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Thread: Preemption 2010

  1. #1
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    Folks,

    Here is the new preemption legislation. http://www.house.mo.gov/billtracking...ro/HB2150I.htm

    I will give a break down.

    1. Legislature declares that the RKBA is a Fundamental right, something the courts are reluctant to declare. While stating enumerated rights deserve this heightened level of protection (strict scrutiny), there has been some members questions this in past MOSC decisions when talking about RKBA.

    2. Takes away the right for any "political subdivision" of the state from taxing your RKBA.

    3. Takes away the right to prohibit open carry, unless they follow state law.

    4. Requires "political subdivision's" to incorporate justification of defense found in Chapter 563 in their ordinances.

    5. And most importantly: #7. In addition to any other relief provided, the court shall award reasonable attorney fees, expenses, and court costs to any person, group, or entity that prevails in an action challenging:

    1. An ordinance, resolution, or motion as being in conflict with this section; or

    2. An administrative action taken in bad faith as being in conflict with this section.


    Representative Scott Largent has carried this legislation again and it passed the house last year and was stopped in Senate committee, along with other pro-gun bills.

    What people do not understand, is we are going to have court cases right after McDonald and we need this legislation passed - Before any other pro-gun bills. We are going to have precedent setting court cases very soon in MO and I hope peopleunderstand how important it is going to be to have this statue in effect.


  2. #2
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    3. Takes away the right to prohibit open carry, unless they follow state law.

    Sorry for "mincing" words, but my comment is also tied into the "following state law" part.

    No such thing as a "right to prohibit". I realize what you mean, but you have also added "unless" which infers that the state does have the "right" if it meets some unstated qualifier.

    The state can only regulate. We give it the power to regulate. We posess rights which override this power.

    There is nothing in state law that addresses open carry. State law only regulates concealed carry. Therefore, pre-emption would remove the power of municipalities to regulate open carry unless........nothing. It would remove the power of municipalities to regulate open carry period.

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    Sounds like an improvement! Hope it passes

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    I just hope that some nitwit doesn't have a brain fart like they did last year and combine it with campus carry or some other bill that will definitely get it killed.

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    Superlite27 wrote:
    3. Takes away the right to prohibit open carry, unless they follow state law.

    Sorry for "mincing" words, but my comment is also tied into the "following state law" part.

    No such thing as a "right to prohibit". I realize what you mean, but you have also added "unless" which infers that the state does have the "right" if it meets some unstated qualifier.

    The state can only regulate. We give it the power to regulate. We posess rights which override this power.

    There is nothing in state law that addresses open carry. State law only regulates concealed carry. Therefore, pre-emption would remove the power of municipalities to regulate open carry unless........nothing. It would remove the power of municipalities to regulate open carry period.
    1.PS's can only "regulate" per statue 21.750, but they prohibit the loaded carry of weapons throughout their jurisdictions...This is a prohibition, not a regulation.

    2. You are incorrect. Please read Chapter 571.030 (5, 8, 10) concealment is no part of the offense. MOSC has stated same in opinion's I don't have handy, but you can look them up yourself.

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    It certainly looks good, Shawn. The author has one possible typo
    ...and incorporates the justification defenses found in chapter 563. ...
    Looking at the other language that probably should have been "...chapter 563, RSMo."

    I think we can expect a full scale opposition from the Missouri state prosecutor's organization who fought successfully last year to limit Castle Doctrine protections to one's home or vehicle. They successfully killed the effort to expand that protection in 563 to include anywhere one is lawfully entitled to be. They'll fight this as well, especially, I suspect, that prosecutor from Cape Girardeau. But even more will be the behind-the-scenes lobbying by Missouri Municipal League and their members in local governments. MML seems to be determinedly on the side of putting maximum power in the hands of municipal governments and restricting the rights of the residents of those cities. That's just my impression, of course. :?

    I'll be contacting my Representative, Ward Franz, and asking him to support it.

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    brolin_1911a1 wrote:
    It certainly looks good, Shawn. The author has one possible typo
    ...and incorporates the justification defenses found in chapter 563. ...
    Looking at the other language that probably should have been "...chapter 563, RSMo."

    I think we can expect a full scale opposition from the Missouri state prosecutor's organization who fought successfully last year to limit Castle Doctrine protections to one's home or vehicle. They successfully killed the effort to expand that protection in 563 to include anywhere one is lawfully entitled to be. They'll fight this as well, especially, I suspect, that prosecutor from Cape Girardeau. But even more will be the behind-the-scenes lobbying by Missouri Municipal League and their members in local governments. MML seems to be determinedly on the side of putting maximum power in the hands of municipal governments and restricting the rights of the residents of those cities. That's just my impression, of course. :?

    I'll be contacting my Representative, Ward Franz, and asking him to support it.
    Brolin, Good catch. That was in fact removed from the copy I sent to Scott. I'll get it taken care of. I'vemet the MML lobbyist at the capital before and he hasrequested for me to get him the court cases that I talk about to the committee's. I have posted thison all themo gun group sites,we just needto ensureno other bills or amendments get added to it.

    You might want to check some of the post from last year to see if your rep supported last year or not.

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    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    i just contacted Rep. Fallert asking him for support. he's a Dim but he's also a country boy, so who knows? i'll give his office a call in the morning as well.

    i also emailed all my MO pro-gun friends about this.

    let's get on our Reps folks and try to get this done this year!!




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    You can use this website to get names and addresses for your representative.

    http://www.votesmart.org/

    It also gives their voting history, all kinds of info.

    I sent letters to both addresses for my House Rep. Do we need to contact our senators to get the ball rolling on the other side of congress?

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    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    Griz wrote:
    You can use this website to get names and addresses for your representative.

    http://www.votesmart.org/

    It also gives their voting history, all kinds of info.

    I sent letters to both addresses for my House Rep. Do we need to contact our senators to get the ball rolling on the other side of congress?
    thanks for the link Griz, and welcome to the forum!

    through that link i found that Fallert (my guy) voted 'yes' for passage of HB 668 last year. hopefully he will be on board with HB 2150 this year.

    i don't think i should wonder about Engler should this bill make it to the Senate. he's a pro 2A kind of guy. but i will still contact him about it even while it is still in the House.

    then again, this bill is a kind of different issue. the way i stated my stance to Fallert was that it would be better for the state to have final say of all firearm regulation vs the current confusing patchwork of laws. i never even mentioned OC.

    IMO not mentioning OC as our reason for supporting HB 2150 might lend credence to our position in the eyes of our Reps/Senators. just like when we are in public we try not to make OC'ers look like kooks/radicals.

    i also think that the way this bill is worded it will get more traction than previous incantations. considering that it never really addresses any form of carry but merely grants the state total control over firearm legislation/regulation, it may get a lot of support from both sides of the isle.

    and we all know how States love to have control over things.



    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
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  11. #11
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    i just got a return email from Fallert. it was a non-committal response (typical) but he did say he was pro 2A

    quote:

    Thanks for taking the time to write regarding HB2150. I am always supportive of 2nd amendment rights and will follow this legislation as it moves through the process.

    Thanks again

    Joe

    end quote:


    i guess that's better than a 'hell no i don't care what you think' kinda reply. anybody contact and/or hear from their Reps?


    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
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    I wrote Ward Franz about the pending Castle Doctrine bill and HB2150 and received the following response:

    "Chris, "Thank you for your email. I will talk to Brian Munzlinger about your point. It makes more sense to me than the language used. Anyway, we will see what he says. On HB2150 I will definitely support when it comes to the floor. Once again, thanks for your help.
    Ward"

    The "language" Ward is referring to is that of the current Castle Doctrine bill which seems more concerned with allowing one to shoot trespassers on one's property than with enabling one to protect oneself in public.

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    Broondog wrote:
    Thanks for taking the time to write regarding HB2150. I am always supportive of 2nd amendment rights and will follow this legislation as it moves through the process.

    Thanks again

    Joe
    Wow, that's pretty non supportive of the bill itself.



    Sent letters off to Belinda Harris to both address in Jefferson City and Hillsboro. I'll let you know if she writes back.

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    Broondog wrote:
    i just got a return email from Fallert. it was a non-committal response (typical) but he did say he was pro 2A

    quote:

    Thanks for taking the time to write regarding HB2150. I am always supportive of 2nd amendment rights and will follow this legislation as it moves through the process.

    Thanks again

    Joe

    end quote:


    i guess that's better than a 'hell no i don't care what you think' kinda reply. anybody contact and/or hear from their Reps?

    That sounds to me like "I'm not about to support this one but I don't want to anger a possible voter in an election year" response. That's the sort of response you get from the legislators who hide in the restroom then claim they missed the vote.

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    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    brolin_1911a1 wrote:
    Broondog wrote:
    i just got a return email from Fallert. it was a non-committal response (typical) but he did say he was pro 2A

    quote:

    Thanks for taking the time to write regarding HB2150. I am always supportive of 2nd amendment rights and will follow this legislation as it moves through the process.

    Thanks again

    Joe

    end quote:


    i guess that's better than a 'hell no i don't care what you think' kinda reply. anybody contact and/or hear from their Reps?

    That sounds to me like "I'm not about to support this one but I don't want to anger a possible voter in an election year" response. That's the sort of response you get from the legislators who hide in the restroom then claim they missed the vote.
    well, he is a Dim after all. it is more of a response than i truly expected though.


    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
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    Maybe it is just me, but this is not full premption. Still allows for the regulation of open carrying.

    [size=][/size]3. Nothing contained in this section shall prohibit any ordinance of any political subdivision which conforms exactly with any of the provisions of sections 571.010 to 571.070, RSMo, with appropriate penalty provisions, [or which regulates the open carrying of firearms readily capable of lethal use] or the discharge of firearms within a jurisdiction, provided such ordinance complies with the provisions of section 252.243, RSMo, and incorporates the justification defenses found in chapter 563.

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    aircooledbusnut wrote:
    Maybe it is just me, but this is not full premption. Still allows for the regulation of open carrying.

    3. Nothing contained in this section shall prohibit any ordinance of any political subdivision which conforms exactly with any of the provisions of sections 571.010 to 571.070, RSMo, with appropriate penalty provisions, [or which regulates the open carrying of firearms readily capable of lethal use] or the discharge of firearms within a jurisdiction, provided such ordinance complies with the provisions of section 252.243, RSMo, and incorporates the justification defenses found in chapter 563.
    You missed the brackets [] in the bill's text.

    3. Nothing contained in this section shall prohibit any ordinance of any political subdivision which conforms exactly with any of the provisions of sections 571.010 to 571.070, RSMo, with appropriate penalty provisions, [or which regulates the open carrying of firearms readily capable of lethal use] or the discharge of firearms within a jurisdiction, provided such ordinance complies with the provisions of section 252.243, RSMo, and incorporates the justification defenses found in chapter 563.
    Those brackets indicate that the bracketed text is part of current law but will be removed from the statute if the bill passes. Similarly, the bold text in the bill is language that would be added to the present law.

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    Thank you for clarifying. That is good to know.

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    Any clue when this bill will pass?

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    DarenGlock23 wrote:
    Any clue when this bill will pass?
    None. As of now, it's had its second reading but not been assigned to a committee.
    http://www.house.mo.gov/content.aspx...lls/hb2150.htm

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    Thanks for the info

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    I have also posted this to other sites to helpkeep this billmoving in the right direction. The more calls he gets the better....


    Guys,

    Everybody should both call and email the Speaker: Ronald Richard and ask what committee that HB 2150 is going to? It would be nice to have it go to the Agri-Business. Brian Munzlinger is the Chair and helped it pass last year.

    We need to get on this, as this bill needs to get a lot of attention.
    Speaker Ronald Richard: Phone: 573-751-2173 E-Mail: Ronald.Richard@house.mo.gov

    This is the bill we want to focus on this year and they need to hear from us. If you get a response from his office, please post it for us!

    Thanks!!

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    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    email sent and call made.

    Judy, the lady who answered the phone at his office, said she would pass along my request to nudge the bill into committee, and my support of same.

    i did my part.......who's next?


    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
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    Broondog wrote:
    email sent and call made.

    Judy, the lady who answered the phone at his office, said she would pass along my request to nudge the bill into committee, and my support of same.

    i did my part.......who's next?

    Thanks BD!

    I've sent two emails so far..lol...wonder how many they get. I was told that they get assigned to committee's on Wednesdays? When you call, make sure that they take a note that you want this bill put in the Agri-business committee.

    Give Judy a big THANK YOU!

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    FYI, The House is adjourned until Monday the 15th.

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