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Thread: Buckhorn Grill Decides "No Weapons"

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    I recieved an e-mail today, from John Pickerel. He has decided against allowing open carriers or concealed carriers into his resteraunts.

    Its a shame, but it is his right as the business owner.



    February 10, 2010

    To our Customers:

    Buckhorn Grill would like to apologize for some misunderstanding about our “no weapon policy” in any of our restaurants. We have not in the past nor shall in the future allow weapons in our restaurants from our employees, vendors or customers.
    We made an exception on February 6, 2010, and regret this decision now. We were misled with some facts. The local police were involved and we knew none of the weapons were loaded, but it still caused tension with the large mob of people arriving as a group instead of individually. It was supposed to be a group luncheon, and it turned into a meeting. It was an organized propaganda meeting with an agenda. Flyers were handed out and none of this was Okayed with management. There were supposed to be only fifty people, and at least 100 were there. We were told that the luncheon would be an hour, and it turned into two hours We only have about seventy seats, so some of our customers had no place to sit.
    We apologize for any inconvenience to our regular customers, it will not happen again. We want to have a safe place for you to dine, and a safe place for us to work. Thanks for your support and understanding.
    Tom McLaughlin,
    Regional Manager,
    tommcl@sbcglobal.net

    John R. Pickerel, Owner
    Buckhorn Grill
    Jrpickerel@buckhornsteakhouse.com






    John R. Pickerel
    Buckhorn Steakhouse
    111 Main St.
    Winters, CA 95694
    530-304-7634 mobile

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    Regular Member leoffensive's Avatar
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    haha damn how come we cant get 100 people in a meet in socal?!?!?

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    This makes me really sad =( i LOVED their food..... that was officially the LAST time I will be eating there.

    Guess they didnt like the "mob" of over a hundred customers coming to eat there. O well im sure we can find other places that would love over 100 customers coming in to eat.

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    It's sad to see this happen. He does have a point, I've heard people complain about being "lectured" about open carrying. I really don't agree with our community randomly giving their two cents. I think the best thing to do would be to not "inform" people of open carry until asked. I am a strong supporter of the cause, but even I have a problem with people talking to me about their views when I haven't asked them and this goes for religion, politics or anything else.

    I plan on participating in the meeting of the 20th in Old Town, I don't think it's a good idea to have "meetings" at these events or loitering. We show up at the establishment, enjoy their service and move-on. The topic of open carry should not even be breached until asked. I do think we should have regular "meetings", but that should take place at one of our homes.

    just my two cents...

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    brad9point0 wrote:
    This makes me really sad =( i LOVED their food..... that was officially the LAST time I will be eating there.

    Guess they didnt like the "mob" of over a hundred customers coming to eat there. O well im sure we can find other places that would love over 100 customers coming in to eat.
    Make sure that after the next meeting (at another restaurant) you send the Buckhorn copies of your receipts and photos of the cash tips you leave. Let them know how much money they are loosing in a slow economy. It may not change their policy, but you will feel somewhat vindicated...:celebrate

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    heliopolissolutions wrote:
    I recieved an e-mail today, from John Pickerel. He has decided against allowing open carriers or concealed carriers into his resteraunts.

    Its a shame, but it is his right as the business owner.



    February 10, 2010

    To our Customers:

    Buckhorn Grill would like to apologize for some misunderstanding about our “no weapon policy” in any of our restaurants. We have not in the past nor shall in the future allow weapons in our restaurants from our employees, vendors or customers.
    We made an exception on February 6, 2010, and regret this decision now. We were misled with some facts. The local police were involved and we knew none of the weapons were loaded, but it still caused tension with the large mob of people arriving as a group instead of individually. It was supposed to be a group luncheon, and it turned into a meeting. It was an organized propaganda meeting with an agenda. Flyers were handed out and none of this was Okayed with management. There were supposed to be only fifty people, and at least 100 were there. We were told that the luncheon would be an hour, and it turned into two hours We only have about seventy seats, so some of our customers had no place to sit.
    We apologize for any inconvenience to our regular customers, it will not happen again. We want to have a safe place for you to dine, and a safe place for us to work. Thanks for your support and understanding.
    Tom McLaughlin,
    Regional Manager,
    tommcl@sbcglobal.net

    John R. Pickerel, Owner
    Buckhorn Grill
    Jrpickerel@buckhornsteakhouse.com
    Is any of this true? Did anyone mislead them? Were flyers handed out during the meetup to people who didn't want them? Were you there for 2 hours? Was a "meeting" held while in their restaurant? Or did everyone just sit and talk as one normally would?Did anyone attend and not pay for services? If no, then you were their paying customers and should be every bit as important to them as their other customers.

    This decision is not good for our cause. Why? Not because they made the decision, but because they made the decision based on your activities, behavior, and communications (or lack thereof). I must stress this is why its so important to be a good ambassador for the cause. Which in a nutshell means we are always respectful of others around us and especially of the shops and proprietors we wish to patronize. I know this is a bit of a lecture, but somebody needs to do some damage control on this one.

    As far as propaganda, I don't believe 2A and the Constitution is propaganda. This is why I created the educational brochure. This brochure, IMO, is what should be handed out to the regular folks (who ask), because its a rights based brochure, not boring PC's that won't be read by the majority of regular non-carrying folks.

    Finally, as far as everyone showing up on time, that's just lame.


    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    heliopolissolutions wrote:
    [SNIP] We want to have a safe place for you to dine, and a safe place for us to work. Thanks for your support and understanding.
    Tom McLaughlin,
    Regional Manager,
    tommcl@sbcglobal.net

    John R. Pickerel, Owner
    Buckhorn Grill
    Jrpickerel@buckhornsteakhouse.com






    John R. Pickerel
    Buckhorn Steakhouse
    111 Main St.
    Winters, CA 95694
    530-304-7634 mobile
    Wow...so the message is that a restaurant full of unarmed customers is safer than a restaurant full of armed customers?! Another criminal-safe zone established. I'm sure some of the "early releases" will appreciate this announcement.
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

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    I am not very upset about this. It took me a few months to think of my self as an activist, and I still don't like thinking of myself as one. There are things about this "movement" that upset me, things like huge meets and passing out flyers. It makes me feel like I'm pushing my agenda on others, something I have always hated about the antis. While it is upsetting to see another place push us away, I don't know that I would handle the situation any differently than their management chose to.
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    dirtykoala wrote:
    [SNIP] While it is upsetting to see another place push us away, I don't know that I would handle the situation any differently than their management chose to.
    What!!!???? Please elaborate before I jump to a wrong conclusion here.
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

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    On another note, I wonder if someone got to them. Like a chief LEO spewing safety propaganda and so on. It wouldn't surprise me.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Coolusername (that is a cool user name btw) from what I observed, I would answer most of your questions with a "yes". This is what I was getting at in my previous post. IMHO the movement is pushing too fast and in the wrong direction. I hate to say it, but I'm starting to really agree with Cato and calguns, we need to slow down a little right now. We have been jabbing at the public and so far it seems to have back fired for the most part. We need more political jabs, behind the scenes of average Joe sheeple.
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    dirtykoala wrote:
    I am not very upset about this. It took me a few months to think of my self as an activist, and I still don't like thinking of myself as one. There are things about this "movement" that upset me, things like huge meets and passing out flyers. It makes me feel like I'm pushing my agenda on others, something I have always hated about the antis. While it is upsetting to see another place push us away, I don't know that I would handle the situation any differently than their management chose to.
    This is why at the meetups I organize there is no agenda, no schedule, no forced handing out of flyers, and no media invitations. I try to schedule our "meetups" for a few basic reasons: 1. we get to meet each other in person, 2. meetups offer newbies the opportunity to UOC for the first time in the company of veterans, 3. group UOC'ersare usually safer than individual UOC'ers from predatory LEO's. This is also why we try to meetup at open venues instead of a singular location/business. The only flyers I ever hand out are those to people who actively engage me and ask about open carry.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Sorry, I haven't learned how to copy the previous thread yet...

    This is why at the meetups I organize there is no agenda, no schedule, no forced handing out of flyers, and no media invitations. I try to schedule our "meetups" for a few basic reasons: 1. we get to meet each other in person, 2. meetups offer newbies the opportunity to UOC for the first time in the company of veterans, 3. group UOC'ersare usually safer than individual UOC'ers from predatory LEO's. This is also why we try to meetup at open venues instead of a singular location/business. The only flyers I ever hand out are those to people who actively engage me and ask about open carry.


    I couldn't agree more...

    As a noob, I do look forward to meeting the whole community at some point and to be able to UOC. However, I would not be comfortable with us forcing our views and shoving pamphlets in people's faces. That kind of behavior would definitely turn me off from the community. Our attitude should be one where we've almost forgotten we have a gun strapped to our hip, until someone asks. We have to fight the anti's but not by using their tactics.

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    It seems like a good solution to me, that if you want to get to know your community better, that you should do it the old fashioned American way.

    How about instead of raising awareness by patronizing local business we host barbeque-potlucks and invite the community to come and enjoy themselves.

    This of course, requires some more thought and planning, but from a psychological point of view--what better way to develop bond or rapport than by sharing food?

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    Just click "Quote", instead of reply.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Woo-hoo I just saw the quote button!!

    heliopolissolutions wrote:
    It seems like a good solution to me, that if you want to get to know your community better, that you should do it the old fashioned American way.

    How about instead of raising awareness by patronizing local business we host barbeque-potlucks and invite the community to come and enjoy themselves.

    This of course, requires some more thought and planning, but from a psychological point of view--what better way to develop bond or rapport than by sharing food?
    Genious!!!:celebrate:celebrate

    By doing this we wouldn't be "invading" their space, they would come on their own accord.

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    Sons of Liberty wrote:
    dirtykoala wrote:
    [SNIP] While it is upsetting to see another place push us away, I don't know that I would handle the situation any differently than their management chose to.
    What!!!???? Please elaborate before I jump to a wrong conclusion here.
    the "situation" that we put that restaurant had to be overwhelming to them. they are just trying to make some money, we put at least 75 people in there within 30 mins (good for money), we also brought with us lost of "controversial" media attention, antis walking around the restaurant interviewing people, people passing out fliers, some talking to random passing peoplethat couldnt give 2 _hits about us and looked like they just wanted to get through the crowd and leave. random people were walking by and suddenly got "hey mam! were just a bunch of friendly americans carrying our guns and exercising our rights!", true, but not needed. the looks of some of the passerby were "i really dont care, just leave me alone."but they got a face full of info. our group did not come across well to most of the unknowing. and who will be remembered for this? california open carry, buckhorn grill.

    it doesnt matter if our agenda were freedom of speech, saving whales, carrying guns, donating to haitti, or practicing witch craft.. we came off too strong and put the buckhorn in the middle of a political agenda, regardless of the agenda is right or wrong, its not something a place of business needs.

    IMHO, i think we should write to buckhorn to say sorry for putting them in that situation. we need to keep our meets to public places like parks and city plazas with lots of places around to spread out and patronize, where no one place is over affected.
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    coolusername2007 wrote:
    dirtykoala wrote:
    I am not very upset about this. It took me a few months to think of my self as an activist, and I still don't like thinking of myself as one. There are things about this "movement" that upset me, things like huge meets and passing out flyers. It makes me feel like I'm pushing my agenda on others, something I have always hated about the antis. While it is upsetting to see another place push us away, I don't know that I would handle the situation any differently than their management chose to.
    This is why at the meetups I organize there is no agenda, no schedule, no forced handing out of flyers, and no media invitations. I try to schedule our "meetups" for a few basic reasons: 1. we get to meet each other in person, 2. meetups offer newbies the opportunity to UOC for the first time in the company of veterans, 3. group UOC'ersare usually safer than individual UOC'ers from predatory LEO's. This is also why we try to meetup at open venues instead of a singular location/business. The only flyers I ever hand out are those to people who actively engage me and ask about open carry.

    were on the same page here, the meets i have organized have been just this.

    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    dirtykoala wrote:
    Sons of Liberty wrote:
    dirtykoala wrote:
    [SNIP] While it is upsetting to see another place push us away, I don't know that I would handle the situation any differently than their management chose to.
    What!!!???? Please elaborate before I jump to a wrong conclusion here.
    the "situation" that we put that restaurant had to be overwhelming to them. they are just trying to make some money, we put at least 75 people in there within 30 mins (good for money), we also brought with us lost of "controversial" media attention, antis walking around the restaurant interviewing people, people passing out fliers, some talking to random passing peoplethat couldnt give 2 _hits about us and looked like they just wanted to get through the crowd and leave. random people were walking by and suddenly got "hey mam! were just a bunch of friendly americans carrying our guns and exercising our rights!", true, but not needed. the looks of some of the passerby were "i really dont care, just leave me alone."but they got a face full of info. our group did not come across well to most of the unknowing. and who will be remembered for this? california open carry, buckhorn grill.

    it doesnt matter if our agenda were freedom of speech, saving whales, carrying guns, donating to haitti, or practicing witch craft.. we came off too strong and put the buckhorn in the middle of a political agenda, regardless of the agenda is right or wrong, its not something a place of business needs.

    IMHO, i think we should write to buckhorn to say sorry for putting them in that situation. we need to keep our meets to public places like parks and city plazas with lots of places around to spread out and patronize, where no one place is over affected.
    Were you there?
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

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    yes
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    If you were there and this is what you observed, then IMHO your comments have considerably more weight than if you weren't there.

    With 75 people showing up, I'd also like to hear from anyone else who may have observed things that could have been done better.
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

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    +1 to not handing out flyers unless somebody seems interested in the topic. To date I've handed out one flyer, and it was to a girl who came up to our group and asked if we would be interested in donating money or something. I figured turnabout was fair play.

    The lame part about Buckhorn Grill's letter is that all of their complaints focus on things the group did that could easily be repeated without carrying firearms. Any group can show up all at once, take all the seats, sit around for two hours, and pass out flyers.

    Based on their list of complaints, it makes no sense at all that they are now banning firearms. If I want to concealed carry into one of their establishments, I cannot. If a police officer wants to go into their restaurant during lunch, he cannot (although I'm sure they meant to carve out an exception for police). Their letter should have banned large activist meetings from their restaurant, not weapons. They are attempting to wiggle their way out of their capitulation by giving seemingly reasonable reasons for their actions. I am unpersuaded, and I personally have more respect for CPK and Peet's than this establishment.

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    dirtykoala wrote:
    I am not very upset about this.
    You should be, if you want to keep your rights.

    It took me a few months to think of my self as an activist, and I still don't like thinking of myself as one.
    Being an activist is not for everyone, have you tried considering just practicing your right and not being an activist? Or just give it up all together

    There are things about this "movement" that upset me, things like huge meets and passing out flyers.
    That is how you peaceably gain. How do you think Civil Rights Activists made ground in the 1950's and 1960's? By doing nothing? Through violence? No, they gathered in large groups and passed out fliers. They pushed their agenda. You can't fix a problem by waiting it out.

    It makes me feel like I'm pushing my agenda on others, something I have always hated about the antis. While it is upsetting to see another place push us away
    This is why people lose, because they are afraid of making people mad. They hang back and play it safe. Do anti-gun advocates do this? NO! They have organizations, people of many professions and political affiliations, TV commercials, movies, documentaries, statistics (whether they are right or wrong), misinformation or information that is easily misconstrued in their favor... People must come together en masse. They need to pass out and preach educational information. I am not saying get in peoples faces and act nasty, I am saying get in peoples faces and show them the light... Mosh damnit, MOSH!

    I don't know that I would handle the situation any differently than their management chose to.
    Be creative. I don't know what this place's policy was on firearms before the event but they should have started by creating a set of rules for groups organizing a meeting/dinner whatever at their place... not banning carriers and their weapons altogether. Someone felt spited or afraid of losing revenue (which is an unfounded assumption based on fear) and so they felt they needed to spite the whole movement.

    It sucks, that's one for the anti-gunners. The Brady's almost don't have to do anything as far as talking to coffee shops and restaurants, but you can't let these lost battles shake your will, your resolve. You must stand and deliver, or get the hell out. I prefer that you stand.

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    February 10, 2010

    To our Customers:

    Buckhorn Grill would like to apologize for some misunderstanding about our “no weapon policy” in any of our restaurants. We have not in the past nor shall in the future allow weapons in our restaurants from our employees, vendors or customers.
    We made an exception on February 6, 2010, and regret this decision now. We were misled with some facts. The local police were involved and we knew none of the weapons were loaded, but it still caused tension with the large mob of people arriving as a group instead of individually. It was supposed to be a group luncheon, and it turned into a meeting. It was an organized propaganda meeting with an agenda. Flyers were handed out and none of this was Okayed with management. There were supposed to be only fifty people, and at least 100 were there. We were told that the luncheon would be an hour, and it turned into two hours We only have about seventy seats, so some of our customers had no place to sit.
    We apologize for any inconvenience to our regular customers, it will not happen again. We want to have a safe place for you to dine, and a safe place for us to work. Thanks for your support and understanding.
    Tom McLaughlin,
    Regional Manager,
    tommcl@sbcglobal.net

    John R. Pickerel, Owner
    Buckhorn Grill
    Jrpickerel@buckhornsteakhouse.com
    I just want to give my personal impressions of the "Group Luncheon". I arrived with my wife, daughter, brother,and Uncle @ almost exactly at 11am. None of us were actually carrying. We came to support law abiding citizens and a business that apparently wasn't hostile towards law abiding citizens. I personally was unaware that the business had a "No Weapons" policy. In fact if that was, and still is their policy then they really shouldn't have made an exception. I can only speculate at what could have motivated management to make such an exception. I'm not sure if either the regional manager or owner were present during the luncheon. I will have to defer that particular point to someone more knowledgeable.
    There were a lot of people. Far more than I think anyone really expected. Part of this came from the media exposure leading up to the luncheon and the attempted secrecy to ensure that no avoidable problems would present themselves. We didn't get into the place until about 11:30am and we were pretty much at the end of the line. So we stood in line for about a half hour and then barely found some place to sit. In fact we sat at the bar. I barely could fit.
    I don't know what transpired that made our "group luncheon" a meeting. There was only on time when we were thanked for coming and instructed to finish up with lunch soon and move on for everyone else. This announcement probably happened at about 11:50am. We were done and out the door by 12:15am. Granted a lot people were chatting it up on the public sidewalk. Of course many people had flyers. I wasn't a witness to anyone just walking up to people and campaigning for UOC support. I'm not saying that it didn't happen, but I didn't witness it.
    I can only speculate what types of communication the business received before, during, and after the "group luncheon". I feel a little deceived by management for the appearance of being on board with the "group luncheon" and then deciding to put into full force their no weapons policy that has always been in place.
    I guess that regular customers (i.e. those that live in Walnut Creek) are more important than more customers. I guess that's just another reason not to spend money in Walnut Creek. (I haven't been a fan of Walnut Creek for sometime)
    Just one last note. It seems like not one wants to call UOC a movement, but then people post on the forum what we as participants or supportersof the movement should or shouldn't be doing. ??? This is confusing to me. The whole idea of UOC is knowledge of the Lawwith each individualleft to decided how much or little they want to do. I guess the best approach to to always remember that you as the individual is responsible for yourself and yourself only. The movement isn't going to come to your rescue if something goes wrong, because its NOT a movement. Its individuals getting educated in applicable law and abiding by that law fully. There can be many reasons why someone chooses to UOC. But the best answer it that it is legal and it is their choice to do so.
    Okay, I think that enough for now.

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    jsebclark wrote:
    [SNIP]Okay, I think that enough for now.
    Thanks for sharing your observations and thoughts.

    Anyone else that attended want to share their observations and experiences?
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

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