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Civilian/LEO training vs Military Training.

Civilian/LEO training VS. Military training

  • Civilian/LEO

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Military

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Both

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

Michigander

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I've done very little organized training, other than martial arts. Mostly my "training" has just been doing things like shoot/don't shoot drills, as well as shooting one handed with either hand, reloading with one hand, and doing all of this from different positions of cover. I've never really seen much need for anything further than that.

Although, I do have tremendous respect for modern military tactics. I read what I think was the Marine scouting and patrolling manual. Very well thought out strategies.
 

zigziggityzoo

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All of my training is civilian/LEO, because that's the type of scenario I am likely to encounter.

Military style training doesn't do me much good for grocery getting at Meijer.
 

wardog6d

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Thats why I posted the thread. Personal choice/preferance is what I was looking for. Basicly the choice to take a defensive (Civilian/LEO) approach or an Offensive (Military) approach. The military doctrine is unwavering where civilian tactics are more likely to be adjusted. Thetraining of a hybridsystemto incorperate both offensive and defense posture's dependant oncertain situations is what I am interested in.
 

Evil Creamsicle

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Well, based on that information I would opt for a defensive mindset, with offensive strategies.

"the best defense is a good offense"

basically, preserve yourself, and try to avoid the encounter, but if you have to drop him, drop him, and drop him fast and permanently.
 

RSF

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So the question is what are differances?



I have trained underand in all 3 types mentioned here.

and can say this all the answers are way off so far.

Evil is pretty darn close though..
 

wardog6d

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Ooopss misread your comment. Whats the difference? Commonly most Civilian/LEO is of a defensive posture.Most of the military tactics are offensive as written by the doctrine. Militarydoctrine isn't manipulated by personal preference. Civilian training is. Some offensive tactics have been introduced in recent years for LEO's.

I haven't found many CPL trainers that host Offensive tactical training nor even use the word. Do you? Hmmm looks like it states Defensive on the website you promote...


Someone that has had training in all the groups would/should know this difference. Especially a trainer.


1980's 1970's &Vietnam era need not apply. This is in regards to this day &age training not what you learned "Back in the Day"

Rock heads, Rerod, Green wire and duct tape need not apply.
 

RSF

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wardog6d wrote:
Ooopss misread your comment. Whats the difference? Commonly most Civilian/LEO is of a defensive posture.Most of the military tactics are offensive as written by the doctrine. Some offensive tactics have been introduced in recent years for LEO's.

I havent found any CPL trainers that host Offensive tactical training nor even use the word. Do you? Hmmm looks like it states Defensive on the website you promote...


Someone that has had training in all the groups would/should know this difference. Especially a trainer.


1980's 1970's &vietnam era need not apply. This is in regards to this day &age training not what you learned "Back in the Day"

Rock heads, Rerod, Green wire and duct tape need not apply.

Not always true we have had and explained for the past 10+years how and when and why to go on the so called offensive a lot of defensive training is offenisve so to speak.
My question is what are the differances in the training and techniques being taught.. since i have trained all the above and been trained by all the above.
I would love to hear the other thoughts from those that haveACTUALLY trained or been trained inproper TTPs of all 3 named above?
My website is a name the content of what we teach has been noted world wide actually andvery little differance between defensive and offensive
the issue with CPL trainers are they arent trained alot of them, in real TTp
or are they allowed to teach it or anything they could get yelled at for....un PC
We teach people to be effective and efficent in the situations we train them for .
 

wardog6d

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RSF wrote:
wardog6d wrote:
Ooopss misread your comment. Whats the difference? Commonly most Civilian/LEO is of a defensive posture.Most of the military tactics are offensive as written by the doctrine. Some offensive tactics have been introduced in recent years for LEO's.

I havent found any CPL trainers that host Offensive tactical training nor even use the word. Do you? Hmmm looks like it states Defensive on the website you promote...


Someone that has had training in all the groups would/should know this difference. Especially a trainer.


1980's 1970's &vietnam era need not apply. This is in regards to this day &age training not what you learned "Back in the Day"

Rock heads, Rerod, Green wire and duct tape need not apply.

Not always true we have had and explained for the past 10+years how and when and why to go on the so called offensive a lot of defensive training is offenisve so to speak.
My question is what are the differances in the training and techniques being taught.. since i have trained all the above and been trained by all the above.
I would love to hear the other thoughts from those that have actually trained or been trained inproper TTPs of all 3
My website is a name the content of what we teach has been noted world wide actually andvery little differance between defensive and offensive
I disagree there is a huge difference between being taught to retreat and to advance. Being taught to move to any available cover or to advance to cover is a big difference. Retreat=Defensive Advance=Offensive....Most trainers dont know the difference which is evident in your own statement.
 

wardog6d

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Even basic stances are different. From Civilian to Military. Which is a total lack of commitment to positive reenforcement of the long arm tactical configurations. KISS is not recognized by civilians trainers. Hi-speed low drag is coeffiecientfor real world situations.



Civilian trainers expect there student to transition from one type stance to another between various weapons this in my opinion is a lack of basic control of two seperate weapons.
 

RSF

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really what and where have you trained? and with whom.

Ill lay my list out

T1G(all current former DELTA And marine MEUSOC or RECON

Larry Vickers DELTA

10-8 SRT swat guys

Dave harrington Special forced and lead instructor at JFKwarfare center

there is my partial list i have about 5 more pages of that @#$% i can add in including the instructor schools as well.

I know the diffeance and the MINDSET and what i teach and have been taught

you arent really getting it. whom teaches retreating> and falling back vs forward agressive movement have you trained with me? have you know anyone that has?



really what stance? are different

since we teach more aggresive action than whatyou think you know you are way off judging without knowing again what is your training background and whom and when were.
 

Michigander

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RSF wrote:
and can say this all the answers are way off so far.

Evil is pretty darn close though..
A- The thread topic is vague, was kind of hard to figure out the point.

B- I see almost nothing the handgun classes on your home page list doing that I don't already do in my own practice.

C- I have known Evil for many years, and taught him much of what he knows.

And by the way, why is it you guys don't like Serpa's?
 

Michigander

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autosurgeon wrote:
BC if you hook your finger when drawing you can ND.
Are there verified cases of experienced people doing that?

I prefer Safariland hood holsters, but that never struck me as being much of an issue when I've tried Serpas out.
 

SpringerXDacp

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The same thing can easily be done on my Blade-Tech, plus I have that friggn' retention strap to contend with...the one that doesn't work as advertised after you've had it for a day or two.
 

RSF

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Michigander wrote:
RSF wrote:
and can say this all the answers are way off so far.

Evil is pretty darn close though..
A- The thread topic is vague, was kind of hard to figure out the point.

B- I see almost nothing the handgun classes on your home page list doing that I don't already do in my own practice.

C- I have known Evil for many years, and taught him much of what he knows.

And by the way, why is it you guys don't like Serpa's?
A correct thats why i asked
B really how do you know your doing it right or it can be improved on and how does it work under stress and pressure i have alot of training and practice time yet i still go and do so ? glad your up to speed.
Who taught you? to teach him?
serpas LOL well let see we have seen no less than 3 NDs with them in various classes i have personally witnessed 1 GSW from them as well as having 4 documneted casses that i can personally verify of malfucntioning holsters locking guns in place, as well as ripping one apart in weapons retion class and breaking the paddle from the body.. plus many other cases i have heard from very reputable people
and per our insurance carrier and others that i trust and have trained with its a nogo ... if a person really want to use there serpa then so be it they sign an extra waiver after being instructed on its use once again and a witness to that fact. so on and so on...
since one has offerd up any of there training history so be it no sweat enjoy guys. im done here.
 

autosurgeon

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Michigander wrote:
autosurgeon wrote:
BC if you hook your finger when drawing you can ND.
Are there verified cases of experienced people doing that?

I prefer Safariland hood holsters, but that never struck me as being much of an issue when I've tried Serpas out.

According to RSF there are... I don't have one myself just tellin ya what he has said.
 

RSF

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we have seen it we have pictures we have police reports. pretty simple everybody says its trigger finger yadda yadda

when some of those same people were pressed they failed one of the ND's was a regular Idpa shooter whom had his oops



there is a differance between range practice and training to save your ass.
 

SpringerXDacp

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Well when you think about it, is there really such a thing as a fool-proof holster and fool-proof gun owner? As far as durability, I haven't seen a holster that can not be ripped apart ifthe determination is present.
 
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