Buckhorn Grill Decides "No Weapons"

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If you were there and this is what you observed, then IMHO your comments have considerably more weight than if you weren't there.

With 75 people showing up, I'd also like to hear from anyone else who may have observed things that could have been done better.

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+1 to not handing out flyers unless somebody seems interested in the topic. To date I've handed out one flyer, and it was to a girl who came up to our group and asked if we would be interested in donating money or something. I figured turnabout was fair play.

The lame part about Buckhorn Grill's letter is that all of their complaints focus on things the group did that could easily be repeated without carrying firearms. Any group can show up all at once, take all the seats, sit around for two hours, and pass out flyers.

Based on their list of complaints, it makes no sense at all that they are now banning firearms. If I want to concealed carry into one of their establishments, I cannot. If a police officer wants to go into their restaurant during lunch, he cannot (although I'm sure they meant to carve out an exception for police). Their letter should have banned large activist meetings from their restaurant, not weapons. They are attempting to wiggle their way out of their capitulation by giving seemingly reasonable reasons for their actions. I am unpersuaded, and I personally have more respect for CPK and Peet's than this establishment.

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dirtykoala wrote:

I am not very upset about this.

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You should be, if you want to keep your rights.

It took me a few months to think of my self as an activist, and I still don't like thinking of myself as one.

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Being an activist is not for everyone, have you tried considering just practicing your right and not being an activist? Or just give it up all together

There are things about this "movement" that upset me, things like huge meets and passing out flyers.

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That is how you peaceably gain. How do you think Civil Rights Activists made ground in the 1950's and 1960's? By doing nothing? Through violence? No, they gathered in large groups and passed out fliers. They pushed their agenda. You can't fix a problem by waiting it out.

It makes me feel like I'm pushing my agenda on others, something I have always hated about the antis. While it is upsetting to see another place push us away

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This is why people lose, because they are afraid of making people mad. They hang back and play it safe. Do anti-gun advocates do this? NO! They have organizations, people of many professions and political affiliations, TV commercials, movies, documentaries, statistics (whether they are right or wrong), misinformation or information that is easily misconstrued in their favor... People must come together en masse. They need to pass out and preach educational information. I am not saying get in peoples faces and act nasty, I am saying get in peoples faces and show them the light... Mosh damnit, MOSH!

I don't know that I would handle the situation any differently than their management chose to.

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Be creative. I don't know what this place's policy was on firearms before the event but they should have started by creating a set of rules for groups organizing a meeting/dinner whatever at their place... not banning carriers and their weapons altogether. Someone felt spited or afraid of losing revenue (which is an unfounded assumption based on fear) and so they felt they needed to spite the whole movement.

It sucks, that's one for the anti-gunners. The Brady's almost don't have to do anything as far as talking to coffee shops and restaurants, but you can't let these lost battles shake your will, your resolve. You must stand and deliver, or get the hell out. I prefer that you stand.

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February 10, 2010

To our Customers:

Buckhorn Grill would like to apologize for some misunderstanding about our “no weapon policy” in any of our restaurants. We have not in the past nor shall in the future allow weapons in our restaurants from our employees, vendors or customers.
We made an exception on February 6, 2010, and regret this decision now. We were misled with some facts. The local police were involved and we knew none of the weapons were loaded, but it still caused tension with the large mob of people arriving as a group instead of individually. It was supposed to be a group luncheon, and it turned into a meeting. It was an organized propaganda meeting with an agenda. Flyers were handed out and none of this was Okayed with management. There were supposed to be only fifty people, and at least 100 were there. We were told that the luncheon would be an hour, and it turned into two hours We only have about seventy seats, so some of our customers had no place to sit.
We apologize for any inconvenience to our regular customers, it will not happen again. We want to have a safe place for you to dine, and a safe place for us to work. Thanks for your support and understanding.
Tom McLaughlin,
Regional Manager,
tommcl@sbcglobal.net

John R. Pickerel, Owner
Buckhorn Grill
Jrpickerel@buckhornsteakhouse.com

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I just want to give my personal impressions of the "Group Luncheon". I arrived with my wife, daughter, brother,and Uncle @ almost exactly at 11am. None of us were actually carrying. We came to support law abiding citizens and a business that apparently wasn't hostile towards law abiding citizens. I personally was unaware that the business had a "No Weapons" policy. In fact if that was, and still is their policy then they really shouldn't have made an exception. I can only speculate at what could have motivated management to make such an exception. I'm not sure if either the regional manager or owner were present during the luncheon. I will have to defer that particular point to someone more knowledgeable.

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There were a lot of people. Far more than I think anyone really expected. Part of this came from the media exposure leading up to the luncheon and the attempted secrecy to ensure that no avoidable problems would present themselves. We didn't get into the place until about 11:30am and we were pretty much at the end of the line. So we stood in line for about a half hour and then barely found some place to sit. In fact we sat at the bar. I barely could fit.

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I don't know what transpired that made our "group luncheon" a meeting. There was only on time when we were thanked for coming and instructed to finish up with lunch soon and move on for everyone else. This announcement probably happened at about 11:50am. We were done and out the door by 12:15am. Granted a lot people were chatting it up on the public sidewalk. Of course many people had flyers. I wasn't a witness to anyone just walking up to people and campaigning for UOC support. I'm not saying that it didn't happen, but I didn't witness it.

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I can only speculate what types of communication the business received before, during, and after the "group luncheon". I feel a little deceived by management for the appearance of being on board with the "group luncheon" and then deciding to put into full force their no weapons policy that has always been in place.

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I guess that regular customers (i.e. those that live in Walnut Creek) are more important than more customers. I guess that's just another reason not to spend money in Walnut Creek. (I haven't been a fan of Walnut Creek for sometime)

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Just one last note. It seems like not one wants to call UOC a movement, but then people post on the forum what we as participants or supportersof the movement should or shouldn't be doing. ??? This is confusing to me. The whole idea of UOC is knowledge of the Lawwith each individualleft to decided how much or little they want to do. I guess the best approach to to always remember that you as the individual is responsible for yourself and yourself only. The movement isn't going to come to your rescue if something goes wrong, because its NOT a movement. Its individuals getting educated in applicable law and abiding by that law fully. There can be many reasons why someone chooses to UOC. But the best answer it that it is legal and it is their choice to do so.

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Okay, I think that enough for now.

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jsebclark wrote:

[SNIP]Okay, I think that enough for now.

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Thanks for sharing your observations and thoughts.

Anyone else that attended want to share their observations and experiences?

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I was there as well, and I did not at any time notice anyone forcing information on people or just standing on the corner (so to speak) passing out fliers.

Also, I agree with jsebclark that it really didn't feel like a meeting, Livermoron stood up and spoke briefly thanking people for coming and basically asking them to leave ASAP. The only part I could see as even partially being considered part of that, is the name and email address forms that were passed out around noon... probably a bad idea in a public setting like this.

I do agree with dirtykoala that pushing our views on people is generally a bad thing, but again I didn't notice any of that happening.

But I really don't enjoy being considered part of a mob. At worst I would call it a (rather large) group of hungry people.

Perhaps this went down a little differently. Perhaps the Regional Manager or Owner called up the Store Manager and said... "Wow, good job, you made a lot more than normal last Saturday. How'd you do it?" And the store manager replied..."Oh we had a group of UOCers come in, we were packed!" And it rapidly went downhill from there. Either that, or the Owner saw the press and was angry.

As far as Open Carry as a movement goes, some standardization of terminology is becoming quite apparently necessary. Open Carry IS called a movement on opencarry.org. If we do not want to be classified as a movement, we need to publicly distance ourselves and say “no, we're not part of the Open Carry Movement”. It is often assumed, that if you're open carrying, you must be part of the open carry movement. Such as, if you're for civil rights during the 50s you must be part of the civil rights movement. All people that Open Carry in California (except for LE) are automatically going to be considered part of this movement. In more free states, where open carry isn't a big deal, wouldn't see this as a movement or at least it would not be necessary... but this is California, "it's a whole other country" (to borrow a line from a Texas advertisement). Whether or not we want to be considered organized or not, is a big deal. I always hear that we are an unorganized group of people concerned with our 2A rights, and then I hear people talking about "Open Carry Chapters". And perhaps this is just my point of view on the subject, but when I hear of Chapters, I immediately think of Chapters and Charters for Harley owners groups i.e. Hells Angels Los Angeles County. Whether or not these Chapters and Charters are criminal isn't the point, the point is, they ARE organized. Just the shear idea of having a "Chapter" is automatically going to make people think that we are organized. Organization is good and bad, and I can definitely see arguments going both ways, but the problem is that it should be something that we are unified on.

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dirtykoala wrote:

Sons of Liberty wrote:

dirtykoala wrote:

[SNIP] While it is upsetting to see another place push us away, I don't know that I would handle the situation any differently than their management chose to.

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What!!!???? Please elaborate before I jump to a wrong conclusion here.

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the "situation" that we put that restaurant had to be overwhelming to them. they are just trying to make some money, we put at least 75 people in there within 30 mins (good for money), we also brought with us lost of "controversial" media attention, antis walking around the restaurant interviewing people, people passing out fliers, some talking to random passing peoplethat couldnt give 2 _hits about us and looked like they just wanted to get through the crowd and leave. random people were walking by and suddenly got "hey mam! were just a bunch of friendly americans carrying our guns and exercising our rights!", true, but not needed. the looks of some of the passerby were "i really dont care, just leave me alone."but they got a face full of info. our group did not come across well to most of the unknowing. and who will be remembered for this? california open carry, buckhorn grill.

it doesnt matter if our agenda were freedom of speech, saving whales, carrying guns, donating to haitti, or practicing witch craft.. we came off too strong and put the buckhorn in the middle of a political agenda, regardless of the agenda is right or wrong, its not something a place of business needs.

IMHO, i think we should write to buckhorn to say sorry for putting them in that situation. we need to keep our meets to public places like parks and city plazas with lots of places around to spread out and patronize, where no one place is over affected.

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Wow. Were we at the same meetup? There was no "organized flier handout" or "meeting." Many people asked us why we were carrying, and subsequently, received a flier. We didn't have some sort of staging down the street and walk in as a mob. The meetup time was at 11am and most people just happened to show up on time. The workers were very supportive and received 20 dollar tips from many of the open carriers.

Buckhorn grill has caved to the Brady Campaign and bought into their propaganda. Why else would Buckhorn be complaining that we brought 100 customers instead of 50? The owner is anti-gun, plain and simple. I suspect that the regional manager didn't inform him about the meetup ahead of time, and he got pissed when he saw it on the news.

How was it a problem that 100 people showed up exercising their rights? Would you prefer the same 5 people at Starbucks month after month? It's never a bad thing for more people to know about their rights. I am happy that we had such a huge turn out.

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Also, the meetup began at 11 because they opened at 11. Anyone that arrived early was stuck waiting outside.

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I also received this email from Buckhorn Grill.

I passed out a total of three fliers. Two were to two gentlemen I shared my table with who were brand new to OC. The third was to a passerby outside who asked what was going on with all the guns.

I saw no one trying to "force" fliers on people passing by.

As far as a meeting and an agenda go, this is complete nonsense. This was just what it was advertised to be: A group of like-minded people getting together to socialize and have a meal.

It sounds like because we were (lawfully) carrying weapons we were not considered "regular" customers. I enjoyed their food and was planing on going back, but obviously due to their stance I will not be returning.

I plan on respectfully replying back to Buckhorn Grill and giving them my take on things.

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I don't know for sure, but I agree that the excuse given is shady.

If they don't wish to let us have our meetings then they could have simply communicated that to us and still allowed weapons on an individual basis or even saying that they caved to be anti's. I could have respected that, but this to me seems like the pathetic lie you tell to your boss about why you aren't coming into work when your boss knows the real deal.

What I can say is that I agree that we should be careful and communicate constructively. Cultivate strong relationships and plan accordingly. Planning a 75 people event at a 75 capacity restaurant is probably not a good thing unless you buy out the restaurant.

I am not trying to act like I know all or that I could have done better, I had no hand in communicating or planning this and don't know if it was really the organizers or some other cause (but you can see what I suspect above).

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Oh well. I rather enjoyed their food.

I did see some people handing out fliers to passerbys ( I have no idea if they were forced or not). It did seem a little like there were a few who were trying to push the agenda and some very vocal members.

I'm old enough to make my own decisions.

It almost felt like a power struggle was going on with some of the more vocal attendees. Just my .03

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That is ridiculous.
His characterization of a "MOB" and propaganda is wrong.

I can't believe the "MINISTER OF MEAT" has caved.

I'm very disappointed,and I'm glad I didn't buy anything.

Someone should craft a very thoughtful response to this.

Should there be a change the way open carry patronizes StarBucks,to avoid any possible future problems,like this one?

PS I hope KNBR drops them.

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Maybe some people got the wrong idea with what I said in re to the fliers, I saw a few times that a random person would say "hey what's this all about?" and the response was something close to "we are california open carry (as if we are an actual organisation), check us out at (plug one of three or four websites). Here's a flyer". When the person asking about it, wasn't asking about the movement, just what was up with the giant crowd and the media. People were not rallying on the corner giving fliers to everyone, sorry if I gave that impression.

The problem with them getting 100 people instead of 50 is that they were prepared or designed for it. That's 100+/- patrons, plus media, plus indi reporters and bloggers, plus some antis "scoping" the scene.

The problem with 100 people or 75 or what ever the number showing up to exercise their rights is that here in the bay, and most of CA the 2a is a touchy, emotional, controversial one. We brought our dram to their business.

I saw a few people that seemed uncomfortable with us, and instead of being left alone, they were approached by people (us) who they didn't want to deal with.

I think all in all the meet did more bad than good. I havnt seen much traffic here saying "hey I heard about you at the walnut creek meet and want to join", I have heard of us being banned from the place we were at, and several other sources say that we appeared to be weird, right wing, gun nuts, some comparing us to Trekkies. None of these titles are good for us, doesn't matter if you are a weird gun obsessed super right winged Trekkie and proud of it, most of the population is not going to side with us.

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Theseus wrote:

I don't know for sure, but I agree that the excuse given is shady.

If they don't wish to let us have our meetings then they could have simply communicated that to us and still allowed weapons on an individual basis or even saying that they caved to be anti's. I could have respected that, but this to me seems like the pathetic lie you tell to your boss about why you aren't coming into work when your boss knows the real deal.

What I can say is that I agree that we should be careful and communicate constructively. Cultivate strong relationships and plan accordingly. Planning a 75 people event at a 75 capacity restaurant is probably not a good thing unless you buy out the restaurant.

I am not trying to act like I know all or that I could have done better, I had no hand in communicating or planning this and don't know if it was really the organizers or some other cause (but you can see what I suspect above).

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There was no way anyone could have predicted the 100 person turnout. Our last meetup had only 15 people.

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dirtykoala wrote:

I think all in all the meet did more bad than good. I havnt seen much traffic here saying "hey I heard about you at the walnut creek meet and want to join",

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The Bay Area Open Carry Facebook group went from about 690 members to 830 in the last week. I would say that the meetup had something to do with that.

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onedavetoomany wrote:

Theseus wrote:

I don't know for sure, but I agree that the excuse given is shady.

If they don't wish to let us have our meetings then they could have simply communicated that to us and still allowed weapons on an individual basis or even saying that they caved to be anti's. I could have respected that, but this to me seems like the pathetic lie you tell to your boss about why you aren't coming into work when your boss knows the real deal.

What I can say is that I agree that we should be careful and communicate constructively. Cultivate strong relationships and plan accordingly. Planning a 75 people event at a 75 capacity restaurant is probably not a good thing unless you buy out the restaurant.

I am not trying to act like I know all or that I could have done better, I had no hand in communicating or planning this and don't know if it was really the organizers or some other cause (but you can see what I suspect above).

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There was no way anyone could have predicted the 100 person turnout. Our last meetup had only 15 people.

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I am not trying to lay blame or accuse anyone. I was simply trying to make a helpful statement.

Hell, I tried to organize a BBQ and even a protest and both ended up not happening.

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tekshogun wrote:

dirtykoala wrote:

I am not very upset about this.

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You should be, if you want to keep your rights.

It took me a few months to think of my self as an activist, and I still don't like thinking of myself as one.

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Being an activist is not for everyone, have you tried considering just practicing your right and not being an activist? Or just give it up all together

There are things about this "movement" that upset me, things like huge meets and passing out flyers.

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That is how you peaceably gain. How do you think Civil Rights Activists made ground in the 1950's and 1960's? By doing nothing? Through violence? No, they gathered in large groups and passed out fliers. They pushed their agenda. You can't fix a problem by waiting it out.

It makes me feel like I'm pushing my agenda on others, something I have always hated about the antis. While it is upsetting to see another place push us away

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This is why people lose, because they are afraid of making people mad. They hang back and play it safe. Do anti-gun advocates do this? NO! They have organizations, people of many professions and political affiliations, TV commercials, movies, documentaries, statistics (whether they are right or wrong), misinformation or information that is easily misconstrued in their favor... People must come together en masse. They need to pass out and preach educational information. I am not saying get in peoples faces and act nasty, I am saying get in peoples faces and show them the light... Mosh damnit, MOSH!

I don't know that I would handle the situation any differently than their management chose to.

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Be creative. I don't know what this place's policy was on firearms before the event but they should have started by creating a set of rules for groups organizing a meeting/dinner whatever at their place... not banning carriers and their weapons altogether. Someone felt spited or afraid of losing revenue (which is an unfounded assumption based on fear) and so they felt they needed to spite the whole movement.

It sucks, that's one for the anti-gunners. The Brady's almost don't have to do anything as far as talking to coffee shops and restaurants, but you can't let these lost battles shake your will, your resolve. You must stand and deliver, or get the hell out. I prefer that you stand.

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+ a BILLION OR TWO

It it no longer time to play "nice". We must employ the very same tactics used by our enemies and use them to our advantage.

HOWEVER, we must also pick our battles to our advantage and the disadvantage of our enemies. Starbucks has apparently made it abundantly clear that the brady bunch can kiss their behinds.....so spend your money at Starbucks, and other gun friendly businesses, save the reciepts, bundle them at small meet ups, and mail them to Peets, Kalifornia Kitchen, Buckhorn, etc. With hundreds of pro carry folks pooling their reciepts, even if it takes establishing a mail box, then presenting the lost revenues to those businesses who are anti-gun competition to pro carry companies getting the dollars of carriers.

Show them how much they're losing.

As for Buckhorn Grill, if the OP letter is true, another brady bunch tactic would probably be quite effective......picket them from pulic property while open carrying and see how much business they get.

Yeah, I'm from Oregon but I get down there quite a bit to visit relatives in Nor Cal (which is NORTH of SAC BTW). LOL And yeah, I carry when there, openly and loadedon my mothers property right across the street from a community college and government offices, UOC when not at moms place.

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On another point.

The self doubt, second guessing, and desire to stand down or lower the profile is EXACTLY what the enemy wants you to do. DO NOT FALL FOR IT.

Considering that Buckhorn is now saying they made an exception to their no guns policy there are several possibilities that should be considered:

1) They were in bed with the brady bunch from the start and were hoping to create an incident or otherwise discredit UOCers.

2) As others have pointed out, the decision wasn't approved higher up and those higher up are anti's.

3) The brady bunch strong armed the ownership.

4) They were anti from the get go and were employing psy ops tactics.



Those aren't the only possibilities obviously but they are ones which should be considered.

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Dear Mssrs. Pickerel and McLaughlin,
On behalf of the International Criminals Union, I thank you for making your restaurant a safe working environment for my union brothers.

Sincerely,
Jack Busby Smith
President
International Criminals Union
http://criminalsforguncontrol.com/

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This is what I would send if I had a throwaway email.

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Hi All,

I too am sad to learn of this new development. We see again that the likes of The Brady Campaign are relentlessly attacking our rights and harassing businesses in our communities for doing no wrong.

Please see below a letter from Bay Area Open Carry that is on its way tomorrow to The Buckhorn Grill.

I am sure this will clear up many questions you have stated. Please PM me if you have additional questions.

Carry On!

Livermoron

February 11[sup]th[/sup] 2010]

To The Buckhorn Grill

FROM Bay Area Open Carry

Regarding: Response to February 10[sup]th[/sup] 2010 Letter on Firearms, Bay Area Open Carry Luncheon

Dear Sirs,

First let me say thank you for allowing a law-abiding group of hungry local individuals patron your establishment in Walnut Creek on February 6[sup]th[/sup] 2010. Our “movement” seeks only to further the awareness of responsible ownership, and proper use of, firearms in the community. As I am sure you are aware, we ordered generously from your abundant menu, your polite and professional staff was tipped well, there was no unruliness, and other that a bit wealthier we left your restaurant as we found it. Today we became aware of an apparently new company policy you have enacted. Please reference the body of your customer letter below.

To our Customers:

Buckhorn Grill would like to apologize for some misunderstanding about our “no weapon policy” in any of our restaurants. We have not in the past nor shall in the future allow weapons in our restaurants from our employees, vendors or customers.

We made an exception on February 6, 2010, and regret this decision now. We were misled with some facts. The local police were involved and we knew none of the weapons were loaded, but it still caused tension with the large mob of people arriving as a group instead of individually. It was supposed to be a group luncheon, and it turned into a meeting. It was an organized propaganda meeting with an agenda. Flyers were handed out and none of this was Okayed with management. There were supposed to be only fifty people, and at least 100 were there. We were told that the luncheon would be an hour, and it turned into two hours. We only have about seventy seats, so some of our customers had no place to sit.

We apologize for any inconvenience to our regular customers, it will not happen again. We want to have a safe place for you to dine, and a safe place for us to work. Thanks for your support and understanding.

Tom McLaughlin, Regional Manager, tommcl@sbcglobal.net

John R. Pickerel, Owner
Buckhorn Grill
Jrpickerel@buckhornsteakhouse.com

Please allow me now to clarify the facts in the matter. I initiated contact with the Walnut Creek Police and the Walnut Creek Buckhorn Grill weeks in advance of our luncheon. The Buckhorn Grill Manager, Paul, was later in contact with me (and the Police Department) no less than 3 times prior to our luncheon. I also personally met with Tom (Regional Manager) at the beginning of our 11am lunch. At no time did I mislead the management, nor was I informed of ANY past or present policy concerning firearms in your locations. At each contact I personally assured the management that we would be happy to leave if there were any problems. As of the day before the luncheon we had 52 RSVP’s and we did not expect many more. Due to unexpected television media coverage the day before, there were more attendees than were expected.

The luncheon group quickly spent a conservatively estimated $1200 (not including tips) and The Buckhorn Grill happily accepted our business at the time. Additionally, about 45 minutes into our luncheon I approached Tom and asked if I might be allowed to audibly offer a “thank you” to our host and give instructions to help clear out our group in a timely manner. He allowed this and I did so promptly. The brief announcement took about 30 seconds. There was no “meeting agenda” or other such organizational structure. Printed materials were given only to those that asked for information related to Open Carry. The majority of our group was seated, fed, and out the door in about 75 minutes.

Unfortunately, the only “propaganda agenda” afoot was on the part of a venomous group you are now well familiarized with, “The Brady Campaign”. Had this Anti-Constitution, Anti-Gun, Fear-mongering organization not intervened and began to relentlessly harass The Buckhorn Grill, I am certain our luncheon would have been just another good business day.

I personally offer a sincere apology to your Management and Staff only for having to endure the gauntlet of the now well-known strong-armed and dirty tactics of The Brady Campaign. I wish your business great prosperity in the future and hope that you will consider the fact that responsibly armed individuals make safer communities.

Sincerely,

Jon Schwartz
Bay Area Open Carry