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Thread: Newest wording for guns on employers' premises

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    3. New wording on HB 171, which prohibits employers from banning guns in locked vehicles

    Here is the wording that passed out of committee this morning. The new wording is in (D): § 18.2-308.1:01. Firearms in locked vehicles; immunity from liability.

    A. No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall maintain, establish, or enforce any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting a person who may lawfully possess a firearm from storing a firearm locked in or locked to a firearms rack in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking space, or other similar property set aside for motor vehicles.

    B. No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall be liable in any civil action for any occurrence that results from or is connected to the use of a firearm that was lawfully stored pursuant to subsection A, unless the person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity commits a criminal act, willful misconduct or gross negligence involving the use of the firearm.

    C. Any person may enforce this section by filing a petition for injunction in the court of record of the county or city in which the person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity prohibiting the firearm is located. The court shall award actual damages, court costs, and reasonable attorney fees to a prevailing party.

    D. This section shall not apply to (i) property on which a person is prohibited from possessing a firearm by § 18.2-308.1; (ii) vehicles on property (a) to which access is restricted or limited through the use of a gate, security station, or other means of restricting or limiting general access onto the property; or (b) upon which a building occupied by a single employer and its affiliated entities is located and in which access to the building is restricted or limited by card access, a security station, or other means of restricting or limiting general public access into the building; (iii) vehicles owned or leased by an employer or business entity and used by an employee in the course of his employment; or (iv) personal vehicles while such vehicles are being used for the transport of consumers of programs licensed by the Department of Behavioral Health and Developmental Services; (v) vehicles on property controlled by an employer required to develop and implement a security plan under federal law or regulation.


    [pvc] I am not thrilled with that new wording in (D). Basically this law covers you if the parking lot can be accessed by the public without some kind of restriction by a gate or guard, and the parking lot is either shared by more than one unrelated company or the company owning the parking lot has no public restrictions on going into the building (guard or card access). This is a step forward, but not as big a step as I would like. [\pvc]
    The new wording pretty much excludes my being able to have my gun stored in my vehicle, as there is no place for me to park for work that is not dedicated parking for my employer or for other businesses.

    I gotta think that this is an issue for most of us working for Beltway Bandits.

    Maybe not an issue for those in other industries or outside of NOVA.

  2. #2
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    See the update on the original thread for this bill:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/36245.html

    Even more so, I believe section (v) effectively eliminates all federal contractors, no matter where they are located within the state, and whether or not they have gated parking.

    The bill has been utterly gutted.

    TFred

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    Regular Member pyite's Avatar
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    To put it bluntly, the new wording f*cking sucks. It means my employers policy stands.

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    TFred wrote:
    See the update on the original thread for this bill:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/36245.html

    Even more so, I believe section (v) effectively eliminates all federal contractors, no matter where they are located within the state, and whether or not they have gated parking.

    The bill has been utterly gutted.

    TFred
    Daggonit, I looked for an existing thread.

    Didn't look all the way back to Jan 6.

    I agree that the bill is now meaningless.

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    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
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    I loved this Bill until section D. Many employers have fences, or gates and (the way I read this) even if they don't and you have to "card in" to the building, no gun in the car.

    Help me understand that: Access card to get in the building, means no gun in the car.

    Folks we have to get the "Gun free zone property owner liability act" going.

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    Regular Member crazydude6030's Avatar
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    Yep, rules me out too.

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    crazydude6030 wrote:
    Yep, rules me out too.

    Some city fire stations have locked gates for their firefightersto park, but not all. So if you are a firefighter and your station has a locked gate too bad. You forfeit your rights.

    This was the bill that I most wanted to see passed. This is garbage.

    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    T Dubya wrote:
    crazydude6030 wrote:
    Yep, rules me out too.
    Some city fire stations have locked gates for their firefightersto park, but not all. So if you are a firefighter and your station has a locked gate too bad. You forfeit your rights.

    This was the bill that I most wanted to see passed. This is garbage.
    How about, instead of complaining, you consider it a step in the right direction?

    Remember, just because a law is passed, that doesn't mean in can't be amended in a year or two.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Regular Member SAvage410's Avatar
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    Yes, it's a step in the right direction - it's just that so many of us, myself included, were hoping to be able to protect ourselves (sort of) at the office or in transit to/from, that this is a serious letdown.

    My office has controlled access with a security gate in the parking lot as well as via security card access to external (and even some internal) doors, so the bill is useless to me as it now stands.

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    "This section shall not apply to (i) property on which a person is prohibited from possessing a firearm by § 18.2-308.1; (ii) vehicles on property (a) to which access is restricted or limited through the use of a gate, security station, or other means of restricting or limiting general access onto the property; or (b) upon which a building occupied by a single employer and its affiliated entities is located and in which access to the building is restricted or limited by card access, a security station, or other means of restricting or limiting general public access into the building;"

    So basically, according to the section I underlined if the building you work in has doors which are controlled by badge reader or even a standard lock and physical key system you can't keep a firearm in your car while at work.

    This bill with the new wording has nullified itself for 99.99% of the public. All that before even being passed, now THAT is a prime example of government asshattary. I'm cranking out a memo to my representatives. This wording makes the law moot. You might as well say "You are permitted to carry a firearm unless that firearm is designed to expel a projectile in which case it is prohibited."
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

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    Changes make it worthless!!

    I don't agree with the "lets get it passed and fix it later". It is so far out of line that it is basically useless.


    Ric

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    Regular Member fairfax1's Avatar
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    vehicles on property controlled by an employer required to develop and implement a security plan under federal law or regulation.
    This sentence sounds like an exemption to the law for every federal contractor

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    fairfax1 wrote:
    vehicles on property controlled by an employer required to develop and implement a security plan under federal law or regulation.
    This sentence sounds like an exemption to the law for every federal contractor
    Cool... It seems I've discovered that "invisible font" again!

    TFred

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    AbNo wrote:
    T Dubya wrote:
    crazydude6030 wrote:
    Yep, rules me out too.
    Some city fire stations have locked gates for their firefightersto park, but not all. So if you are a firefighter and your station has a locked gate too bad. You forfeit your rights.

    This was the bill that I most wanted to see passed. This is garbage.
    How about, instead of complaining, you consider it a step in the right direction?

    Remember, just because a law is passed, that doesn't mean in can't be amended in a year or two.
    How about, instead you do a reality check. This bill is poo poo.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
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    Regular Member fairfax1's Avatar
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    pyite wrote:
    To put it bluntly, the new wording f*cking sucks. It means my employers policy stands.
    Couldn't have said it better myself.

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    The bill is absolutely worthless to me and my many co-workers right here in the Lynchburg area and no we are not Federal contractors.What a piece of garbage this has become.

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    This bill is worthless to me. How disappointing.

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    From the VA Alert PVC:

    http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/va...?RECID=4977025





    As we are considering what to do with HB 171, Delegate Pogge's parking
    lot bill, I wanted to get a handle ONLY on those of you that this bill
    would HELP. I do NOT want to hear from those that it wouldn't help -
    I know there are many of you.

    For it to help you, your place of employment must have a parking lot
    open to the public, not gated or with a guard controlling entrance AND
    your employer either is not the only building that the parking lot
    serves or your employer does NOT block public access to the building
    (either by a security card or a guard at the entrance).



    If he gets one phone callfrom a VCDLmember in support of thisand will helpthem I will be surprised.



    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    T Dubya wrote:
    From the VA Alert PVC:

    http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/va...?RECID=4977025





    As we are considering what to do with HB 171, Delegate Pogge's parking
    lot bill, I wanted to get a handle ONLY on those of you that this bill
    would HELP. I do NOT want to hear from those that it wouldn't help -
    I know there are many of you.

    For it to help you, your place of employment must have a parking lot
    open to the public, not gated or with a guard controlling entrance AND
    your employer either is not the only building that the parking lot
    serves or your employer does NOT block public access to the building
    (either by a security card or a guard at the entrance).



    If he gets one phone callfrom a VCDLmember in support of thisand will helpthem I will be surprised.


    It's a step in the right direction.

    I'm as disappointed as anybody, as it does nothing for me.

    And the language regarding my building having access control is totally irrelevant to my 2A rights while commuting, or on any stops I make on my way to/from work.

    But this is a base to build on. Gotta start somewhere. Better than having no new protections at all.

    I don't believe that this bill helps no one in the entire state of Virginia.

    And I REALLY hope that on one is giving Phil grief over this, but this alert implies otherwise. That's unacceptable, and pretty disappointing.

    He works hard for us, and he's not stupid. He knows how limiting the language is. He's not the author of this piece crap.

    /rant

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    No grief to Philip, but I think there are many folks who are very unhappy with this unexpected turn of events. Somehow in a committee that has generally been fairly friendly to self-defense issues, this went from a good bill that helps many Virginians, to a bill that has been gutted, and filled full of real loopholes (called "exceptions").

    From the nature of the exceptions, it appears to me that someone got ahold of this bill who believes that crime can't happen near workplaces that have cleared employees, or near workplaces that limit access to the general public. But since the purpose of this bill was to allow employees to protect themselves to and from work, the nature of their fellow employees, or public access to the facility has nothing to do with it.

    Someone was sold a barrel of rotten apples, and the entire pro-self defense community came away from this committee meeting with a large knife protruding from the middle of their backs.

    I'm split on whether to support this bill or not. I'm incensed that these committee members think my life is not worth protecting, just because I work for a company that has a fancy-dancy badge reader on the door. But at the same time, if we can get it passed as it is now, then certainly next year we can go back and raise all kinds of ruckus and demand that these ridiculous exceptions be taken out. Where is my equal protection under the law here?

    TFred

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    Good luck on your endeavor.

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    T Dubya wrote:
    AbNo wrote:
    How about, instead of complaining, you consider it a step in the right direction?

    Remember, just because a law is passed, that doesn't mean in can't be amended in a year or two.
    How about, instead you do a reality check. This bill is poo poo.
    Deal, but only if you check your tool box to fix that attitude of yours.

    There's no need for you and I to be fighting, we're on the same side.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    This bill now sucks big time!!!!

    I work for the shipyard in Newport News. WE are notallowed to have firearms in cars parked in the unsecured parking lots. The building I work in is located away from the main shipyard property.I work in a high crime area at night and have to drive through that area to and from work. I have had people walk up to my truck at intersections while stopped for traffic lightsdriving home after midnightwanting me to give them rides and trying to open my doors to get in. There have been several murders in the past few yearswithin 5 blocks of the property in any direction. At least 50 percent of the murders in Newport News happen in this south end of the city.

    At least 6 murders in the last couple yearshave beenwithin 50 yards of the fences around the property. Someone working day shift got caught in the path of a bullit that was fired on the street outside the front of the building when they left work an hour early(30 minutes before I came to work).Someone onone side of his vehicle riding a moped shot atsomeone in a car on the other side of his car . The bullit came through hispassenger window and lodged in his dash board. Twenty minutes later there was a murder 4 blocks down the street that may have been related.

    The building I work in is inside a fenced lot with 4 gates to access the parking lot which is exclusive parking for my company. All of thegates are unmanned and 2 are open 24/7/365. I need an electronic coded badge tobe able to enter the building. There are noguards working in the building day or night andno longer any guards that come from the main plant as of the first of the year to make rounds in the building at night. If anything happens in the building at night that involves fire or the need of police I am expected to call the guard service or company fire dept to respond which can take as long as 10 minutes for fire dept or longer for the guard force.

    I have no idea WTF a badge for electronic entry to the buildinghas anything to do with my $&*@%$# safety to and from work!!!!!!!
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    This is the type of story that Phil needs to go and show to the committee how the bizarre additions to an otherwise good bill have destroyed it.

    I could only support this bill if we added a portion that made any employer who excluded guns from an employees vehicle in a lot strictly liable for said employees safety until such time they could take up arms.

    Of course that won't happen....



    mobeewan wrote:
    This bill now sucks big time!!!!

    I work for the shipyard in Newport News. WE are not*allowed to have firearms in cars parked in the unsecured parking lots. The building I work in is located away from the main shipyard property.*I work in a high crime area at night and have to drive through that area to and from work. I have had people walk up to my truck at intersections while stopped for traffic lights*driving home after midnight*wanting me to give them rides and trying to open my doors to get in. There have been several murders in the past few years*within 5 blocks of the property in any direction. At least 50 percent of the murders in Newport News happen in this south end of the city.

    At least 6 murders in the last couple years*have been*within 50 yards of the fences around the property. *Someone working day shift got caught in the path of a bullit that was fired on the street outside the front of the building when they left work an hour early*(30 minutes before I came to work).*Someone on*one side of his vehicle riding a moped shot at*someone in a car on the other side of his car . The bullit came through his*passenger window and lodged in his dash board. Twenty minutes later there was a murder* 4 blocks down the street that may have been related.

    The building I work in is inside a fenced lot with 4 gates to access the parking lot which is exclusive parking for my company. All of the*gates are unmanned and 2 are open 24/7/365. I need an electronic coded badge to*be able to enter the building. There are no*guards working in the building day or night and**no longer any guards that come from the main plant as of the first of the year to make rounds in the building at night. If anything happens in the building at night that involves fire or the need of police I am expected to call the guard service or company fire dept to respond which can take as long as 10 minutes for fire dept or longer for the guard force.*

    I have no idea WTF a badge for electronic entry to the building*has anything to do with my $&*@%$# safety to and from work!!!!!!!*

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    I too am split on whether to support this bill or not.

    For me personally, none of the exceptions apply. I would be able to carry to and from work. As I see it the drive to and from work is the one time I can not carry now that is not my choice, unless I quit my job. This bill even as it is, would be a step forward.

    The problem I have is it leave so many people behind. I am the kind of 2A supporter, I am as concerned as much about the rights of my fellow Virginian as my own. I see our collective rights making me safer as well. The more bad guys don't know if someone might be carrying the less likely they are to give me a go.

    I guess the question for me is... Is it easier to fix the law or to try again from scratch. I know some that are 'left behind' will say of course and some will say it is easier to fix it, perhaps those like me the current weakened form of the law will still help.

    I would love to get PVC and others who's experience and wisdom I respect regarding these issues to share their opinion on the strategy to get to the end game fastest. Anger and issues with the bill aside, is it better to.....improve it later or start over even if that means some wont in the mean time, that this bill would help. If fixing it is no harder than starting over....then let me carry till it is fixed.


    That question is what has me split on this bill.





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