• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Holster for 1911, for IDPA/USPSA use?

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
imported post

I'm thinking about getting back into "practical shooting" competition (IDPA/USPSA) and wondered if there were any other folks out there who did this, and what sort of holsters they would recommend for a double-stack full-size 1911 like my Para.

I'll probably just use the Serpa, but I was thinking of getting a holster without mechanical retention specifically for competition. I'll be competing in either "stock" or "Limited" class, and will not have a comp or optics on my gun.

I'm leaning toward leather, if for no other reason than it will probably wear on my finish less (with the constant holstering and unholstering of competition) than Kydex or other plastic-style units. I'm looking at something outside the waistband, preferably with a slight cant. On top of my list is the Galco Side Snap Scabbard, mainly because it's lined, and because it's a design I can get on and off without having to undo my belt...

But I DO love the speed and smoothness of my Serpa, and am looking at the Uncle Mike's kydex holsters and Blackhawk non-Serpa holsters.

So what do y'all think? I don't want to make a string of expensive experimental mistakes, and I'd appreciate any imput that other competitive shooters might have.

Thanks.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
imported post

Thanks. I think the model you pointed out is probably the same one you use with the Kimber--Galco # SSS212B...

So I have two questions for you, since you own and use it for competition.

1) how secure is it (since it doesn't have any mechanical retention like a cam or a strap), and does the tension-adjusting screw stay in adjustment well? I have a Galco 2-mag leather carrier with a sikilar adjustment screw and it works GREAT...

2) How dows it draw? It is as fast and smooth as a kydex/carbon fiber holster like a Fobus or Serpa?

Personal assessments of actual owners in the field are FAR more important to me than the crap you read on the manufacturer's website. Although, it has been my experience that EVERYTHING on Galco's website is pretty much spot-on with regards to performance and construction quality...

Thanks in advance.
 

Yard Sale

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
708
Location
Northern Nevada, ,
imported post

If you want one holster for both IDPA and USPSA then you will have to get a IDPA legal holster (which will alsobe USPSA legal). Something like the Blade Tech injection molded belt holster or Uncle Mike's Kydex (if they make a 1911/Para model) will work fine.

If you are worried about wearing the finish on your gun you can get a trigger-guard-only holster (Ghost, Limcat), which would be USPSA legal only. And avoid practicing and dry-firing, because handling your gun wears its finish.
 

GlockMeisterG21

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
637
Location
Pewaukee, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Dreamer wrote:
Thanks. I think the model you pointed out is probably the same one you use with the Kimber--Galco # SSS212B...

So I have two questions for you, since you own and use it for competition.

1) how secure is it (since it doesn't have any mechanical retention like a cam or a strap), and does the tension-adjusting screw stay in adjustment well? I have a Galco 2-mag leather carrier with a sikilar adjustment screw and it works GREAT...

2) How dows it draw? It is as fast and smooth as a kydex/carbon fiber holster like a Fobus or Serpa?

Personal assessments of actual owners in the field are FAR more important to me than the crap you read on the manufacturer's website. Although, it has been my experience that EVERYTHING on Galco's website is pretty much spot-on with regards to performance and construction quality...

Thanks in advance.
Sorry it took so long to get back to you, didn't see your reply.

1)It's as secure as it can be with only one level of retention(tension screw). Is it going to fall out if I'm running or on the move? No. As to the screw I haven't adjusted it since I got it 3 months ago.

2) The draw is not as fast as a serpa or similar kydex holster. This is simply because of the fact the leather is formed to the gun and creates friction when you draw. Kydex doesn't really "hug" the gun like molded leather does. That said I don't think it impacts the speed of my draw very much. One trick is when you get your holster put your gun in a ziploc bag and shove it in your holster. It will be tight but let it sit for a few days and it helps to break it in.

I should also tell you that this is not just my IDPA holster but also my work holster. I work for a gun shop and wear it every day. I chose it because it looked extremely comfortable and I can take it on and off without drawing my gun. This is the most comfortable holster I've ever come across.
 

shad0wfax

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,069
Location
Spokane, Washington, USA
imported post

Serpas are ok for competitions.

You really can't go wrong with Bladetech holsters though. They make some of the best entry-level to full-blown professional competition level holsters around.
 

gotm4

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
89
Location
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
imported post

Dreamer wrote:
I'm thinking about getting back into "practical shooting" competition (IDPA/USPSA) and wondered if there were any other folks out there who did this, and what sort of holsters they would recommend for a double-stack full-size 1911 like my Para.

I'll probably just use the Serpa, but I was thinking of getting a holster without mechanical retention specifically for competition. I'll be competing in either "stock" or "Limited" class, and will not have a comp or optics on my gun.

I'm leaning toward leather, if for no other reason than it will probably wear on my finish less (with the constant holstering and unholstering of competition) than Kydex or other plastic-style units. I'm looking at something outside the waistband, preferably with a slight cant. On top of my list is the Galco Side Snap Scabbard, mainly because it's lined, and because it's a design I can get on and off without having to undo my belt...

But I DO love the speed and smoothness of my Serpa, and am looking at the Uncle Mike's kydex holsters and Blackhawk non-Serpa holsters.

So what do y'all think? I don't want to make a string of expensive experimental mistakes, and I'd appreciate any imput that other competitive shooters might have.

Thanks.
For competition take a look at the Comp-Tac or Blade-Tech holsters.
The Galco Side Snap Scabbard is pretty nice too.
I also like the Safariland custom fit.

I'd be very careful with the Serpa holsters.
I've seen two people accidently ND luckily not injured when drawing from them. These were with Glocks.
What happens is when drawing at speed if you don't depress the button well enough and pull up on the handgun and it doesn't come out.
Then they pull up on the handgun again while still pressing even more firmly on the button and as the handgun comes up their trigger finger makes it into the triggerguard and then boom!
For retention holsters I like the Safariland ALS which is in the same price range as the Blackhawk Serpa. At work I wear a Safariland ALS with Glock 22 Gen 4.
 

Damiansar-15

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
199
Location
Mercer Island, WA
imported post

I agree that Comp-tac/Bladetech are great choices, although I prefer Comp-tac for the fit (nice click when pistol is seated properly) and finish on pistols does not wear down like most Kydex holsters. I am not into jewelry guns, but do like the finishes to last, since rust can be an issue down in Houston. I have visited both companies in-person and they both have amazing staff with a customer-centric view on service/quality.

I am also biased towards Comp-tac since they are made in Texas, but Bladetech offers thigh rigs, where as Comp-tac does not. For most shoot-scoot situations, Comp-tac rules in my view...
 

Laramie

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
14
Location
Helena, Montana, USA
imported post

For USPSA I really prefer the dropped and off-set holsters from Blade-tech. I doubt they are IDPA legal though.

If you only want 1 holster for 2 jobs, I'd say just get a Comp-Tac or Blade-Tech belt holster.
 

gotm4

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
89
Location
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
imported post

Laramie wrote:
For USPSA I really prefer the dropped and off-set holsters from Blade-tech. I doubt they are IDPA legal though.

If you only want 1 holster for 2 jobs, I'd say just get a Comp-Tac or Blade-Tech belt holster.
Dropped and offset is only legal for women in IDPA, due to body shape (hips).
 

shad0wfax

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,069
Location
Spokane, Washington, USA
imported post

gotm4 wrote:
Laramie wrote:
For USPSA I really prefer the dropped and off-set holsters from Blade-tech. I doubt they are IDPA legal though.

If you only want 1 holster for 2 jobs, I'd say just get a Comp-Tac or Blade-Tech belt holster.
Dropped and offset is only legal for women in IDPA, due to body shape (hips).
Yeah, my mom has to use a dropped offset holster, which is why I'm familiar with Blade-Tech stuff. Her trying to draw in a serpa is not even safe...
 

davegran

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
1,563
Location
Cassville Area -Twelve Miles From Anything, Wiscon
imported post

Dreamer wrote:
I'm thinking about getting back into "practical shooting" competition (IDPA/USPSA) and wondered if there were any other folks out there who did this, and what sort of holsters they would recommend for a double-stack full-size 1911 like my Para.

I'll probably just use the Serpa, but I was thinking of getting a holster without mechanical retention specifically for competition....

But I DO love the speed and smoothness of my Serpa, and am looking at the Uncle Mike's kydex holsters and Blackhawk non-Serpa holsters.
I shoot IDPA and I think the answer to your question depends on why you want to get back into practical shooting. Here are some that occur to me; you supply your own reasons:
  1. Want to develop your speed and skill with your carry weapon.
  2. Want to compete and win.
  3. Want to meet other shooters in a social sense.
  4. etc.
And you may have some conditions that must be met:
  1. Want to preserve the finish on my weapon.
  2. Not concerned with finish wear.
  3. Want a good looking rig to show off my pistol.
  4. etc.
My personal objectives are to develop my defensive shooting skills including gun handling and speed with accuracy, so I use my carry weapon and carry holster to develop that muscle memory. My holster happens to be Kydex, but I'm not concerned about finish wear as my 1911 seems to acquire patina and character from use. :)

My suggestion is to start out with your Serpa and re-evaluate after three or four matches.

Dave
 

Damiansar-15

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
199
Location
Mercer Island, WA
imported post

Laramie wrote:
For USPSA I really prefer the dropped and off-set holsters from Blade-tech. I doubt they are IDPA legal though.

If you only want 1 holster for 2 jobs, I'd say just get a Comp-Tac or Blade-Tech belt holster.
I never understood why normal-sizedmen want a dropped/off-set rig for IDPA. If you are point shooting cowboy-style or using a race gun/rig, I get it, but in IDPA, one still has to draw and present the pistol to eye leave in order to get a sight picture and shoot accurately. A dropped holster increases the distance from the drawing position to shooting position, yes? I don't know about you, but I learned that increasing the distance between point A to B also increases time when all other elements remain the same... Distance also gets magnified when scenarios often require the shooter to start with their hands above their head. One's hand would have to travel further to get to a lower positioned holster and then return up to the sight picture...
 

davegran

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
1,563
Location
Cassville Area -Twelve Miles From Anything, Wiscon
imported post

Damiansar-15 wrote:
Laramie wrote:
For USPSA I really prefer the dropped and off-set holsters from Blade-tech. I doubt they are IDPA legal though.

If you only want 1 holster for 2 jobs, I'd say just get a Comp-Tac or Blade-Tech belt holster.
I never understood why normal-sizedmen want a dropped/off-set rig for IDPA. ....
It would also present a problem when the course of fire stipulated that you draw from concealment... you'd need a pretty long garment to cover your weapon!
wj9v0g.jpg


Dave
 

Yard Sale

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
708
Location
Northern Nevada, ,
imported post

I never understood why normal-sizedmen want a dropped/off-set rig for IDPA. If you are point shooting cowboy-style or using a race gun/rig, I get it, but in IDPA, one still has to draw and present the pistol to eye leave in order to get a sight picture and shoot accurately. A dropped holster increases the distance from the drawing position to shooting position, yes? I don't know about you, but I learned that increasing the distance between point A to B also increases time when all other elements remain the same... Distance also gets magnified when scenarios often require the shooter to start with their hands above their head. One's hand would have to travel further to get to a lower positioned holster and then return up to the sight picture...

Dropped: Puts the handgun's grip in a position that it is faster and easier to grasp. A higher position causes a too-acute elbow bend and may require some torso lean.

Offset: Extends the handgun's grip away from the body so that it is faster and easier to grasp. If the grip is too close against the body, the thumb tends to grab shirt and the torso requires some lean to create a gap.

The D-O holster position decreases the distance from the initial hand position to the gun, which is a huge part of draw speed. The distance from the holster to eye level isn't so important. In order to make a fast and accurate first shot, it's necessary to slow the gun down when presenting itto the target so you can acquire the front sight (beyond point shooting distance).

The proof is in the pudding. D-O holsters are capable of sub-second draws.
 

Damiansar-15

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
199
Location
Mercer Island, WA
imported post

The proof is in the pudding. D-O holsters are capable of sub-second draws.
The D-O holster position decreases the distance from the initial hand position to the gun

You have any empirical research to support pudding theory, because I believe sub-second draws are also possible with normal kydex holsters? I disagree that a D-O rig decreases distance, per my argument above.

I supposean over weight shooter that is not limber might have an advantage based on your Dropped and Off-set value propositions. For me, my PACT timer confirms a properly placed kydex holster ona quality gunbelt is faster than some of the dropped rigs I've played with over the years. Might be that I am used to this placement, but I believe others in the industry would agree with me, e.g. Comp-tac.

If it works for you great, I just don't think this type of rig is normally promoted by folks in theholster industryas a superior way to carry/present one's pistol.
 

MrOverlay

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
186
Location
Olive Hill, Kentucky, USA
imported post

For USPSA Single Stack Division, the holster must carry the firearm so that the entire front strap of the gun, down to the trigger guard is at or above the top of the belt. The trigger must be covered when holstered, and if it has any retaining devices such as straps they must be in place at the start signal.

Gary
 

Yard Sale

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
708
Location
Northern Nevada, ,
imported post

Damiansar-15 wrote:
You have any empirical research to support pudding theory, because I believe sub-second draws are also possible with normal kydex holsters?  I disagree that a D-O rig decreases distance, per my argument above. 

...

If it works for you great, I just don't think this type of rig is normally promoted by folks in the holster industry as a superior way to carry/present one's pistol.

I never said a "normal kydex" holster (whatever that is) or any other holster was not capable of a sub-second draw. By asking for empirical evidence (really? LOL) you are challenging my assertion that DOHs aren't capable of sub-second draws. So I'll turn it around: Do you have any empirical evidence they aren't? I'm sure Mr. Overlay has witnessed a few. (Hi, Gary.)

I wasn't addressing the industry's marketing efforts for promoting holsters. I was addressing your lack of understanding of why some people desire such holsters for competition.
 

Damiansar-15

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
199
Location
Mercer Island, WA
imported post

I am not challenging you that a drop/kicked out holster is incapable of sub-second draws (some shooters can do this with leg holsters, as well), I am arguing that for normal men, there is not an advantage to this type of rig for daily carry, IDPA, etc... and potentially causes a disadvantage of speed, agility, concealment, etc... Use a tape measure to prove my point on the distance.
Per my previous post, I get it that a pear-shaped men with a limited range of motion might have a faster draw with droped/kick-out holster; you win on that point. Although, I would also suspect, that most of the top schools/teachers in the industry, e.g. Clint Smith, John Farnam, etc... would still prefer holsters for defensive carry/shooting to not be a dropped version, and would encourage students to gain flexibility, lose weight, etc... in order to achieve a proper draw and presentation...
 

joeamt

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
211
Location
Cape Cod, MA
imported post

Dreamer wrote:
I'm thinking about getting back into "practical shooting" competition (IDPA/USPSA) and wondered if there were any other folks out there who did this, and what sort of holsters they would recommend for a double-stack full-size 1911 like my Para.

I'll probably just use the Serpa, but I was thinking of getting a holster without mechanical retention specifically for competition. I'll be competing in either "stock" or "Limited" class, and will not have a comp or optics on my gun.

I'm leaning toward leather, if for no other reason than it will probably wear on my finish less (with the constant holstering and unholstering of competition) than Kydex or other plastic-style units. I'm looking at something outside the waistband, preferably with a slight cant. On top of my list is the Galco Side Snap Scabbard, mainly because it's lined, and because it's a design I can get on and off without having to undo my belt...

But I DO love the speed and smoothness of my Serpa, and am looking at the Uncle Mike's kydex holsters and Blackhawk non-Serpa holsters.

So what do y'all think? I don't want to make a string of expensive experimental mistakes, and I'd appreciate any imput that other competitive shooters might have.

Thanks.

I have this: http://www.rescomp.co.za/pWSMIIMODSPEC/WSM-II-Holster---Model-Specific.aspx



I love it! It firmly retains my 1911 untill I decide to draw it. The best part: NO HOLSTER WEAR. Another plus: customizable to where you want it to hang and how.
 
Top