PC 626 and 626.9

PincheOgro1 · Feb 15, 2010

imported post

camsoup wrote:

PincheOgro1 wrote:

Gundude wrote:

b1ack5mith wrote:

Can we not carry within 100' of a bus stop either!?

See, its LEGAL to carry a gun in CA... they just make it nearly impossible to NOT break any laws!

Click to expand...

It seems that what they tried to do. I lock up my weapon till I get to my destination, and then arm myself.

Click to expand...

Sir PC 626 states that you cannot be within 100 ft of a school bus stop carrying "during school hours", but PC 626.9 does not mention bus stops, only schools.

Click to expand...

626 doesn't mention anything about carrying. It only defines what a "safe school zone" is.

626.9 is the gun free zone

yeah, you're right. But why do they even bother to define anything in PC 626. It is not used anywhere else in the section, other than in the definition?

Diesel-n-Lead · Feb 15, 2010

imported post

PincheOgro1 wrote:

camsoup wrote:

PincheOgro1 wrote:

Gundude wrote:

b1ack5mith wrote:

Can we not carry within 100' of a bus stop either!?

See, its LEGAL to carry a gun in CA... they just make it nearly impossible to NOT break any laws!

Click to expand...

It seems that what they tried to do. I lock up my weapon till I get to my destination, and then arm myself.

Click to expand...

Sir PC 626 states that you cannot be within 100 ft of a school bus stop carrying "during school hours", but PC 626.9 does not mention bus stops, only schools.

Click to expand...

626 doesn't mention anything about carrying. It only defines what a "safe school zone" is.

626.9 is the gun free zone

Click to expand...

yeah, you're right. But why do they even bother to define anything in PC 626. It is not used anywhere else in the section, other than in the definition?

Pertaining to the School bus stop provision, note that the code requires that it be both designated by the school district and marked as such:

Code:

626(c)(2)(A) Within 100 feet of a bus stop, whether or not a public transit
bus stop, that has been publicly designated by the school district
as a schoolbus stop. This definition applies only if the school
district has chosen to mark the bus stop as a schoolbus stop.

As for 626(c) [where the safe school zone definition is contained] this is merely a definitions section to simplify the wording of other parts of the section.

Code:

626(c) As used in this code, the following definitions apply:

With the "providing instruction" part, I have to say that I strongly believe it is just flowery language. If it were meant to qualify a time period or schedule, it would say "while providing instruction" or "during the time it is providing instruction" as it does in 626(c)(2). Also note that if they were referencing 626(c)(2) in 626.9 the distance would be 1500ft. from the school and not the 1000ft. Albeit only during school hours.

CA_Libertarian · Feb 16, 2010

imported post

IANAL, but I'll give you some lawyer-like advice:

Read People v Overturf. Carefully reread how they disect the legislature's intent and the how different "possess" and "carry" are in the court's eyes.

Now reread 626 and 626.9.

Now imagine how the Overturf court would have a field day with legislative intent and definitions of words.

And then imagine whether you would even be able to get to appeal after what will almost certainly be a conviction at trial court...

And for the record, while I disagree with the law, I think it's abundantly clear what the legislature intended here. After all, why wouldn't theyuse the exact same (or at least highly similar) wording if they intended to convey the exact same idea?

Your only hope is that one juror will be liberty-minded enough to hang the jury and get you a mistrial.

PincheOgro1 · Mar 15, 2010

imported post

camsoup wrote:

PincheOgro1 wrote:

Gundude wrote:

b1ack5mith wrote:

Can we not carry within 100' of a bus stop either!?

See, its LEGAL to carry a gun in CA... they just make it nearly impossible to NOT break any laws!

Click to expand...

It seems that what they tried to do. I lock up my weapon till I get to my destination, and then arm myself.

Click to expand...

Sir PC 626 states that you cannot be within 100 ft of a school bus stop carrying "during school hours", but PC 626.9 does not mention bus stops, only schools.

Click to expand...

626 doesn't mention anything about carrying. It only defines what a "safe school zone" is.

626.9 is the gun free zone

That is another confusion of mine. PC 626 only defines, but if you look, I don't think the terms defined in PC626 are used anywhere else in the Chapter. (PC626-PC626.11)

Wc · Mar 16, 2010

imported post

You guys:banghead:and nowonder why that's came fromJohn D. Williams' memoofLACSD was an error forCPC 626.9.
http://www.californiaopencarry.org/memos/LASD_oc_memo.pdf

In good old days, when a kids isn't gotten trouble from school and the "Chief administrative officer"(CPC626(a)(5)(A)&(B) definitions)have no jurisdiction outside of university or college or school groundby theirpolicies and rules before them.

CPC 626 changed that to allowing theChief administrative officer to dealing with these wise kids within 1500' of "Safe School Zone".

:idea:However, the UOCer's student outsideof university or college can be expelledunder thesafe school zone unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority.

Theseus · Mar 16, 2010

imported post

Wc wrote:

You guys:banghead:and nowonder why that's came fromJohn D. Williams' memoofLACSD was an error forCPC 626.9.
http://www.californiaopencarry.org/memos/LASD_oc_memo.pdf

In good old days, when a kids isn't gotten trouble from school and the "Chief administrative officer"(CPC626(a)(5)(A)&(B) definitions)have no jurisdiction outside of university or college or school groundby theirpolicies and rules before them.

CPC 626 changed that to allowing theChief administrative officer to dealing with these wise kids within 1500' of "Safe School Zone".

:idea:However, the UOCer's student outsideof university or college can be expelledunder thesafe school zone unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority.

I believe you are off on this.

It was all in an effort to reduce crime in and around schools by students and teachers and, more specifically, the non-school related public.

This wasn't about extending an administrators control. I believe the allowance here was that an administrator could exempt people for specific and local reasons that the State could not or did not wish to contemplate. Take the example of a school in a more rural area that had no problems with firearms education by parents or NRA instructors. The local school administrator could exempt them on the local level without running afoul of the State control.

CA_Libertarian · Mar 16, 2010

imported post

aww... fell for a necro-post... where's the damn ignore button?

Wc · Mar 16, 2010

imported post

CA_Libertarian wrote:

aww... fell for a necro-post... where's the damn ignore button?

May I asked which necro-post please?:what:

Theseus · Mar 16, 2010

imported post

Wc wrote:

CA_Libertarian wrote:

aww... fell for a necro-post... where's the damn ignore button?

Click to expand...

May I asked which necro-post please?:what:

This thread was dead by near a months and you brought it back to comment on something you seem to know little to nothing about.

I am normally the last person to call troll, but you just don't seem to get it.

PincheOgro1 · Mar 16, 2010

imported post

ha ha... good one. Though I don't know what you're talking about.

CA_Libertarian · Mar 16, 2010

imported post

Wc wrote:

I thoughts that was you beside, am not asking you?

Your English is as bad as my Spanish!

Kidding aside, I'm curious: what is your primary language? How long have you been learning English?

Wc · Mar 16, 2010

imported post

CA_Libertarian wrote:

Wc wrote:

I thoughts that was you beside, am not asking you?

Click to expand...

Your English is as bad as my Spanish!

Kidding aside, I'm curious: what is your primary language? How long have you been learning English?

Bromas aparte, estoy curioso: ¿cuál es su idioma principal? ¿Cuánto tiempo has estado aprendiendo Inglés?

N6ATF · Mar 17, 2010

imported post

Wc wrote:

CA_Libertarian wrote:

Wc wrote:

I thoughts that was you beside, am not asking you?

Click to expand...

Your English is as bad as my Spanish!

Kidding aside, I'm curious: what is your primary language? How long have you been learning English?

Click to expand...

[highlight= #ebeff9" title="Kidding aside, I'm curious: what is your primary language?" closure_hashCode_e9y4lg="19]Bromas aparte, estoy curioso: ¿cuál es su idioma principal? [highlight= #fff" title="How long have you been learning English?" closure_hashCode_e9y4lg="20]¿Cuánto tiempo has estado aprendiendo Inglés?

What's with the code?

Wc · Mar 17, 2010

imported post

N6ATF wrote:

What's with the code?

Sorry, error by the Quote Post system.

PincheOgro1 · Mar 17, 2010

imported post

CA_Libertarian wrote:

IANAL, but I'll give you some lawyer-like advice:

Read People v Overturf. Carefully reread how they disect the legislature's intent and the how different "possess" and "carry" are in the court's eyes.

Now reread 626 and 626.9.

Now imagine how the Overturf court would have a field day with legislative intent and definitions of words.

And then imagine whether you would even be able to get to appeal after what will almost certainly be a conviction at trial court...

And for the record, while I disagree with the law, I think it's abundantly clear what the legislature intended here. After all, why wouldn't theyuse the exact same (or at least highly similar) wording if they intended to convey the exact same idea?

Your only hope is that one juror will be liberty-minded enough to hang the jury and get you a mistrial.

My question regarding 626 and 626.9 was why the wording difference. 626.9 Seems to duplicate what 626 says, but without the time reference.I guessIf it was during school hours you could be charged with 626. After hours 626.9, but after hours there are usually no children present, same thing with the speed limit change. I don't know any LAW ABIDING CITIZEN that would go to a school to shoot it up. I really don't think BG's give a crap about the law anyway. LOL

Decoligny · Mar 18, 2010

imported post

PincheOgro1 wrote:

camsoup wrote:

PincheOgro1 wrote:

Gundude wrote:

b1ack5mith wrote:

Can we not carry within 100' of a bus stop either!?

See, its LEGAL to carry a gun in CA... they just make it nearly impossible to NOT break any laws!

Click to expand...

It seems that what they tried to do. I lock up my weapon till I get to my destination, and then arm myself.

Click to expand...

Sir PC 626 states that you cannot be within 100 ft of a school bus stop carrying "during school hours", but PC 626.9 does not mention bus stops, only schools.

Click to expand...

626 doesn't mention anything about carrying. It only defines what a "safe school zone" is.

626.9 is the gun free zone

Click to expand...

yeah, you're right. But why do they even bother to define anything in PC 626. It is not used anywhere else in the section, other than in the definition?

I just posted this in another thread, but thought that it would be applicable here as well, as it explains exactly why the definition for "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" exists.

"SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" as defined in PC 626 is NOT the same as "SCHOOL ZONE" as defined inPC 626.9.

Each has its own seperate definition and each is applicable to only certainspecific sectionsof the Penal Code.

SAFE SCHOOL ZONE, PC 626 (c) (2) (b):

(2) "Safe school zone" means an area that encompasses any of the following places during regular school hours or within 60 minutes before or after the schoolday or 60 minutes before or after a school-sponsored activity at the schoolsite:
(A) Within 100 feet of a bus stop, whether or not a public transit bus stop, that has been publicly designated by the school district as a schoolbus stop. This definition applies only if the school district has chosen to mark the bus stop as a schoolbus stop.
(B) Within 1,500 feet of a school, as designated by the school district.

The term "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" is only defined in order to justify harsher sentencing if convicted of certain criminal activities if they occurred in the "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE". The onlyinstance other than 626 (the definition) where the term "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" is used in the entire Penal Code is here:

PC 1170.86. Upon conviction of a felony violation of Section 220, 261, 261.5, 264.1, or 266j the fact that the felony was committed within a SAFE SCHOOL ZONE, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 626, against a victim who was a pupil currently attending school, shall be considered a circumstance in aggravation in imposing a term under subdivision (b) of Section 1170.

In PC 626.9, however, the term "SCHOOL ZONE" is defined specifically, and that definition applies ONLY to PC 626.9 as stated below.

SCHOOL ZONE, PC 626.9 (e) (1):

(e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(1) "School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.

Wc · Mar 18, 2010

imported post

Decoligny wrote:

PincheOgro1 wrote:

camsoup wrote:

PincheOgro1 wrote:

Gundude wrote:

b1ack5mith wrote:

Can we not carry within 100' of a bus stop either!?

See, its LEGAL to carry a gun in CA... they just make it nearly impossible to NOT break any laws!

Click to expand...

It seems that what they tried to do. I lock up my weapon till I get to my destination, and then arm myself.

Click to expand...

Sir PC 626 states that you cannot be within 100 ft of a school bus stop carrying "during school hours", but PC 626.9 does not mention bus stops, only schools.

Click to expand...

626 doesn't mention anything about carrying. It only defines what a "safe school zone" is.

626.9 is the gun free zone

Click to expand...

yeah, you're right. But why do they even bother to define anything in PC 626. It is not used anywhere else in the section, other than in the definition?

Click to expand...

I just posted this in another thread, but thought that it would be applicable here as well, as it explains exactly why the definition for "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" exists.

"SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" as defined in PC 626 is NOT the same as "SCHOOL ZONE" as defined inPC 626.9.

Each has its own seperate definition and each is applicable to only certainspecific sectionsof the Penal Code.

SAFE SCHOOL ZONE, PC 626 (c) (2) (b):

(2) "Safe school zone" means an area that encompasses any of the following places during regular school hours or within 60 minutes before or after the schoolday or 60 minutes before or after a school-sponsored activity at the schoolsite:
(A) Within 100 feet of a bus stop, whether or not a public transit bus stop, that has been publicly designated by the school district as a schoolbus stop. This definition applies only if the school district has chosen to mark the bus stop as a schoolbus stop.
(B) Within 1,500 feet of a school, as designated by the school district.

The term "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" is only defined in order to justify harsher sentencing if convicted of certain criminal activities if they occurred in the "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE". The onlyinstance other than 626 (the definition) where the term "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" is used in the entire Penal Code is here:

PC 1170.86. Upon conviction of a felony violation of Section 220, 261, 261.5, 264.1, or 266j the fact that the felony was committed within a SAFE SCHOOL ZONE, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 626, against a victim who was a pupil currently attending school, shall be considered a circumstance in aggravation in imposing a term under subdivision (b) of Section 1170.

In PC 626.9, however, the term "SCHOOL ZONE" is defined specifically, and that definition applies ONLY to PC 626.9 as stated below.

SCHOOL ZONE, PC 626.9 (e) (1):

(e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(1) "School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.

PincheOgro1 · Mar 19, 2010

imported post

Wc wrote:

Decoligny wrote:

PincheOgro1 wrote:

camsoup wrote:

PincheOgro1 wrote:

Gundude wrote:

b1ack5mith wrote:

Can we not carry within 100' of a bus stop either!?

See, its LEGAL to carry a gun in CA... they just make it nearly impossible to NOT break any laws!

Click to expand...

It seems that what they tried to do. I lock up my weapon till I get to my destination, and then arm myself.

Click to expand...

Sir PC 626 states that you cannot be within 100 ft of a school bus stop carrying "during school hours", but PC 626.9 does not mention bus stops, only schools.

Click to expand...

626 doesn't mention anything about carrying. It only defines what a "safe school zone" is.

626.9 is the gun free zone

Click to expand...

yeah, you're right. But why do they even bother to define anything in PC 626. It is not used anywhere else in the section, other than in the definition?

Click to expand...

I just posted this in another thread, but thought that it would be applicable here as well, as it explains exactly why the definition for "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" exists.

"SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" as defined in PC 626 is NOT the same as "SCHOOL ZONE" as defined inPC 626.9.

Each has its own seperate definition and each is applicable to only certainspecific sectionsof the Penal Code.

SAFE SCHOOL ZONE, PC 626 (c) (2) (b):

(2) "Safe school zone" means an area that encompasses any of the following places during regular school hours or within 60 minutes before or after the schoolday or 60 minutes before or after a school-sponsored activity at the schoolsite:
(A) Within 100 feet of a bus stop, whether or not a public transit bus stop, that has been publicly designated by the school district as a schoolbus stop. This definition applies only if the school district has chosen to mark the bus stop as a schoolbus stop.
(B) Within 1,500 feet of a school, as designated by the school district.

The term "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" is only defined in order to justify harsher sentencing if convicted of certain criminal activities if they occurred in the "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE". The onlyinstance other than 626 (the definition) where the term "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" is used in the entire Penal Code is here:

PC 1170.86. Upon conviction of a felony violation of Section 220, 261, 261.5, 264.1, or 266j the fact that the felony was committed within a SAFE SCHOOL ZONE, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 626, against a victim who was a pupil currently attending school, shall be considered a circumstance in aggravation in imposing a term under subdivision (b) of Section 1170.

In PC 626.9, however, the term "SCHOOL ZONE" is defined specifically, and that definition applies ONLY to PC 626.9 as stated below.

SCHOOL ZONE, PC 626.9 (e) (1):

(e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(1) "School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.

Click to expand...

220= assault with intent to commit mayhem, rape, sodomy, oral copulation

261= rape

261.5=unlawful sexual intercourse with person under 18 years.

264.1=punishment when defendant acted in concert with another person to commit rape

266j providing or transporting child under 16 for purpose of lewd or lascivious acts

Wc · Mar 19, 2010

imported post

PincheOgro1 wrote:

Wc wrote:

Decoligny wrote:

PincheOgro1 wrote:

camsoup wrote:

PincheOgro1 wrote:

Gundude wrote:

b1ack5mith wrote:

Can we not carry within 100' of a bus stop either!?

See, its LEGAL to carry a gun in CA... they just make it nearly impossible to NOT break any laws!

Click to expand...

It seems that what they tried to do. I lock up my weapon till I get to my destination, and then arm myself.

Click to expand...

Sir PC 626 states that you cannot be within 100 ft of a school bus stop carrying "during school hours", but PC 626.9 does not mention bus stops, only schools.

Click to expand...

626 doesn't mention anything about carrying. It only defines what a "safe school zone" is.

626.9 is the gun free zone

Click to expand...

yeah, you're right. But why do they even bother to define anything in PC 626. It is not used anywhere else in the section, other than in the definition?

Click to expand...

I just posted this in another thread, but thought that it would be applicable here as well, as it explains exactly why the definition for "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" exists.

"SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" as defined in PC 626 is NOT the same as "SCHOOL ZONE" as defined inPC 626.9.

Each has its own seperate definition and each is applicable to only certainspecific sectionsof the Penal Code.

SAFE SCHOOL ZONE, PC 626 (c) (2) (b):

(2) "Safe school zone" means an area that encompasses any of the following places during regular school hours or within 60 minutes before or after the schoolday or 60 minutes before or after a school-sponsored activity at the schoolsite:
(A) Within 100 feet of a bus stop, whether or not a public transit bus stop, that has been publicly designated by the school district as a schoolbus stop. This definition applies only if the school district has chosen to mark the bus stop as a schoolbus stop.
(B) Within 1,500 feet of a school, as designated by the school district.

The term "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" is only defined in order to justify harsher sentencing if convicted of certain criminal activities if they occurred in the "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE". The onlyinstance other than 626 (the definition) where the term "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" is used in the entire Penal Code is here:

PC 1170.86. Upon conviction of a felony violation of Section 220, 261, 261.5, 264.1, or 266j the fact that the felony was committed within a SAFE SCHOOL ZONE, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 626, against a victim who was a pupil currently attending school, shall be considered a circumstance in aggravation in imposing a term under subdivision (b) of Section 1170.

In PC 626.9, however, the term "SCHOOL ZONE" is defined specifically, and that definition applies ONLY to PC 626.9 as stated below.

SCHOOL ZONE, PC 626.9 (e) (1):

(e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(1) "School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

220= assault with intent to commit mayhem, rape, sodomy, oral copulation

261= rape

261.5=unlawful sexual intercourse with person under 18 years.

264=rape;punishment

266j providing or transporting child under 16 for purpose of lewd or lascivious act

PincheOgro1 · Mar 20, 2010

imported post

Wc wrote:

Decoligny wrote:

PincheOgro1 wrote:

camsoup wrote:

PincheOgro1 wrote:

Gundude wrote:

b1ack5mith wrote:

Can we not carry within 100' of a bus stop either!?

See, its LEGAL to carry a gun in CA... they just make it nearly impossible to NOT break any laws!

Click to expand...

It seems that what they tried to do. I lock up my weapon till I get to my destination, and then arm myself.

Click to expand...

Sir PC 626 states that you cannot be within 100 ft of a school bus stop carrying "during school hours", but PC 626.9 does not mention bus stops, only schools.

Click to expand...

626 doesn't mention anything about carrying. It only defines what a "safe school zone" is.

626.9 is the gun free zone

Click to expand...

yeah, you're right. But why do they even bother to define anything in PC 626. It is not used anywhere else in the section, other than in the definition?

Click to expand...

I just posted this in another thread, but thought that it would be applicable here as well, as it explains exactly why the definition for "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" exists.

"SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" as defined in PC 626 is NOT the same as "SCHOOL ZONE" as defined inPC 626.9.

Each has its own seperate definition and each is applicable to only certainspecific sectionsof the Penal Code.

SAFE SCHOOL ZONE, PC 626 (c) (2) (b):

(2) "Safe school zone" means an area that encompasses any of the following places during regular school hours or within 60 minutes before or after the schoolday or 60 minutes before or after a school-sponsored activity at the schoolsite:
(A) Within 100 feet of a bus stop, whether or not a public transit bus stop, that has been publicly designated by the school district as a schoolbus stop. This definition applies only if the school district has chosen to mark the bus stop as a schoolbus stop.
(B) Within 1,500 feet of a school, as designated by the school district.

The term "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" is only defined in order to justify harsher sentencing if convicted of certain criminal activities if they occurred in the "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE". The onlyinstance other than 626 (the definition) where the term "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" is used in the entire Penal Code is here:

PC 1170.86. Upon conviction of a felony violation of Section 220, 261, 261.5, 264.1, or 266j the fact that the felony was committed within a SAFE SCHOOL ZONE, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 626, against a victim who was a pupil currently attending school, shall be considered a circumstance in aggravation in imposing a term under subdivision (b) of Section 1170.

In PC 626.9, however, the term "SCHOOL ZONE" is defined specifically, and that definition applies ONLY to PC 626.9 as stated below.

SCHOOL ZONE, PC 626.9 (e) (1):

(e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(1) "School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.

Click to expand...

It took awhile but this is the best answer to my original question.

PC 626 and 626.9

Regular Member

Regular Member

State Researcher

Regular Member

Regular Member

Founder's Club Member

State Researcher

Regular Member

Founder's Club Member

Regular Member

State Researcher

Regular Member

Banned

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member