Harassed by a purported federal agent

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And I guess I'm going to head to the police station and talk to an officer, see if they can do anything.

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mpg9999 wrote:

I just remembered something else about the incident. When I went to the bathroom I noticed he was holding his phone up. The camera on it was pointed at me. It looked like he was pretending to text while taking a picture of me.

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You shold have gotten a picture of him and his girlfriend and his car too.

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user wrote:

You could just go to the police and report him as impersonating a police officer. The tag number coupled with your description should be sufficient. They generally don't like people posing as cops, federal or local.

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+1

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no badge, no id, no real.

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I went to the police station tonight and talked to a very helpful detective. He said it's unlikely that the guy was a federal agent. He also said impersonating an officer is only a class one misdemeanor, and they usually have to do more than just say they are an officer for a succesful conviction. He took the tag number down and went to his computer to look it up. Unfortunately I must have memorized it wrong before my friend wrote it down because the tag number belongs to a different vehicle than the one I saw. Without that info there isn't anything he can do, so I didn't file a report. I did get his card and he said that there is a year to file charges against the guy if he was indeed impersonating an officer.

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This is just another lesson for all of us. Be ready for an answer to the "I'm-a-federal-agent-who-knows-more-than-you" approach.

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Douche: "You a Police officer"
You : "nope"
Douche: "I'm a federal agent; you're not allowed to do that."
You: "Let me see your credentials. "
Douche: "I don't have to show you anything!"
You: "A federal agent would know they have to produce ID when identifying themselves" (take out cell phone) "tell you what Fox Mulder; I'll call the real police for you and we'll see which they think is more serious when they get here. . .my lawful action of open carry or your Felony act of impersonating a federal agent.

BTW OP: The real officer you spoke with after the fact seems confused. Impersonating a federal officer (agent of the United States government) is a federal crime and a felony (18 USC Sec. 912)

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Do you know how many years one will spend in prison for saying they are a federal agent when they are not? My first question. Not like this hasn't happened a few times before....



BTW, when asked to ID themselves they have to do so. Just ask the guy to show his ID. End of discussion :^). After that you can tell him to go.....

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ChinChin wrote:

Douche: "You a Police officer"
You : "nope"
Douche: "I'm a federal agent; you're not allowed to do that."
You: "Let me see your credentials. "
Douche: "I don't have to show you anything!"
You: "A federal agent would know they have to produce ID when identifying themselves" (take out cell phone) "tell you what Fox Mulder; I'll call the real police for you and we'll see which they think is more serious when they get here. . .my lawful action of open carry or your Felony act of impersonating a federal agent.

BTW OP: The real officer you spoke with after the fact seems confused. Impersonating a federal officer (agent of the United States government) is a federal crime and a felony (18 USC Sec. 912)

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The detective was probably referring to the Virginia law.

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mpg9999 wrote:

I went to the police station tonight and talked to a very helpful detective. He said it's unlikely that the guy was a federal agent. He also said impersonating an officer is only a class one misdemeanor, and they usually have to do more than just say they are an officer for a succesful conviction. He took the tag number down and went to his computer to look it up. Unfortunately I must have memorized it wrong before my friend wrote it down because the tag number belongs to a different vehicle than the one I saw. Without that info there isn't anything he can do, so I didn't file a report. I did get his card and he said that there is a year to file charges against the guy if he was indeed impersonating an officer.

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Could be you memorized theplate incorrectly, or could be the platewas improper. We always loved back in the day to catch guys that had several cars and only one valid plate. They would just move it from car to car. I wouldn't put it past a guy impersonating a LEO to do something like that. I would have taken a look at the DMV photo of the owner of the plate you provided and also checked that person's titled but not plated vehicles, if any. The thing was, you had to catch them on a public road, but one you did, the vehicle was impounded and usually yielded felony-level contraband. Catching someone like that was always a good day.

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Just a thought to the OP...

You didn't really say if you thought this guy was there because of the gun show or not, but if you got any impression at all that he may have been involved there, it may be worth the effort (if it's not inconvenient for you) to take a swing back through the parking lot today to see if you spot the truck...

TFred

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TFred wrote:

Just a thought to the OP...

You didn't really say if you thought this guy was there because of the gun show or not, but if you got any impression at all that he may have been involved there, it may be worth the effort (if it's not inconvenient for you) to take a swing back through the parking lot today to see if you spot the truck...

TFred

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I don't think so. I didn't see a stamp on his hand. We we're driving back to the gun show and I saw his truck go in a different direction.

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Please correct me here if I an in error, but isn't it true that a "federal agent" would have no jurisdiction or authority in such a matter that our OP related? Would not he be totally out of place and therefore even if he was a federal agent, you would not even have to think about doing anything he said or suggested?

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This is why you contact Ed and get some of his OC cards, and hit the VCDL table for the Va gun law cards.

Give him one of each.

If he asks if you "want to take it outside" call 911 and report being assaulted.

Having an audio recorder you can quickly turn on helps. Do some running commentary, including asking his name and agency affiliation, repeating his license number, etc. Doing so in a calm voice helps - it may be difficult to do at first.

If a badge is flashed, request to see it and to read the info on it. Impersonating a LEO is bad juju in Virginia. The feds frown on it too. If a badge is flashed and you are not allowed to inspect it, detail that for your audio recording.

If it turns out he is a valid LEO, you have a decision to make. Either argue the law on the street and most likely get arrested anyhow, or get arrested and then argue the law in court. Option #2 has the potential for avoiding "resisting arrest" and "obstruction of justice" charges being tacked on - YMMV.

It's insulting to have some yahoo try to bully you, whether they are a LEO who does not know the law or merely a jerk who does not know the law. I always carry the cards so folks have an opportunity to educate themselves. If they refuse the opportunity I start documenting and calling 911 - remember the first person to call is "the victim" and the other person is "the suspect".

stay safe.

skidmark

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SouthernBoy wrote:

Please correct me here if I an in error, but isn't it true that a "federal agent" would have no jurisdiction or authority in such a matter that our OP related? Would not he be totally out of place and therefore even if he was a federal agent, you would not even have to think about doing anything he said or suggested?

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Speaking from experience, federal LEOs can assert jurisdiction in a wide variety of situations, although they very rarely do so. This would definitely not be the case. Most federal LEOs I've known over the years would have, at best, simply advised the local PD that a crime was in progress. The federal guys usually also know the laws of the state in which they reside.

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mpg9999 wrote:

I decided to go to the Nations gun show in Chantilly this afternoon with a friend. We were having trouble finding parking so we decided to go grab some lunch first at the nearby Chipotle. There was a man at a table near us with who I assume was his girlfriend. I could tell he was looking at me. When we got up to leave and walked by he asked if I was a LEO. I told him no. After a couple seconds of silence he asked if it was loaded. I said yeah, of course. He then tells me that I can't do that. I tell him that yes, I can. He then claims he is a federal agent and that I can't have a loaded gun in a public place. I tell him once again that I can. He then says something along the lines of "do you want to take this outside? Are we going to have a problem?". I told him no and walked away, as I knew I wasn't going to get anywhere with him. He left right after we did, and I made a note of his license plate number (VA tags) and vehicle.

In hindsight, I really wish I had pressed the issue with him. I should have one, asked for ID once he claimed he was a federal agent. Then I should have offered to call the police to straighten this out. I'm really upset with myself that I didn't. The guy was being a jerk and sounding very aggressive.

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I seriously doubt he was any federal agent. If he was he should know Virginia gun laws and that you CAN have carry a loaded gun in public. BTW, do you have a CHP? If so you should have concealed it and let him make an a$$ of him self.:lol:

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9MM Owner wrote:

BTW, do you have a CHP? If so you should have concealed it and let him make an a$$ of him self.:lol:

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That is not an option at Chipotle as they do sell beer.

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skidmark wrote:

If he asks if you "want to take it outside" call 911 and report being assaulted.

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Yeah, that's the best comment I heard all day on this thread - takin' it outside is fightin' words, and a threat - I would have dialed 911 right there i front of his girlfriend and just stood their having somebody else begn to film him and her while you waited for the police to arrive - you could say somthing like:

"hi 911? I'm over here inChipotle at ____ - well there is a guyhere trying to get me to go outside as if he wants to fight with him or somthing and I happen to be carrying a handgun today and do not swish to fight him - can you please send a car over here to help? Thanks - I by he way, he mumbled somthing about being a federal agent so maybe he s mentally unstable and is armed - I'm the guy carrying a hndgun openly with an ____ colored shirt on. Thanks!"

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Were you at the Centreville Chipotle? If you were and you stepped outside, calling 911 wouldn't be necessary. All you had to do was yell "Police". I could probably hit a 7-iron from Chipotle to the police station.

I think FCPD officers are in that Chipotle quite often. That's where we ate during my ride along back in December.

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hunter45 wrote:

Were you at the Centreville Chipotle? If you were and you stepped outside, calling 911 wouldn't be necessary. All you had to do was yell "Police". I could probably hit a 7-iron from Chipotle to the police station.

I think FCPD officers are in that Chipotle quite often. That's where we ate during my ride along back in December.

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I'm not very familiar with the location, but there was a Costco there as well.