I do believe introductions are in order.

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To be fair I wouldn't shoot down a tree just anywhere. This was in an unmarked campground high in the mountains that took a full half-hour of driving on a tiny dirt road to reach. I doubt any government service vehicles go up there anymore, and even if they did ban camping and/or shooting it would be extremely difficult to enforce. There was already a large number of felled trees and we figured one more wouldn't make a difference. That's definitely not something I would do at the Sultan Pit.

As for the glass bottle, well, we did clean up our ammo casings before we left. I don't think the bottle got picked up except for maybe the base which was the biggest piece left after being shot.

I understand that there's things we could have done better when shooting but I don't want it to sound like we just left a whole bunch of garbage and stuff up there. I'm an Eagle Scout and one of the big things I learned was to leave no trace when camping. When we left that campsite it was definitely cleaner than when we got there because we picked up numerous beer cans and older ammo casings that had been there for a long while.

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Actually you and your buddies committed a crime by destroying that tree.:X

You have videos on youtube showing this act, does not matter if no one was around.

Eagle Scout would know better it is illegal to destroy a live tree, this is just stupid.

If I remember correctly isn't it illegal to shoot in campgrounds as well?

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Uh-oh, edit your posts and get rid of the evidence before bigdave snitches on you to the puhlease!

I sense tension!!!

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Poosharker wrote:

Uh-oh, edit your posts and get rid of the evidence before bigdave snitches on you to the puhlease!

I sense tension!!!

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Childish comments by Children.

You had no clue what he posted was out side the law? Figures.

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BigDave wrote:

Poosharker wrote:

Uh-oh, edit your posts and get rid of the evidence before bigdave snitches on you to the puhlease!

I sense tension!!!

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Childish comments by Children.

You had no clue what he posted was out side the law? Figures.

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You're probably too old to know what a wink is anymore, anyway. :lol:

Maybe to be a good citizen, he'll go out and plant a new tree and record that!

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I'm not worried, and I'm fairly sure I'm not going to get in trouble. I could be wrong, maybe this'll come back and bite me in the ass in 20 years.

Anyways like I said there were other trees that had quite obviously been cut down with saws and so one more wasn't going to be a big problem. We weren't in a national park and we weren't cutting down the tree for commercial purposes (i.e. we weren't going to sell the lumber.) I may not know the laws about logging, but I don't think anybody's going to come after me for shooting down a tree.

In all honesty we only shot it down as an experiment of sorts. If you've ever seen the movie Surviving the Game there's a part where the character played by Ice-T shoots down a tree with a few blasts from a SPAS-12. We wanted to see if it was possible. We just didn't have buckshot or slugs or whatever was used in the movie. It really was less about target practice and more about finding out how much it took to destroy something. Again, that's not something I would do just anywhere. I'm not irresponsible with guns, I observe all the rules of safety, and I clean up the results of my shooting. Given that I don't think there's anything wrong with having a little fun once in a while.

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Keroman wrote:

I'm not worried, and I'm fairly sure I'm not going to get in trouble. I could be wrong, maybe this'll come back and bite me in the ass in 20 years.

Anyways like I said there were other trees that had quite obviously been cut down with saws and so one more wasn't going to be a big problem. We weren't in a national park and we weren't cutting down the tree for commercial purposes (i.e. we weren't going to sell the lumber.) I may not know the laws about logging, but I don't think anybody's going to come after me for shooting down a tree.

In all honesty we only shot it down as an experiment of sorts. If you've ever seen the movie Surviving the Game there's a part where the character played by Ice-T shoots down a tree with a few blasts from a SPAS-12. We wanted to see if it was possible. We just didn't have buckshot or slugs or whatever was used in the movie. It really was less about target practice and more about finding out how much it took to destroy something. Again, that's not something I would do just anywhere. I'm not irresponsible with guns, I observe all the rules of safety, and I clean up the results of my shooting. Given that I don't think there's anything wrong with having a little fun once in a while.

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Trying to justify your actions by what others do, does not cut it from a person claiming to be an Eagle Scout where honor and respect thrive from and doing the right thing.

It is illegal to damage or cut down a live tree in what ever manner you want to perceive it to be (you did not learn that in scouts?).

Not only should you observer the rules of safety but the laws as well and just as important as the other.

As to legal ramifications there has been other acts prosecuted from videos on the internet do be so sure you will skate by.

When it comes to handling and carrying firearms for defense or recreation, one must be mature and responsible and respecting the laws as well.

The concept of removing anything to do with these acts off the internet would be in your best interest legally and financially.

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If it's illegal to cut down a live tree, how do lumberjacks stay out of prison? Do you go to jail for cutting down a tree in your own yard? Last I checked, trees aren't an endangered species, and there is no law against cutting them down. If you're cutting on someone's land without their permission, then that's a civil matter.

Yeah, for an Eagle scout that seems a little weird, but like he said it wasn't on public land. Let's cut the guy some slack, eh? Message sent and received, I think.

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antispam540 wrote:

If it's illegal to cut down a live tree, how do lumberjacks stay out of prison? Do you go to jail for cutting down a tree in your own yard? Last I checked, trees aren't an endangered species, and there is no law against cutting them down. If you're cutting on someone's land without their permission, then that's a civil matter.

Yeah, for an Eagle scout that seems a little weird, but like he said it wasn't on public land. Let's cut the guy some slack, eh? Message sent and received, I think.

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Oh I dont know about lumberjacks as they have contracts to cut trees! And when it comes to your yard versus BLM, State Land or Federal a different matter then your home, wow cannot believe I needed to clarify that.

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And I cannot believe I need to clarify this. What my friends and I did was not a big deal. Nobody in any position of authority is going to care, especially given that this was in an area where a big chunk of land had been bulldozed into high dirt berms, and a large number of trees were already felled. If anybody decides to take me to court over it, well, they'll have a difficult time proving that those videos were taken anywhere besides my own property.

Being an Eagle Scout doesn't mean I can't damage nature in any way shape or form. To do that I'd pretty much have to be a vegan, and there's no way I'm going that far. I know about conservation and got my Environmental Science merit badge. One less tree in that forest isn't going to make a lick of difference to anyone but the termites that probably lived in it. Is that why you're here BigDave? Did the termites send you? Well I suppose you can tell them I'm sorry. They've probably found a new home by now anyways.

My friends were not being irresponsible or unsafe in any way. We cleaned up after ourselves, we didn't bring alcohol along because we had guns with us, and we observed all gun safety rules and made sure that anybody who didn't know the rules had time to learn them and extensive supervision. When you start complaining about a tree getting shot down it just seems like you're nitpicking. Nothing you say is going to change my mind. It's not like I'm going to go out and shoot at trees every day. Hell, now that I've done it I don't feel a particular need to go do it ever again. If I've upset you by shooting that tree then, well, I guess I'll have to learn to live with your disappointment.

So, was this a forum about open carrying guns or was it a forum about wildlife conservation? If it's the latter then I must've clicked a wrong link somewhere. If it's the former then let's get back to talking about guns. Any longer on the tree issue and I'm going to wonder if there's trolls about.

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Welcome. Check out some good reads here and try not to do anything stupid. This here's open carry country. :?

Since you're not where I am, that means you are instantly better off. Remember that you always have something to be thankful for. Not just your right to bear arms but your right to live free.

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Keroman wrote:

And I cannot believe I need to clarify this. What my friends and I did was not a big deal. Nobody in any position of authority is going to care, especially given that this was in an area where a big chunk of land had been bulldozed into high dirt berms, and a large number of trees were already felled. If anybody decides to take me to court over it, well, they'll have a difficult time proving that those videos were taken anywhere besides my own property.

Being an Eagle Scout doesn't mean I can't damage nature in any way shape or form. To do that I'd pretty much have to be a vegan, and there's no way I'm going that far. I know about conservation and got my Environmental Science merit badge. One less tree in that forest isn't going to make a lick of difference to anyone but the termites that probably lived in it. Is that why you're here BigDave? Did the termites send you? Well I suppose you can tell them I'm sorry. They've probably found a new home by now anyways.

My friends were not being irresponsible or unsafe in any way. We cleaned up after ourselves, we didn't bring alcohol along because we had guns with us, and we observed all gun safety rules and made sure that anybody who didn't know the rules had time to learn them and extensive supervision. When you start complaining about a tree getting shot down it just seems like you're nitpicking. Nothing you say is going to change my mind. It's not like I'm going to go out and shoot at trees every day. Hell, now that I've done it I don't feel a particular need to go do it ever again. If I've upset you by shooting that tree then, well, I guess I'll have to learn to live with your disappointment.

So, was this a forum about open carrying guns or was it a forum about wildlife conservation? If it's the latter then I must've clicked a wrong link somewhere. If it's the former then let's get back to talking about guns. Any longer on the tree issue and I'm going to wonder if there's trolls about.

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This a forum about the RESPONSIBLE open carry and USE of firearms of all types. Shooting down one tree may not seem like a big deal to you, and maybe it is not a big deal in your eyes. On the other hand there are a couple anti gun groups that live for the moment that they can find anything that will put a blemish on gun owners. You, my friend, have just given them another opportunity. I find that more disgusting than shooting the tree.

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Wow, everyone needs to just calm down!

BigDave, if you want to call shooting down a tree illegal, CITE IT. Otherwise please limit your disparaging comments to referring to the act as "against BigDaves rules of proper tree hugging" or something along those lines.

Personally I don't give a rip that he shot a tree, at least in the circumstances he described at the location. I go out and chop several ofthose leafy little buggers down every year! Then I spend all winter BURNING them. I must be very very evil. Next time I go out for firewood maybe I will use a rifle instead of a chainsaw.

I don't think anything he has done, including uploading to youtube, makes one lick of difference in the mind of anyone about the good/bad of guns.

So I shall join poosharker in saying welcome to OCDO Keroman! poosharker is good peoples, so is DEROS72, and most everyone else. Don't worry about Dave, he trolls around every now and then and incites some benign welcome threat into a s-storm, but don't take it personally. Enjoy OCDO, welcome to the community! :celebrate

CRA

"Save a tree, eat a beaver!"

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Chris.R.Anderson wrote:

Wow, everyone needs to just calm down!

BigDave, if you want to call shooting down a tree illegal, CITE IT. Otherwise please limit your disparaging comments to referring to the act as "against BigDaves rules of proper tree hugging" or something along those lines.

Personally I don't give a rip that he shot a tree, at least in the circumstances he described at the location. I go out and chop several ofthose leafy little buggers down every year! Then I spend all winter BURNING them. I must be very very evil. Next time I go out for firewood maybe I will use a rifle instead of a chainsaw.

I don't think anything he has done, including uploading to youtube, makes one lick of difference in the mind of anyone about the good/bad of guns.

So I shall join poosharker in saying welcome to OCDO Keroman! poosharker is good peoples, so is DEROS72, and most everyone else. Don't worry about Dave, he trolls around every now and then and incites some benign welcome threat into a s-storm, but don't take it personally. Enjoy OCDO, welcome to the community! :celebrate

CRA

"Save a tree, eat a beaver!"

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Well the next time you Dad or Grandpa takes you cutting firewood have him stop by the Forest Service there in town and asked them about cutting down those trees!
You will find out in a real hurry you are full of it!

This thread has actually brought into the concept about maturity which I see you are lacking as well otherwise you would know better then destroying trees when not authorized to do so.

edited it to be a little nicer

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i would never cut down a tree with an axe or a gun, unless i was going use it for lumber or fire wood, anymore than i would kill a dear unless i was going to eat it!

as a scout you should remember to always be prepared, so i shouldnt need to tell you; always save a mag of ammo for a rainy day, or a bear!

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Sorry Keroman, all your attempts to justify your actions just don't make it. Per my original post, your actions were irresponsible no matter how much you try to justify them. This may be an "unmarked campground" but if you and your "bud's" found it some tree-hugger will probably find it too. Just because you don't think any Ranger will give a crap you can sure bet that that tree hugger will be happy to take a picture of the bullet holes in the tree you shot down and share it with every anti-gun group that will listen. Every hearing, where government agencies are gathering testimony to support closing another shooting area will attract people with pictures and stories just like this. Thanks for nothing. Next time think of the big picture, not just your fantasies of re-enacting some movie scene.

You say you are soon join the Navy. Wonder how your trying to justify some dumbass stunt while there will work out for you?

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Ask yourself this:

If these video's were on the 6 o'clock news and your grandfather, father and you were sitting next to each other. Would you be proud?

If these video's were on the 6 o'clock news and the authorites: sherriff, blm, etc were next to you. Would you be proud?

I know I wouldn't, I know that the board members that I have met and haven't met would not be either.

That is definately not the first impression any of us would want to make.

Keroman, there is a very diverse group of members to this board. From very young and full of vigor and energy that are still learning the laws, ethics and respect of society. To, the wise beyond their years who have seen, served and experience more than you and I combined.

Own up to what you did, everyone has made mistakes. Men own their mistakes, learn from them and do not repeat them ever again.

Procede with caution, an open mind, respect and courtesy and this board is a great forum for information and an eye into the experiences of others.

I hope that you do not get discouraged with the intesity of the conversation here, it is a good thing. You will find no small mistake goes unnoticed, you must have a thick skin but also an open mind and the willingness to learn.

LIVE FREE OR DIE!

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gogodawgs wrote:

Own up to what you did, everyone has made mistakes. Men own their mistakes, learn from them and do not repeat them ever again.



I hope that you do not get discouraged with the intesity of the conversation here, it is a good thing. You will find no small mistake goes unnoticed, you must have a thick skin but also an open mind and the willingness to learn.

LIVE FREE OR DIE!

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+1+1=2!

What's done is done. *personal suggestion, if you don't more people b*tching about this, just take it off youtube, keep it on your own comp*

Just don't do it again....

If you want to regain "respect" from any of the pissed off members here, maybe you should consider coming down to the cleanup in May.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/36127-1.html

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I personally think this whole thread's gone silly. Welcome to the forums and get used to it - every thread turns into people bashing something.

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BigDave wrote:

Well the next time you Dad or Grandpa takes you cutting firewood have him stop by the Forest Service there in town and asked them about cutting down those trees!
You will find out in a real hurry you are full of it!

This thread has actually brought into the concept about maturity which I see you are lacking as well otherwise you would know better then destroying trees when not authorized to do so.

edited it to be a little nicer

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Well BigDave, since you insist on degrading the conversation to analyzing the perceived maturity of people over a text based internet forum, lets try it on you!

You love to incite petty arguments for no reason at all on said forum, presumably for your own enjoyment. You continually refer to something as illegal and wrong, even after having been asked for citation (and I guarantee you not a stick of my firewood is acquired in any way that is illegal or immoral). You seem to be implying a 3 generation string of ignorance and/or stupidity in my family by saying that we aren't capable of realizing how to legally acquire heating wood, but that we would instead go to a forest governed by the Forest Service and STEAL the wood.

Until you have gained several levels of maturity, I see that my light hearted attempt to fend off your assault on our new member for more or less no reason, and diffuse the situation, will not be effective. So how about this, you go crawl back to your troll den and leave us all alone until you are fully in possession of the maturity you are so quick to accuse others of lacking.

By the way, I don't know about your family, but as for mine, we have long since started wearing shoes, put on a shirt under our bib-overalls and even bathing! Boy, haven't rednecks come a long ways the unauthorized wanton destruction of green leafy buggers like you imagine we do?

This thread ready to die yet? Any time would do, we aren't here to listen to juvenile debates about the rights of a pine. Only on the rights of men with guns, and how to protect those rights.

Edit: Spelling

CRA