Draw Or No Draw

i don't know about remaining in control Lurchiron, i wouldn't be in control of much, myself, and my firearm. i would be gambling that the criminal wants the money, and not to shoot anyone, i would probably be a target the minute he zeroes in on me, probably hunkered down behind the beer cases, and bags of dog food. i wouldn't be advancing, only defending. i just hope the clerk doesn't freeze, nor not cooperate, and just give up the cash. again, i stress, i have no police authority, i have no obligation to protect anyone else, nor any obligation to stop a crime. i know that sounds terrible, but it might keep me from doing 20 years somewhere. the clerk is responsible for their own safety, they should be carrying as i would, or have one planted under the counter in reach. if the clerk starts to fumble, and the criminal becomes insistant, and his attention, angrily, is drawn back to the clerk, and he readies to shoot, rather than just waving the gun around-brandishing in the extreme- so to speak, then yes, i would deem that the clerk is going to get it, and move from cover to intercept.

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ref; the store robbery at apu's; if the scumbag has the gun on the clerk, but is looking me over, most likely he is facing the clerk, since i'm deep in the store, any shot would be out toward the front of the usually glass front of the building. a .40 cal might go through the 'bag, and out into the public domain. backstop issue to me. also since the 'bag is facing the clerk, my shot would probably be a shot to the back. i wonder if that one might run me afoul of the DA. and then ofcourse, as all commented, there is the risk of hitting the poor clerk. i would still stick with, down and draw, and cover. if it was apparent the scum was about to shoot the clerk, i would have to weigh my decisions at that moment.

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dang, i guess he who starts the thread must carry it. it's sunday today, and my day off, so i expect double time for this, or at least time and a half. trying to stay relevant here. this one is pretty much a slam dunk, but it's a real possible scenario, so away we go; your traveling in wisconsin, by interstate. you stop for gas, and the call of nature at a small truck stop. you go through the car carry bit, and holster up, check the building as you go in, no- no firearms signs there. go in, pay for your gas, and head to the head, so to speak. it's a relatively clean 3 staller. you saunter past the ever present condom dispensing machine, and choose the stall to the wall. you own the place, at the moment. you've settled in and are running complex mathematical calculations in your head, and solving the mysteries of the universe, when you hear the washroom door open. your firearm is in location (fill in the blank). suddenly the stall door next to you opens, and some guy is standing on the toilet next to you, peering down over the wall, with a knife in his hand. he's not close enough to carve you, but he's there. now there's another one outside your stall door, yanking on it. you can't see what he's got, or not got on him. your just sitting there, your in mid stream so to speak..............draw or no draw?

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i'll chime in on this one; the x factors alarm me on this one. duty to retreat is gone, i ain't got nowhere to go. i'm the fish in the barrel. the guy outside the door is a bad x factor, don't know if he's got a gun pointed at my stall door, or nothing. if he starts blasting i'm screwed, no positive target, no assured back stop, and that flimsy can door ain't gonna stop a round, nor hold up to his assault long. i can't stand up cause then i'm a larger target, and in range of the chump hanging over the wall, with knife in hand next to me. since i go condition 3, i'd brandish to the guy on the wall, and rack one in for the audio benefit of all concerned, and hope like hell the guy on the wall disappears, the guy outside my door disappears, and i hear the sound of feet being beat out of there. it's a no win possibilty to me.

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well, one thing is for sure. if i survived the situation, it would have a definite laxative effect on me. hope they gave me a full roll on that stall. after i quit shaking, i would stop to wash my hands, as is correct, before i went back to my regularly scheduled programming.:lol:

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:

Do not draw immediately. Wait for him to move. Do not let him know you are armed. Since you are in the back, you have time. Best case is that he takes the money and runs. A cool head will prevail. Going only by your description of the scenerio, if you were to instantly draw and fire at the felonbut hit the clerk, you will be successfully prosecuted.

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Are you sure about that? Can you please enlighten us on how you can predict what a jury of 12 would decide?

I would say, you would possibly be prosecuted if the DA was so inclined to open the can of worms that most other DA's wouldn't. Would that prosecution be successful? Only the jury could answer that. IMHO there is only a very slim chance.

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No Draw again. Once more, there must be no hesitation between a draw and a shot. You never draw to threaten.

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dang, i guess he who starts the thread must carry it...............draw or no draw?

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McX,
You have such an obvious talent for concocting scenarios, why not join IDPA and turn your ideas into live fire situations. They are always looking for new ideas to challenge the shooters and I have no doubt you could do that!

PS, I think the toilet problem should include a newspaper to read....

Dave

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35403980/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts


updated 2 hours, 51 minutes ago

RICHMOND, Calif. - Police were seeking a hooded gunman who horrified the congregation of a San Francisco Bay area church when he paced the aisles then pulled out a gun and shot two teenagers.
No arrests had been made or suspects named in the Sunday shooting at New Gethsemane Church of God in Christ in Richmond, police said.
The gunman flanked by two companions in hooded sweatshirts walked into the church, scanned the pews and fired about five shots, hitting a 14-year-old boy and a 19-year-old man in front of about 100 people, Richmond police Sgt. Bisa French said.
Charles Miller, a 64-year-old deacon at the church, said members of the congregation were about to tell the men to take off their hoods when the shooting began.'Everyone hit the floor'
"I was listening to the choir and all of a sudden there was a 'pop pop pop pop pop,'" Miller told the San Francisco Chronicle. "Everyone hit the floor. I didn't know the shooting was inside the church at first, until I heard all of the hollering and screaming."
The 14-year-old was hit in the shoulder and the 19-year-old was struck in the leg, French said. Both victims, whose names haven't been released, were hospitalized and were expected to survive. There were no other injuries.
"It's terrible when you come to the house of the Lord and start doing this," Miller said. "It's just something you don't do."
Investigators believe the men were targeting someone in the church but don't know if the two who were hit were the intended targets, French said.

French said investigators were interviewing witnesses to see if anyone recognized the men.
A handful of congregants returned to the church after police processed the crime scene and finished the service.
"We went on and had church anyway," Miller told the Chronicle. "We were giving thanks that nobody was killed. We wanted to go and serve the Lord anyway."
The small, off-white two-story church is surrounded by a red-and white wrought-iron fence in a residential section of Richmond, a city of 103,000 on the eastern Bay shoreline north of Oakland and Berkeley.
The city has already seen seven homicides in 2010, and garnered national attention because of the alleged gang rape by as many as 10 people of a 16-year-old girl outside an October homecoming dance at Richmond High School, with as many as 20 bystanders allegedly watching.

What about this? Would you draw now?

For me there is no question. I would have drawn and fired at the church incident and with out a doubt drawn at the rape incident and fired if attacked by the rapists as obviously all of the bystanders were not going to do anything to stop the rapist's activity.

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i don't know what the idpa is...... i see the dancing bannana has some new moves! technology advances! ....

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