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Thread: I'm a little confused....

  1. #1
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    Okay, so, to my understanding, open carry is illegal in both Denver city and Denver county. However, is it technically Denver city if it is outside of the county? Also, because of so many unincorporated areas around the metro area it seems like "Denver" gets slapped on anything that doesn't have an organized city in it. Is it unlawful to carry in these areas?

    I'm thinking of like Rockies Auto's area.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Please see the Feb 8th postings in this thread.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    http://www.denvergov.org/denvermaps/...ferenceMap.pdf

    That's my most detailed map of Denver County/City you will ever need Ever in your whole life concerning carrying a handgun. You have the entire area- properly labeled and detailed with landmarks (lakes & such)

    Are you new to the Denver Metro area? Here's another map that may help http://www.denverhomeaccess.com/images/maphud.jpg

    Although Englewood looks like it's in Denver County, it's actually in Arapaho County.

    Basically I asked if you are new to the area because if you are in Denver city, you are in Denver County. If you are in Denver County, you cannot OC. Denver is a City & County all at the same time.

    Refer to:
    In the field of local government in the United States, a consolidated city–county is a city and county that have been merged into one unified jurisdiction. As such, it is simultaneously a city, which is a municipal corporation; and a county, which is an administrative division of a state.


    As posted in the above mentioned thread... If you aren't in Denver City/County- OC all day. If you are- don't.

    Edited for this follow up- These are "neighborhoods" inside of the Denver County lines. These are not to be mistaken as separate cities/towns. These are Denver County areas-
    Profiles for 16 cities, towns and other populated places in Denver County Colorado
    Denver County Cities, Towns & Census Designated Places Incorporated Places have an asterisk (*).
    Alamo Placita
    College View
    Denver*
    Montbello
    Sandown
    Other Populated Places in Denver County (Neighborhoods, Subdivisions & Settlements) Bear Valley
    Bear Valley Heights
    Five Points
    Highland Park
    Lakeside
    Ruby Hill
    University Hills
    University Park
    Vine Street Houses
    Wellshire
    Westside Neighborhood

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    Thanks cscitney, I grew up in the metro area, but moved away a couple years ago at 19. I didn't really understand the laws and I had no clue about things like this.

    I was curious because when, for instance, you write a letter to someone who lives in unincorporated Adams county you will write:

    Joe Shmoe
    6000 Federal BLVD
    Denver, Co.
    8(whatever)

    Even though it's not in Denver county, because the name is attached to the address I just wanted to make sure that I was going to be okay when I carried at my buddy's shop and the gas station near there.

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    Similarly, Zack, my Lakewood city mailing address is Denver city because my zip code is 80232. I'm definitely in Lakewood, Jefferson County. I have everything come to me in Denver city address if the label has been automatically filled out by computer.

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    Just curious, what county or city is DIA considered to be in?

    -desettle
    ”This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!” ~Adolph Hitler, 1935, on The Weapons Act of Nazi Germany

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    DIA is built on land annexed for the purpose by the City and County of Denver.

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    Anubis wrote:
    DIA is built on land annexed for the purpose by the City and County of Denver.
    So would that mean that OC is illegal there?


    ”This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!” ~Adolph Hitler, 1935, on The Weapons Act of Nazi Germany

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    desettle wrote:
    Anubis wrote:
    DIA is built on land annexed for the purpose by the City and County of Denver.
    So would that mean that OC is illegal there?

    OC is illegal there, yes....it is Denver city property.
    One day your life is going to flash before your eyes, make it worth watching.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Let's make this simple:

    You may open carry inany county or municipality in Colorado exceptDenver.

    Rules of thumb:

    1. Avoid Denver!

    2. If you transit Denver, it's ok to transport in your vehicle.

    3. If you visit Denver, just be dang sure you leave it in the glovebox!

    4. If you have a Colorado CC permit, just CC anywhere in and around Denver.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    since9 wrote:
    Let's make this simple:Â*

    You may open carry inÂ*any county or municipality in Colorado exceptÂ*Denver
    This has been discussed before in other threads, but some municipalities (other than Denver) claim the authority to restrict open carry based on the Meyer State Supreme Court decision. I don't believe there is case law on this, so, in my opinion, you could unwittingly become a test case.

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    Then there's probably 2 types on our section of this board- Type 1. Clear cut 100% OC anywhere but Denver. Type 2. Muddy waters surrounding OC- suspicious of local restrictions- continues to look to Meyers decision for guidance.

    Type 1 is looking to the future-
    Type 2 is looking to the past-

    Type 1 carries most confidently and Type 2 carries cautiously. Type 2 may undergo periods of paranoia in association with OC.

    Personally perhaps I am a Type 1.5

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    this is the map i use, you can zoom in to look at the exact streets where the boundaries lie

    http://www.zipcodesandmore.com/county-map.aspx?county=08031


    i have my pistol in a holster mounted to the center console. i keep it there at all times when driving, even when i am in denver. I also keep the CRS relevant to vehicle transport in the glove box. its not against the law to have your pistol visible in your car, even in denver, and if its ever an issue with the cops, i am prepared to demonstrate that.

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    Thanks for all the information guys. I've checked the maps and it *appears* that where I am carrying when in the metro area is, in fact, legal. Everywhere I was thinking it was off-limits it appears it is.

    Thanks Bomber, I'll keep the CRS (and probably more) on me from now on... It could prove useful in a sticky situation with a LEO that doesn't understand the law.

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    Dynamite Rabbit wrote:
    (other than Denver) claim the authority to restrict open carry based on the Meyer State Supreme Court decision. I don't believe there is case law on this, so, in my opinion, you could unwittingly become a test case.
    I'm sorry Dynamite Rabbit- but I believe you have completely mistaken the original context in which the Meyers decision was made. Please visit http://www.rmgo.org/alerts/2004-denverruling.htm

    Back to the basics- Open Carry is protected under Article II Section 13 of Colorado's Constitution.

    It was Denver City/County (remember they are a unified jurisdiction)

    VS

    State of Colorado


    Again it was the city/county filing against the State- Nobody was a "Test Case". Our state has full preemptive laws that we know stand against all, but Denver. If, later, it is declared that another city is entitled to the same Home Rule "rights" that guide Denver, we will worry about it. We'll cross that bridge then. Nobody's going to go to jail and go to court only to have the DA declare his city Home Rule for the first time ever-ever and request the guy goes to jail. That would be a joke and everyone knows that is not how real life happens.

    Please let me know if I, in fact, have it backwards.

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    cscitney87 wrote:
    Dynamite Rabbit wrote:Â*
    (other than Denver) claim the authority to restrict open carry based on the Meyer State Supreme Court decision. I don't believe there is case law on this, so, in my opinion, you could unwittingly become a test case.
    I'm sorry Dynamite Rabbit- but I believe you have completely mistaken the original context in which the Meyers decision was made. ... No offense but stop trying to scare people- it's uncalled for.
    No offense, but who are you to claim that I'm trying to scare people? You might want to watch the blanket statements about legal matters.

    I have a letter from the Longmont City Attorney, in reply to my letter questioning a City of Longmont ordinance banning all guns in city parks.

    I quote:

    "Dear Dynamite Rabbit,

    Thank you for your correspondence of May 7, 2009, expressing your concern over signs posted in the St. Vrain Greenway providing notice that it is unlawful to possess firearms and similar items in the greenway pursuant to Longmont Municipal Code Section 13.20.020 A 18. It appears that you believe that C.R.S. 29-11.7-103 prohibits the City from enacting such an ordinance, and therefore it should be struck from the L.M.C. For the reasons that follow, the City's position is that state statute specifically authorizes municipalities to prohibit the possession of firearms in its parks, and therefore, citizens may not lawfully possess firearms in the St. Vrain Greenway, or any other of the areas identified in L.M.C Section 13.20.010. [city parks].

    [Quote of 29-11.7-104 omitted]

    Under the plain language of this statute, local governments are granted the authority to prohibit firearms in specific areas, and L.M.C. Section 13.20.020 A 18 is a lawful exercise of that authority. Furthermore, the City posts signs giving notice of the firearm prohibition to comply with the requirements of C.R.S. 29-11.7-104. In summary, I see nothing improper in the ordinance or the posting of signs in the St. Vrain Greenway.

    With respect to C.R.S. 29-11.7-103, a Denver District Court judge has ruled that statute is an unconstitutional infringement on a home rule city's authority to prohibit the open carrying of firearms in its parks because that is an issue of exclusive local control. City and County of Denver v. State of Colorado, Case No. 03 CV 3809. That decision was left standing by the Colorado Supreme Court's decision at 139 P.3d 635 (Colo. 2006). Therefore, the City's position is that L.M.C Section 13.20.020A 18 does not violate C.R.S. 29-11.7-103.

    Sincerely,
    Eugene Mei
    City Attorney"

    To summarize, the City of Longmont (and surely other home rule cities) claims that the Meyer decision DOES authorize them to regulate open carry. I am aware that the City absolutely cannot prohibit concealed carry -- an issue he skirted.

    Sounds to me like the City of Longmont believes that they can arrest you for carrying in a park. Don't think you should be so confident in your assertions...

  17. #17
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    Your letter doesn't say anything that hasn't already been said.

    Again, nobody will become a "test case" and get thrown into jail for open carrying in Longmont, or anywhere else except Denver. Sorry. I might add; members of our forum often open carry in Longmont. This is nothing new- before and after the Meyer's decision.

    Our friend Centsi put this issue to rest in the last thread that you used to state this Longmont letter open carry issue

    OC in Telluride, and any other municipality outside Denver, is legal IMHO, and here's why: The Meyers decision relied on Denver's special circumstance in deciding that OC was a matter of local concern, specifically Denver's population density:
    However, I agree with the City's argument that open carrying is a matter of purely local concern, at least insofar as Denver is concerned. Denver is by far the most densely populated area of Colorado.
    No other city can claim the same status. Had the decision read, " I agree with the City's argument that open carrying is a matter of purely local concern", without the caveat, "at least insofar as Denver is concerned." that might be a different story. Obviously most of us know that OC is legal throughout ALL of Colorado because 13A protects it, and that 13A is a "fundamental" right regardless of what the CO courts say. They might even recognize that now in light of Heller, or be forced to do so in the near future because of a related case.

    In any case, other municipalities cannot use the Meyers decision to justify an OC ban.


    Last edited on Fri Aug 21st, 2009 02:00 pm by centsi


    One more thing: Any municipality with a population of 2,000 or more can get a state charter as a "Home Rule" municipality.

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