, it's illegal to use a receiver that was sold as a rifle to make into a handgun per federal law, if I remember correctly. In other words, you can't buy (for example) an AR-15 rifle, and then convert it into an AR pistol. It all is determined what was used on the 4473 when it was purchased (rifle or handgun)

    that is only partially correct.

    You can buy a long gun, then alter said firearm to be less than 30 inches but more than 26 inches in over all length and would then be required to register this gun as a pistol in michigan. This would be legal. Would also allow you to carry this "pistol" under authority of your cpl.

    Making a long gun into a pistol by federal definition would be illegal in michigan as it is illegal to modify a long gun to anything less than 26 inches over all length.

    Rifles also need to have a barrel at least 16 inches in length, and shotguns 18 inches.

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    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    lapeer20m wrote:
    You do not need to register your AR lower.*

    as far as* this quote:

    Also, it's illegal to use a receiver that was sold as a rifle to make into a handgun per federal law, if I remember correctly. In other words, you can't buy (for example) an AR-15 rifle, and then convert it into an AR pistol. It all is determined what was used on the 4473 when it was purchased (rifle or handgun)

    that is only partially correct.*

    You can buy a long gun, then alter said firearm to be less than 30 inches but more than 26 inches in over all length and would then be required to register this gun as a pistol in michigan.* This would be legal.* Would also allow you to carry this "pistol" under authority of your cpl.*

    Making a long gun into a pistol by federal definition would be illegal in michigan as it is illegal to modify a long gun to anything less than 26 inches over all length.*

    Rifles also need to have a barrel at least 16 inches in length, and shotguns 18 inches.*
    my "per federal law" was meant to mean that you can't change a rifle into what the feds define as a pistol, but after reading my comment, I can see where it doesn't "read" that way
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Yooper wrote:
    You don't need to register it if it's in rifle form. You would if it ends up being a handgun.

    Also, it's illegal to use a receiver that was sold as a rifle to make into a handgun per federal law, if I remember correctly. In other words, you can't buy (for example) an AR-15 rifle, and then convert it into an AR pistol. It all is determined what was used on the 4473 when it was purchased (rifle or handgun)
    The one thing you can do, is factory order a receiver that was never put together as either a pistol or rifle. It will then be your choice for how to do it.

    For example, you could order a 10/22 receiver, then put a pistol grip and 4" barrel on it. But since it's perfectly legal to turn a pistol into a rifle, you would always have the option of making it a rifle, then back to a handgun, to your hearts content.

    This is the reason why I suggest getting AR's in pistol form.
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  6. #6
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    I'm confused now.. lol.

    So if this deal goes through, I should ask if it's in pistol or rifle form? or..?

    Sorry, like I said, still learning. :P
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  7. #7
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    malignity wrote:
    I'm confused now.. lol.

    So if this deal goes through, I should ask if it's in pistol or rifle form? or..?

    Sorry, like I said, still learning. :P
    You need to ask him if he bought it as a rifle, or as a pistol. If he bought it (was filled out on the 4473) as a rifle, you can't make it into a pistol as defined by federal law. If he purchased it as a pistol, you can make it into a pistol or a rifle. You can make it into a pistol under Michigan law (16" barrel, less than 30" length, but at least 26" length), as long as it's still a rifle under federal law (16" barrel, 26" minimum length).
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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    T Vance wrote:
    Yooper wrote:
    malignity wrote:
    I'm confused now.. lol.

    So if this deal goes through, I should ask if it's in pistol or rifle form? or..?

    Sorry, like I said, still learning. :P
    You need to ask him if he bought it as a rifle, or as a pistol. If he bought it (was filled out on the 4473) as a rifle, you can't make it into a pistol as defined by federal law. If he purchased it as a pistol, you can make it into a pistol or a rifle. You can make it into a pistol under Michigan law (16" barrel, less than 30" length, but at least 26" length), as long as it's still a rifle under federal law (16" barrel, 26" minimum length).
    Now I'm confused! So you are saying you can't for example, go to Dunham's buy a WASR-10, remove the butt stock, and register it as a pistol?
    You are not making a federal pistol. Just a MI one!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    You are not making a federal pistol. Just a MI one!
    What does that mean exactly? I can't take it into a another state ever? What if I move?

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    T Vance wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    You are not making a federal pistol. Just a MI one!
    What does that mean exactly? I can't take it into a another state ever? What if I move?
    Back to being regarded as a long gun by state law.

    I have decided to start calling 26-30" Michigan pistols MIDAP's. As in Michigan dumb ass pistols. Because calling them pistols defines the term dumb ass.
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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    T Vance wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    You are not making a federal pistol. Just a MI one!
    What does that mean exactly? I can't take it into a another state ever? What if I move?
    Sure you can it just will be considered a long gun as that is what the fed defines it as and most other states follow that definition.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

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  13. #13
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    You are not making a federal pistol. Just a MI one!
    What does that mean exactly? I can't take it into a another state ever? What if I move?
    Back to being regarded as a long gun by state law.

    I have decided to start calling 26-20" Michigan pistols MIDAP's. As in Michigan dumb ass pistols. Because calling them pistols defines the term dumb ass.
    Such animosity.
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    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    T Vance wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    You are not making a federal pistol. Just a MI one!
    What does that mean exactly? I can't take it into a another state ever? What if I move?
    The FEDERAL definition of a rifle, states that it needs a minimum 16" barrel, and be a minimum of 26" in length.

    Michigan says a rifle has a 16" minimum barrel, and a 30" minimum length.

    Thus, those guns defined by federal law as rifles, that have a 16" minimum barrel, and a length between 26" and 30" are considered pistols in Michigan. As far as I know, MI is the only state that strays from the Federal definition.

    Thus, if you were to make a rifle that is defined as a pistol under michigan law it would be LEGAL for you to carry that rifle loaded in your car, just as you can a handgun (with CPL of course), but would NOT be applicable to any reciprocity in other states, since it is considered a rifle, and not a handgun outside of Michigan
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Yooper wrote:
    but would NOT be applicable to any reciprocity in other states, since it is considered a rifle, and not a handgun outside of Michigan
    You don't need reciprocity in the free states, since they acknowledge the right to carry uncased and loaded long guns in the cabin of a vehicle with no special permit or license, same as handguns.
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    Yooper wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    You are not making a federal pistol. Just a MI one!
    What does that mean exactly? I can't take it into a another state ever? What if I move?
    The FEDERAL definition of a rifle, states that it needs a minimum 16" barrel, and be a minimum of 26" in length.

    Michigan says a rifle has a 16" minimum barrel, and a 30" minimum length. With a stock. Barrel can be any length as long as the fire arm doesn't accept a stock.

    Thus, those guns defined by federal law as rifles, that have a 16" minimum barrel, and a length between 26" and 30" are considered pistols in Michigan. As far as I know, MI is the only state that strays from the Federal definition.

    Thus, if you were to make a rifle that is defined as a pistol under michigan law it would be LEGAL for you to carry that rifle loaded in your car, just as you can a handgun (with CPL of course), but would NOT be applicable to any reciprocity in other states, since it is considered a rifle, and not a handgun outside of Michigan

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    Yooper wrote:
    but would NOT be applicable to any reciprocity in other states, since it is considered a rifle, and not a handgun outside of Michigan
    You don't need reciprocity in the free states, since they acknowledge the right to carry uncased and loaded long guns in the cabin of a vehicle with no special permit or license, same as handguns.
    here in washington state a michigan pistol would still be a rifle,,,

    my state and i think most others do not allow loaded rifles in cars.

    thats the beautifull thing about michigan pistols,,,

    its a rifle you can carry loaded in your car with a permit! in michigan
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  18. #18
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    Colorado is the closest one that I know. Rifles and shotguns can be carried anywhere in the car, as long as there is not a round in the chamber. Mags/clips/tubes can have rounds in them. Handguns legal in the car anywhere while loaded.
    Rand Paul 2016

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